Travelling to Turkey |
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How (not) to do it - Harams/helals
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| 190. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:23 am |
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Quoting adonis: YOU ABSOLUTELY DON'T KNOW THE KURD PROBLEM IN TURKEY SO DON'T MAKE DEMAGOGY AND DON'T DIGRESS THE TOPIC.
THE BOMBER IN THE LINK IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM PKK BOMBERS.
PKK WANT TO DIVIDE THE BOUNDARIES OF TURKEY WITH USING TERRORIST ATTACKS. USA AND EU SUPPORT THEM.
THE BOMBER IN THE LINK WANTS TO DESTRUCT THE PEACE IN THE WEST WITH EXPLOITING ISLAM. WHY? BECAUSE THE WEST CREATES ENEMIES FOR ITSELF TO DESTRUCT THE EAST IN ORDER TO ESTABLISH GREAT MIDDLE EAST PROJECT.
IF YOU STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCES, YOU SHOULD SEE A DOCTOR... |
Wowwwwwwwwwww! Anger a muslim and you soon find out they support Al-Qaeda - very interesting.
You are screaming like a caged animal because you trapped yourself. You were giving such sympathies to suicide bombers until I mentioned PKK bombers and then, suddenly, you have to amend your statement.
There is really no difference, so I dont need to see a doctor. The west taking over the east? Thats a joke!!!! You are doing a great job of taking over europe.
I absolutely DO know about the Kurdish "problem" in Turkey.
I think people will be very interested to read your post supporting Al-Qaeda terrorists.
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| 191. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:24 am |
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Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting AlphaF: West tells you the suicide bombers are born idiots, and you believe them. You obviously have a very clean washed brain yourself.
You cant even suspect there may be another gross reality behind the suicide bombers ! You are happy to be safe, sound and well fed among others. That is your price... |
This is all very nice.... but you seem to tell a different story when you talk about PKK bombers. |
On the contrary, I have a certain respect for PKK supporters fighting on the mountains. That does not stop me from disliking them, since I believe any kind of terrorist should be shot at sight, including Arab suicide bombers. It is the faceless, nameless cowards who keep barking at Turkia, from within the safety granted to them by Turkia - that I despise.
The point I was making is that it is stupid to believe all suicide bombers are idiots, simply brain washed to end their own lives. Some are men driven into the last corner. I dont think however, that terrorism will solve their problems.
I have news for PKK supporters. USA appears to be switching her favor and support towards the Syrian branch of PKK, which is basically under Armenian influence.
PKK supporters with no Armenian connections will soon have to make radical decisions, for their own future, if they do not want to die in this new USA game. There seems to be other suiters for the land they are after. 
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| 192. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:27 am |
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Quoting alameda:
The difference is the Islamic world is now in a compromised state, thus the reaction is different. Certainly throughout history we have seen a different story.
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Alameda, islam has been in a compromised situation from more that 1000 years.
Islamic world started well ahead in science and everything comparing to christian west!! But there has been no science or credible scients islamic world created for nearly 1000 years.
Please see this!!
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| 193. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:29 am |
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Quoting AlphaF: On the contrary, I have a certain respect for PKK supporters fighting on the mountains. That does not stop me from disliking them, since I believe any kind of terrorist should be shot at sight, including Arab suicide bombers. It is the faceless, nameless cowards who keep barking at Turkia, from within the safety granted to them by Turkia - that I despise. |
Fair enough.
Quoting AlphaF: The point I was making is that it is stupid to believe all suicide bombers are idiots, simply brain washed to end their own lives. Some are men driven into the last corner. I dont think however, that terrorism will solve their problems. |
I agree with you - not ALL suicide bombers are brainwashed. But I think you will agree that the London bombers, at least, certainly seem to be.
Quoting AlphaF: I have news for PKK supporters. USA appears to be switching her favor and support towards the Syrian branch of PKK, which is basically under Armenian influence. |
I get very concerned when you say "support". PKK are a recognised terrorist organisation by both the US and the UK. In what way are they officially (or unofficially) supporting them?
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| 194. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:36 am |
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adonis..will you NOT write in capitals ya?..
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| 195. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:38 am |
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I see, thank you for the clarification Adonis. Lets just call them "Muslim Terrorists who attack the west" then - is that better? And from your post, we can deduce that you sympathise with them.No difference - what is in a name?
With regard to the UK and US "supporting" PKK, they do not. Your own immigrants into those countries are the only ones who support it.
Neither the US government or any EU country's governments supports any terrorist organisation. Blame your own "easterners" for that one 
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| 196. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:42 am |
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Quoting CANLI: Quoting AEnigma III: Quoting elham: Quoting femme_fatal: alright.
my question is: why do ONLY muslims get offended throughout the whole world (not only on this site)?
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simple answer we respect our religion  |
You can respect your religion, and still find humourous things about it. I have a feeling that you probably do - but would never dare to share your jokes because you want to present a good public face to other people.
It is counterproductive - we would respect your religion more if you saw humour in yourselves, the way everyone else does. |
Actually,no we dont !
We dont make jokes about our religion even between eachothers because we respect it
When you believe in something and respect it you dont make jokes about it.
Even when bad things happened,we accept it as fate,as test,and we dont blame ALLAH for it
So,as japrak has pointed out the way West and east deal with religion is way much different!
That is why you 'West'cant understand why we 'East' get offended when the discussion in religions regarding İslam reach certain limit .
We have great deal of respect to what we believe!
Same as we too,we dont get it when 'West' make jokes with religion 'Christianity'
We dont get it and we dont accept it,so you dont find Muslim make joke of it tho...but,all to his ways,and its THEİR religion!
When someone talk about God as if talking about his friend,fighting with God,making fun of HİM...we dont understand it...
''HEY,that is GOD,HE is YOUR creator SHOW some respect,you respect your Mom and Dad for giving birth to you,dont you respect the one who MADE you,and MADE your parents too ?!!!''
That is what we think about it in those stiuations..but as i said all to his ways .
So you see,the way we see religion,the way we deal with it is different! |
+ 100000000000000000000000
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| 197. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:45 am |
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Partner... pls do not be that naive...
With all respect to PKK terrorists themselves, I do not think that their leaders have the experience, skill or expertise to run a guerilla war against the Turkish Army.
This operation needs knowledge and experience in strategy, lojistics, financing, purchasing, recruitment, medical, indoctrination, training, planning, communications, transportation etc.(I am not even mentioning the drug running side, which requires a specialised expertise of its own) which will need graduates of at least West Point or an equivalent military school.
Believe it, or not !
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| 198. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:45 am |
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Quoting adonis: AL QAIDE IS A CREATION OF USA AND DUE TO THIS, AL QAIDA AND USA ARE TERRORISTS AND CREATOR OF TERRORISM. BECAUSE THEY WANT TO FEIGN AN EXCUSE TO FINISH THE EAST AND ESTABLISH THE GREAT MIDDLE EAST PROJECT. AL QAIDA IS NOT ONLY A TERRORIST ORGANIZATOIN, BUT ALSO IT'S A CREATION OF USA.
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There must be a lot of dumb muslims out there then who are willing to kill themselves for such a trick eh?
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| 199. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:45 am |
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Quoting thehandsom:
With all due respect to what you believe Canli, but what you are saying is kind of approval of what femme said in the first place about muslims are easily offended about the jokes. And it is also KIND OF approval of condemming salman rushdi, danish cartoons etc..
But cant you see that these ideas were always common in the west? The only difference is the internet age and the information traveling so fast. so that some cartoons are printed, guys in pakistans sees the following day..(and somehow, tragically, some of them get killed in demonstrations  )
Since, we know that there is freedom of expression, and also we know that there are people thinking those things about islam.
Why dont you want to hear them? why is always people sent after those people responsible? (many people sent after s rushdi, they are trying to kill those danish cartonists, in Turkey, they burnt more than 30 intellects alive in sivas madimak-because aziz nesin published s rushdi's book )
About beliving in something and not making jokes about it: Sorry but, you are wrong and how come can you speak of all islamic people? there are many many jokes about mohammed and religion in turkish language. I can give some examples if you like..
About not questioning the bad things and simply call it faith is another thing I will disagree. I really believe that it is the part of reason why all the muslim countries are not developed!! Leaving everything to Allah kind of blocks the search for what is going wrong..
I think in this forum, we talked about REFORM in islam. What is acceptable as a joke, what is freedom of speach, what is really insulting or couple of infidels' cartoons can harm The Creater. They should all be in this reform package.
Islam should have a milder face. And not accepting any critisism or jokes is not doing any good to islam..
It is partly why in the world, christianty is expanding more than islam!!
I really think muslims should be more relaxed about these issues.
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With all due respect handsom,there is much difference between critisism and jokes !
İ accept critisism,but i do not accept jokes !
Joking is making fun about you believe,how can you believe in something dont worth your respect ?!
İ dont care if those idea is common in the West or not,we have our ideas about Christianity too,but you do NOT see it in cartoons!
There should be mutual respect between religions,and of coure between people too
that is 1,2 relatioships between others ... RESPECT
İts even what our parents teach us too!
As if you are telling me its ok to insult your parents because they insult their parents ?!
Or its ok to allow them to insult your parents,because they insult theirs!
Either ways,it will ALWAYS be wrong to insult parents ,wont it ?!
PS:i dont mean 'you' as 'YOU'
İ dont get your point about development tho !
Who is stopping you ?!
What is this got to do with İslam ?!
İn İslam ALLAH ordered us to learn,to search ...so who is stopping you ?!
And i dont understand what do you mean by REFORM in islam ?!
How can we REFORM what ALLAH sent to us,and what we BELİEVE in, so by this we are Muslims ?!
REFORM islam rules you mean ?
Pick the suitable ones and leave the ones we dont like?!
İ actually dont understand what you mean!
You just cant REFORM a religion,religion is set of rules,you take it as they are,you cant REFORM it unless you are the one who have sent it !
Sure insulting or couple of infidels' cartoons can not harm The Creator.
But they show LACK of respect !
You want Muslims to have cold blood and be cool when they hear insults to THEİR religion,and they should make fun of it too ?
That is how Muslims countries will be developed ?!
Would anyone hear someone insult his parents,and he would make fun of it ?!
As you said,there is Media and İnternet,so they should know this lack of respect will reach us too,and we dont HAVE to accept it too.
So we did what would any SANE person do when hear his insult,we complained,and we STOPPED dealing economically with people who insulted us till we get a proper apology
And i think its our right too,and i agree with that,but sending people after who ever to kill...that i dont agree with,and i dont think its in İslam too,i mean who gave them the right to judge who live and who should die?!
But,how do they deal with their religion is THEİR business,what do they think of our religion is THEİR business too...i accept that
But they showing us respect is our right as we show it to them...dont you think so ?
Btw,you said there is many jokes about mohammed and religion in turkish language.
İm curios about it,so can you pls pm me some of them ?!
Here in Egypt we Muslim and Christians live together,i didnt hear any joke about either Mohamed SAV or Christ too,maybe about İmam,about priests,about Muslims and Christians,but NEVER about prophets,so yes pls send to me.
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| 200. |
18 Feb 2008 Mon 03:46 am |
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Quoting AlphaF:
On the contrary, I have a certain respect for PKK supporters fighting on the mountains. That does not stop me from disliking them, since I believe any kind of terrorist should be shot at sight, including Arab suicide bombers. It is the faceless, nameless cowards who keep barking at Turkia, from within the safety granted to them by Turkia - that I despise.
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I have been trying to avoid this but..
This is the WRONG way of thinking.
We have an unfortunate culture in turkey.
when somebody says 'Solution', people understand that 'hitting harder' (in the context of kurdish problem) or when somebody says compromise, people think 'it is something not for a -man like- us'.
Gods sake..These ideas have taken Turkey away from the real solution for the subject!!!
We Turks and Kurd are trying to find the way of living together. When you reduce this problem into simplest way..This is the problem..
If I am really thinking that I want to live with my neighbour, I will never think to kill them and all their kins etc...
There are still things in turkey need to change..
Unfortunately!!
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