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Feminist Bookstore in Istanbul
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50.       xkirstyx
363 posts
 08 Jan 2008 Tue 10:20 pm

I think the point being made is that it hasn't really balanced out in certain areas. We own 5 shops, my husband and I. Altough the businesses are owned 50/50, He does the more physical work in the shops, while I do the books etc at home. I prefer to be home keeping the house nice and looking after my son. So many people think I am being made to stay at home because my husband is Turkish. Or that I am not really 'meeting my potential' by working more at home. When actually, I feel I am. I shouldn't be made to feel like I'm 'copping out' because I chose to stay home. The point of having equal rights is so that we do have choices isn't it?

51.       Aslan
1070 posts
 08 Jan 2008 Tue 10:44 pm

Quoting xkirstyx:

I think the point being made is that it hasn't really balanced out in certain areas. We own 5 shops, my husband and I. Altough the businesses are owned 50/50, He does the more physical work in the shops, while I do the books etc at home. I prefer to be home keeping the house nice and looking after my son. So many people think I am being made to stay at home because my husband is Turkish. Or that I am not really 'meeting my potential' by working more at home. When actually, I feel I am. I shouldn't be made to feel like I'm 'copping out' because I chose to stay home. The point of having equal rights is so that we do have choices isn't it?



I don´t know if that was the point Alameda was trying to make... ...but I get your point, xkirstyx. I agree that having equal rights is about having the same choices and be free to choose.
But I also think that there are more complexity to add to the subject. When we make our free choices - how free are those choices? How tied to cultural expectations or the time trends are our choices? I am not really arguing with you about your individual case but in general. I.e. I am swedish and we have paternity leave for a year when having kids. The year is to be shared between the parents but the couple can choose how to use it except for a couple of months that are reserved for each of the parent and can´t be shared. So both parents are free to choose, right, but mainly the mother takes the majority of days... Why is that? On an individual basis we can find many reasons, but if we look at it on a group level we will see that there are reasons due to the structures in society that make women and men choose like this. I don´t know if I make myself clear. I am not arguing against you, only sharing one perspective of the topic that interests me.

52.       xkirstyx
363 posts
 08 Jan 2008 Tue 11:21 pm

As far as women looking after the children more, I think some things society and laws cannot change. I believe men and women are built differently genetically. For example, men are generally stronger physically, women can be more nurturing and of course each sex has more qualities, I am just using these as examples. Since I gave birth to my son I have been grateful to be a woman. To have had the experience of pregnancy, and giving birth. Even feeding him from my own body! There is a bond there from these experiences that is amazing. And women naturally have the maternal instincts ( most of them anyway lol). Men and women are different, and using these differences , such as women spending more time looking after child, or the man opening the lid of the jar of jam that is stuck on, are a natural good use of using the differences, I don't think it is necessarily being sexist.

53.       alameda
3499 posts
 08 Jan 2008 Tue 11:51 pm

Aslan, kafesteki kus and xkirstyx,

What the answer is, I don't know, but I'm looking.

I'm still going through the reevaluation of just what it means to be a "liberated" woman. I try to look at life and what it offers in a realistic and practical manner.

After all the purpose of working is to be able to afford to purchase what you need to live. We work to live, not live to work.

In living our lives we have an outer and an inner. Bread winning (to me) is part of the "outer", that has a fixed value. Making the bread is part of the inner. IOW someone has to care about the home and make it healthy for body and soul. That is something that is priceless.
Of course you can hire a nanny, cook and maid, but do they really care about your well being, or is it a for wages position for them? If your child spends hours with someone who only is interested in the wages, but spends hours with your child, what does that teach your child?

I've seen nannies with their charges during the day. The children, while not abused, are not really being cared for. They are pushed around in their strollers, sometimes parked while the nannies visit with their friends. The nanny leaves and they get another one. Many times the children learn the language and accent of the nanny before learning the parents language. I question the value of that situation. I want my children to learn my values and language, not those of someone else. I would want to see my child's first steps, hear their first words and be active in the development.

Preparation of healthy meals entails researching the nutritional values and food combination effects and using the best cooking methods (no microwave)so as to retain the food values. It isn't fast and easy. There are a lot of simple home remedies women used to use. Most have been forgotten. An example: a little bit of vinegar or baking soda in a glass of water is great for indigestion. Now we get antacids instead. An eyewash of tea is an excellent eyewash.

My grandmother had her own home based business. Her business was run in such a way that it didn't interfere with her family. I think what we now have is women being put into a mold that doesn't fit very well. Maybe it's time to take another look.

Certainly, every female should be educated, should be able to be self supporting, should know how to defend herself.

54.       xkirstyx
363 posts
 08 Jan 2008 Tue 11:56 pm

Quoting alameda:



(no microwave)



.....lol

55.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 09 Jan 2008 Wed 12:14 am

so true, Alameda! Excellent reply.

56.       alameda
3499 posts
 09 Jan 2008 Wed 12:22 am

Quoting xkirstyx:

Quoting alameda:



(no microwave)



.....lol



microwave

"How do microwave ovens work?

In a microwave oven, food is cooked by exposing it to microwave radiation."

The above statement, and article it is from, do not make me comfortable with being around, or preparing my food in a microwave oven.

Just my choice...

57.       alameda
3499 posts
 09 Jan 2008 Wed 12:30 am

Quoting xkirstyx:

I think the point being made is that it hasn't really balanced out in certain areas. We own 5 shops, my husband and I. Altough the businesses are owned 50/50, He does the more physical work in the shops, while I do the books etc at home. I prefer to be home keeping the house nice and looking after my son. So many people think I am being made to stay at home because my husband is Turkish. Or that I am not really 'meeting my potential' by working more at home. When actually, I feel I am. I shouldn't be made to feel like I'm 'copping out' because I chose to stay home. The point of having equal rights is so that we do have choices isn't it?



Right! And you should not feel you have copped out. Doing the books at home is something I would go crazy doing. You should not devalue your contribution one bit. It sounds to me like you ARE pursuing your potential.

58.       xkirstyx
363 posts
 09 Jan 2008 Wed 12:35 am

Thankyou

59.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 09 Jan 2008 Wed 12:40 am

To debate whether or not men and women should be equal, let us strip the issue from superfuluous add-ons like politics, human rights, equal opportunity, morality, discrimination etc. and look at the issue in its basic form. Just man and woman.

Cavewoman gives his caveman a cavebaby. She is temporarily immobile for obvious reasons. Caveman goes out to hunt and collect wood for cavewoman and cavebaby. Sometimes he has to wander for miles.

After days of hunting and collecting wood, caveman is tired, bruised and spent out. On the way back, another cavewoman waves a friendly welcoming hand. She looks stunning and is obviously not immobile. Her cave looks very promising and eliminates a further 2-days walk.

The fact that many of us are around today is proof enough that many of the cavemen did not yield to such temptations and found his way back to his own cavewoman and his own cavebaby. He knew fully that he would not find a heated cave, ready food, a mobile cavewoman or a silent cavebaby.

What quality of his own cavewoman, do you think, drives our caveman to his own cave? What would happen if all cavemen stopped by the first new cavewoman beckoning him? Do you think the caveman would ever return to his home cave, if the waiting cavewoman there was a screaming feminist?

God bless the feminine women !


60.       alameda
3499 posts
 09 Jan 2008 Wed 12:44 am

Quoting AlphaF:

To debate whether or not men and women should be equal, let us strip the issue from superfuluous add-ons like politics, human rights, equal opportunity, morality, discrimination etc. and look at the issue in its basic form. Just man an woman.

Cavewoman gives his caveman a cavebaby. She is temporarily immobile for obvious reasons. Caveman goes out to hunt and collect wood for cavewoman and cavebaby. Sometimes he has to wander for miles.

After days of hunting and collecting wood, caveman is tired, bruised and spent out. On the way back, another cavewoman waves a friendly welcoming hand. She looks stunning and obviously not immobile. Her cave looks very promising and and eliminates a further 2-days walk.

The fact that many of us are around today is proof enough that many of the cavemen did not yield to such temptations and found his way back to his own cavewoman and his own cavebaby. He knew fully that he would not find a heated cave, ready food, a mobile cavewoman or a silent cavebaby.

What quality of his own cavewoman, do you think, drives our caveman to his own cave? What would happen if all cavemen stopped by the first new cavewoman beckoning him. Do you think the caveman would ever return to his home cave, if the waiting cavewoman there was a screaming feminist?


lol lol lol lol

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