Since everybody is so unhappy with TC, please tell us what are your suggestions about what you would like to be different, what would you like to change in the forum?

Whiners should be reminded to take cliff exit....

I think it would be less frustrating if I could press "return" instead of "go" when logging in.

More than one chat room would be useful, specifically for lessons. I went there last night and it was just a bunch of people chatting idly. Can't there be chat rooms for specific purposes?

What about a message board? Specifically for people who want to advertise that they are willing to give lessons in the new chatrooms or people who want lessons. It would be an easier point of reference. People would be able to hook up quickly.

Does the site have it's own search engine, for articles on the site? For instance, If I wanted a recipe that used karpuz, instead of having to sift through the recipe threads or post a request, I could type in "karpuz" and all threads with "karpuz" in would be listed.

Is there a way of knowing which moderator is on duty? If there was then people could pm them about technical queries etc.and get instant feedback. Do you have moderators just for technical queries? Maybe some of the members will volunteer. Their name could appear in a "technicalities" window on the main page, so members know they are available to be pm ed and instant feedback is available. This wouldn't stop those "on duty" from enjoying the site whilst they do something useful. It might cut down on posts to moderate too.

I think everything should be open to discussion, but as Marion said, we know how to act like adults so let us do so.

There will always be things that rub us up the wrong way, things that upset us and if you choose to respond, you should do so constructively, not throwing around accusations and """ist comments. If something has been said that is way way out of line, I think that we are all intelligent enough to not respond and ignore it. A person who posts revolting things depends on people to respond. Restrain and ignore them.

If people wish to discuss Israel or US politics, keep the dialogues to the "off-topic" section. If you wish to read only about Turkey, don't look at off-topic subjects which are unrelated.

That's may kuruş worth !

Whenever I want to say a good thing about Turkey, Turkish culture, same members try to make fun of it, as if they don't want the others like these beauties.....
Suggestion: Somebodies should make a self criticism

Could we have a separate forum for politics? That way, members who do not like politics can avoid that forum all together.

I only have a few.

My biggest problem with TC is selective censorship.
If there is a daily limit on number of posts, total byte submission, size of pictures, etc, it should be made clear to everyone and enforced equally. This would be better then the monthly PM from a site represenative giving the list of complaints and asking that person to reduce the amount they post.

I hate the word Zionism but this site has been a classic example of it. As much as Turkey and Islam get insulted and ridiculed at this site, say one word about how the Israelis are dealing with Palestine and you are immediately shut down. In the last weeks, not once did I bring up the topic of israel out of nowhere. It was in response to the misinformation being said about the events in Gaza. It seems most people at this site do not favor the muslim Palestinians. I see blame enough to go around and post the past historical events so that this issue can be more understood. The people who I disagree with can post all they want. I post once and get threatened by the site owner. This is my main issue. Selective censorship.

Those were my complaints. Now a few suggestions.

1. To those of you who's battlecry is, "like it or leave it", stop. This only means you don't have an intelligent comment to add.

2. Respect. It has plummetted in the last year. Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Name-calling should not be tolerated. Being an admin is difficult and they cannot be here all the time. It is the job of all members to occasionally let someone know when they are out of line.

3. Quit asking Roswitha to footnote and give credit to her posts. This is not a university thesis.

4. Those of us who have spent many years in Turkey know it has problems. We see them everyday. If you want to address an issue with Turkey, try it first with a dustmop rather than a sledgehammer.

5. Evaluate why you are here. Honestly, if your reasons to be here are not to learn turkish, learn about Turkey or promote Turkey, then why are you here? If it is to detract or ridicule the people who are here for those purposes, then your intentions are not honorable or appreciated.

In your first suggestion you totally negate your second. Respect isn’t just about name calling. In one breath you say everyone is entitled to their opinion but then say that “those of us whose battle cry is like it or leave it” to stop”? Isn’t this another form of selective censorship?

And what right do you have to judge anyone else’s reason for being here? You cannot decide who’s intentions are honorable based solely on the reasons you list here.

Catwoman has asked for suggestions on how to improve TC which some members have managed. So why not keep it like that?

So let me get this straight if I feel like this site is against me and unfair.. I should start a topic and poll and put everyone in an uproar for two days. This will lead to results..just want to clarify is this the appropriate steps to take?

I thought about this on my way home from work. Giving it more thought rather than casting stones at people. I do like the idea of having a seperate forum for politics and religion and here is my reason.

I personally have learned alot about different religions coming to this site, than just googling. Whether I agree or not it has still enlightened me and has given me a better understanding of people and their beliefs. The same thing with politics. What makes a country..is the foundation of beliefs and political views of their people.

I don't personally come here everyday just to learn about Turkey and maybe I need to reflect on that. I come here because of the people. The freethinkers, conservatives, pot stirrers, liberals,instigators, intellects, jewerly store owners, wives, husbands, nationalists, book store owners, link poster, bored stay at home moms, business women and men, fat asses, dudus, sport enthusiasts,music lovers, hairy men, romantics and poets.

We all have different personalities and agendas why we are here, yet we all come here day after day..some more than others. So we do have some commonality among us..let us not forget.

So keeping this in mind no matter what the rules are here, they are going to be bent, broken, compromised at times. As long as it doesn't get out of hand by cursing, calling names I think it should be open to really any topic. Those who want to participate can and those who would rather not, don't. It's really that simple, when you think about it. If there is a severe problem that you can't work out with another member, then pm the moderator/admin for them to advise you. Just like any successful business manager the admin/mod should try to be consistent on their level of decision making. As long as they are consistent with their judgment no one can fault them.

Those are just my thoughts..

I am sorry but this whole thing seems to be getting out of hand.
After reading all complaints here, I start to wonder if you really know what anti-Turkey and anti-Islam means and most importantly, what the 'freedom of speech' is.

Can really, anybody give me some examples about anti-turkey or anti-islam posts here and explain how it is NOT related to freedom of speech?

Please..admin and mods. My country has been lacking of freedom of speech for soo long, for so many years..
Now we are on the web, where there is more freedom, and you are trying to take it away in TC?

My foreign friends,westerners , who want this site more controlled more censored, please ya..
The very concept of democracy came from the west!!
Freedom of speech is 'the must' value for your civilisation..
How can you turn around and say to admin or mods 'we want some of the content to be censored' (referring to anti-turkish and anti-islam)?
If you have an idea and if you really think that you dont agree with the content of the post, what is stopping you to post your ideas?
If you think, content of a post is anti-turkish, dont you have any ideas to put it there and say what you think?

My advice to admin and mods will be 'LESS RESTRICTION' on the topics..

and and
freedom to Roswitha

For me the main problem is not the difference of opinions. It's through these kind of discussions we can increase our own understanding and knowledge of things. It's what keeps things interesing. The problem is that some people only come on to "warn" people about Turkey. These are the people who insult, then when people are offended, they say they are entitled to their opinion. When it gets to the point that girls were asking for translations and then there were pages of posts of just insulting the girl for being "naive" and her man just being a "dudu". This type of behaviour is unacceptable. This is the reason why lots of people came and didn't want to stay on the site. Why would they? We all know what those tourism guys can be like, doesn't mean we need to insult and be so rude. This site isn't an exclisive club for those who use it daily, and new comers who love Turkey or Turkish guys need to be "warned". New people who come have every right to be here without being insulted or bullied.

Thats why I listed those in a seperate "suggestions" post. Yes, uninforceable. But as a member, why wouldnt you want to try and be more respectful. There are other places for people's negativity release if that is what they come here for.

Excerpts from the rules used by another forum : http://forums.sixapart.com/index.php?showtopic=39328#entry176178

General Conduct
Personal attacks on other users, moderators, or staff members either in public forums or private messages will not be tolerated.

The use of profanity is inappropriate on the forum, as are racial, ethnic, or gender-based insults. Our user base is broad and includes members from various ages, genders, ethnicities and religious backgrounds, and it is important that everyone feel equally comfortable here. Posts that are offensive, insulting, or inflammatory are subject to immediate removal without warning.

Having fun or disagreement is permitted, as long as it does not become disruptive or rude.

All comments should be constructive and on-topic (within reason).

Moderation of Board
If your topic appears to have been moved to a new location and you cannot find it using our search feature, please send a private message to a moderator. Do not re-post the topic.

If you see a post which appears to violate any of our guidelines, do not respond to the post. Send a private message to a moderator notifying them of the violation.

At all times, we reserve the right to remove any topics that we deem to be inappropriate, abusive, or disruptive to the community in general.

At all times, we reserve the right to ban any member who violates our guidelines or disrupts our community. Warnings will be issued where appropriate.

Many of the points stated above essentially constitute the complaints I and many other members have so far made of the way the forums are run. Profanity, irrelevance, ethnic or cultural disparagement must not be tolerated.

Those who point out to the private nature of the site should also remember, THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM, this is not somebody's private intranet only available to say, family
members.

Now that we are polite and well-mannered people seeking some sort of consensus, we should really begin questioning ourselves to find out how we fare in the NET ETIQUETTE league...

Before you go casting stones at others, why don't you boys practice what you preach. It’s very hard to take someone seriously when they don’t follow their own examples.

Here is a sampling of vineyards respectful discourse with various TC members:
__________________________________________________
*Hi. this is Akin I am a psycho and I hate your guts.

*Femme you should really reset your prejudices. You are insulting all the Easterners including your own Kazakhs collectively now. Do you have a spine? Or are you a jelly fish?

*If you were a mature person, you's sit at your desk and read a little bit before making those teenager comments.

*Is idiocy contagious?

*That's it I claim that I don't hate the West and you claim you hate the East. You have admitted your hatred so get the hell out of here this is a site for the learners of an Eastern language.

*and one of those monkeys seems to be at large...

*Stop, caring about only what you can use against me morose woman.

*Oh really, what part of mine will you start with? If you ask me, you deserve my ass.

*If you were my wife, I would either commit suicide right away or wear the hijab on your behalf when you are around.

*Well, this is free market economy. Take it or leave it.

*when you call a world famous poet a 'traitor' or as 'that dog', you shouldn't be surprized when somebody calls you an idiot.

*You think you are quite a showman Erlik but I still can hear the clank, clank of the hollow in your brain somehow.

*I've said what I wanted to say. Now go nag somebody else.

*Going back to your ass Erlik, don't think for a moment that it will age like wine, when you are completely forgotten no one will remember your cheap arguments

*If I needed an example maybe I would chose catwoman. She is way more feministic than you and God knows I feel sorry for her.

Now let’s take a peek at keith’s kind words……
____________________________________________________
*Metahan, It seems all you do is cry and complain.
All I can say to you is be a man and grow up. You are an embarassment to your people...

*Except for Quasi. I'm willling to pass a law banning him from istanbul...

*Great....the hatred shows its colors.
We'll be more than happy to keep you out.

*You have the right to your opinion. Even if it is uninformed...

*What is to enlighten? Are you an attorney, a judge? It is the law in this country. I don't need to explain it or reason it to you. Respect it.

*I think you just answered your own question and confirmed what most already thought....

*Would you prefer "illegal" or "dangerous", because what you said is both. Pull out your thesaurus and I will let you choose a word.

*Your words are pretty twisted all by themselves without any help from others...

*I always ask this question to "Bill-haters" and their answers are usually ridiculous. If they answer at all.

*The honest answer for many uninformed Americans might be, "because Hannity and Limbaugh told me to hate them". I would at least respect their honesty.

*Anyone who says this or agrees with this is a complete mental and moral zero...

*Don't apologize to me. You should be apologizing to our muslim friends at this site and also to your high school civics teacher...

*you must be blind I swear to God..... Your poor miserable husband.......

*Read the forums maybe before posting. A question was asked and I answered it..

*you are only angry because your youth has left you like so many people have also left you I'm sure....

*please. he is a 70 year old man that life and time has passed by. All he has left now is his bitterness on life and a wife that learned to ignore him years ago. Maybe we should do the same to him...

*The old man is awake and speaking his nonsense again...why dont you and your "new toy" run off and play...

Now keith, I have one last question for you....why was it ok with you when catwoman asked kaddersosak to limit the length of his posts (you entered a +1). And why was it ok for you to single out portokal asking her to not flood the threads with irrelevant posts...but it is NOT ok for the same to be asked of Ros? A double standard?

I dont have a problem with religious or other discussions.

For me it is not a question of free speech, but respectful speech.

I just get fed up with a thread starting on one subject and ends up either being personal attacks (often 8 to 10 posts long back and forth) between 2 or 3 people, or someone throwing in a comment about ataturk / religion / Turkish men or whatever is their personal hobby horse that has nothing to do with the thread.


It is too easy to say if you dont like it, dont read it. I would avoid a thread with a title that is obviously aiming to cause trouble. But a normal discussion on any subject seems to go astray very quickly! I cant tell which ones are going to be bad tempered, miserable and down-write ruining my day until it is too late and I have clicked on all that vitriole.

Having said all that, I think the only rules worth having are the following:

8. Do not post vulgar, hateful, threatening, derogatory, racist or obscene comments on this site. Any such content will be deleted. The user account of the author of such messages may also be deleted if it repeats.

9. Avoid personal disputes and arguments. Personal correspondence postings should be kept at a minimum. Personal attacks or insults directed towards other users will not be tolerated. Basically if you don't have anything nice to say then just don't say it all. If somebody posts an insulting comment do not reply to it. It will only result in starting a flame-war. Instead, send a Private Message to one of the forum moderators and they will take care of it.


If only we could take the advice written here: "If somebody posts an insulting comment do not reply to it. It will only result in starting a flame-war."

Even this thread has now turned into an argument of who said what bad things and when, and who has more right to ask for things that others, and who is consistent and who isn't!

Allah, Allah!!!!!!!

Let's stop fighting and hitting each other over the head.

Debate in an adult way would mean this site would benefit many. at the moment it often deteriorates into the type of fights we see in the children's playground. "He said it first". "No she did it". "My country is better than your country".

I know many new visitors who dont even bother to get an account when they see the standard of the forum.

I also remember how I felt in the first few weeks when I got caught in the cross fire a few times, until I learned wo were the class bullies and to stay well away from them.

Thank you very much for all your suggestions. It was great to hear your complaints and what you would like to be different here so that everybody feels better about being here and contributing to learning about Turkey and Turkish language.
We are taking all your suggestions into consideration and we'll let you know what changes we will decide to implement.
Thank you!

Thank you all for your posts. As Handsom asked, I would like to see some examples of what people understand to be anti-turkish and anti-islam, so that we can decide where the limit should be. I personally have not seen anti-turkish and anti-islam, but something tells me that the people who have complaints about it, think that I am anti-those too, something of which I have a strong feeling it is misjudged. So please fire in some examples, so that we can take a look at them.

Thank you all for your cooperation.


DK.

This is shocking that nobody responded to our request to explain to us what exactly they mean by being "anti-Islam" and "anti-Turkish"... You won't have the right to complain about it if you don't help us understand what you mean.

We need an Arguement Forum or Thread!!

If any of you have given examples as requested below privately to DK, would you please share them with the rest of us as well?
Many of us are still interested in seeing the examples so that we can have a better understanding of your points of view.
Thank you!

I think we should let it go. I pulled out a harmless old thread today in which Aenigma declares it an anti-islam thread. It obviously took the wrong turn as we can see from the activity had today.
We all know the threads that come close to the line in the middle of the road. Two people can look at this line from each side facing each other and see a completely different perspective (and still both be right). We are all going to choose which view we want to see.

Guys,im not making a suggestion,tho i agree with many of the ones above

But,i want to say something,i knew TLC when i was searching for sites to learn Turkish,and i have found it.
İ came to study,and to be honest,i have found many people who helped me
And then it started to be main source for me to know anything i need about Türkiye too
Any news,any political events,things we dont understand,people here explained much
So,i even didnt bother to try and search for Türkiye's news in TV,i used to come here first and maybe i open TV later
İ wasnt bother if i dont understand any rule in the Turkish grammar,i knew,i can come to TLC and ask,and many will explain to me,and even if i played dumb they wont get annoyed of my many questions,and they wont leave it till i understand
So,i actually owe TLC great deal of my knowledge about Türkiye.
And i owe TLC members great deal of my understanding of the language also

So,if i ask myself now,is this what TLC offering me still ?!
unfortunately,the answer is NO

So,i just dont want to open my TV to know about Türkiye,or search for any language explanation as long as i have TLC
Understand what i mean ?!

Can we have a "Grievance Forum"? This would be the only place where people will be able to whine about Admin/mods/other classmates....