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Turkish Politics

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70.       catwoman
8933 posts
 08 Apr 2008 Tue 09:21 am

Quoting janissary:

if ı call them turk, TC members call me as racist


lol
no cnm, it's not that you call them turks, it's that you want to turkish-ise them and force them to deny their kurdish culture and origins. if they call themselves kurds, why don't you respect that? how is that hurting you or your country?

71.       janissary
0 posts
 08 Apr 2008 Tue 10:01 am

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting janissary:

if ı call them turk, TC members call me as racist


lol
no cnm, it's not that you call them turks, it's that you want to turkish-ise them and force them to deny their kurdish culture and origins. if they call themselves kurds, why don't you respect that? how is that hurting you or your country?



nobody force them to deny their culture and origin. in this country we have a different origin and culture as a black sea ppl. But I see myself as a part of this country with my culture and origin. we are different elemets of this country. laz, kurds, çerkez, armenian, greeks, arabs...we all have different cultures and we all live all cultures, I respect all of the kurds who see themselves as a part of this country. and who accepts our flag as his flag and all of turkey borders as his country. ı dont mind what ppl call himself turk or kurd it doesnt matter for me. we are all turkey citizen. I always say Im laz and maybe Im greek or something. it doesnt hurt me to called turk. Im proud of being called like that.

Im not afraid of saying where Im from I wish everyone could say proudly like me

72.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 08 Apr 2008 Tue 10:24 am

Quoting CANLI:


Should countries divide their lands between whom living in it ?!
So we will see İtalin part ,Chinese part,Japanese part...ect in USA as well ?!
And all of them will be independent ?!!!



Quoting alameda:


The Kurds did not have a homeland and had not even thought about having one prior to WWI. They were nomads. Modern Turkey is comprised of an amalgamation of all the ethnic groups that make it up. This is similar to Germany with the Saxons, Teutons, Gauls, Vandals, Visigoths and all are all German citizens. Do you ever hear anyone calling for a Visigoth country.



Quoting vineyards:


Turkish government is responsible to its people. It cannot give away an inch of land to anyone. All the land we have is our common property. You are free to live on it, use it, buy it or do whatever you want with it but you are not free to launch a free Kurdistan on Turkey's soil.



You guys made an excellent point and I absolutely agree with you on this one. However, how many of you were congratulating Albanians who established a new country on Serbian land? That's the same story, there's never been an independent Kurdistan or Kosovo, Kurds at least are an ethic group, there's no such ethnic group like Kosovars.

As I said in another thread, how can Turkey not grant rights to a free Kurdistan if they accepted Kosovo? Does it work like, if they steal from another country it's fine by us, but if they steal for us it's unacceptable?

Just to make things perfectly clear - I am against creating independent Kurdistan on Turkish land just as I am against creating Kosovo on Serbian land.

73.       catwoman
8933 posts
 08 Apr 2008 Tue 11:30 am

Quoting Daydreamer:

As I said in another thread, how can Turkey not grant rights to a free Kurdistan if they accepted Kosovo? Does it work like, if they steal from another country it's fine by us, but if they steal for us it's unacceptable?


Yes! You got it!

74.       vineyards
1954 posts
 08 Apr 2008 Tue 11:54 am

Daydreamer, in international politics there is a concept called reciprocity. Nations determine their policies in response to those developed by other nations. This is an iron-clad rule in international relations.

There are a number of alliances which are not officially declared but known to everyone, accordingly:

Russia, Greece, Serbia form a league of Slavic/Orthodox countries. They use their influence to create advantage to other Slavic or Orthodox members, may it be Eurovision song contest or international politics. To offset the effects of such naturally forming pacts countries like Bosnia, Macedonia, Albania form another entity which is supported by Turkey. The Balkans have always been a center for ethnic, religious turbulance. Do I support countries being divided into camps like this? No. However, this is unfortunately the case.

As you know there are current/historical tensions between:

Macedonia - Greece
Albenia - Greece
Turkey - Greece
Turkey- Bulgaria
Turkey - Serbia
Serbia-Croatia
Serbia-Bosnia
Bosnia-Croatia
Bulgaria-Macedonia

It works like this: For example, If you are a Greek, you do your best to undermine Macedonia. You don't need a good reason for that. If something is bad for Macedonia it is good for you. Similarly, Turkey considers Bosnia as a natural extension of its culture and heritage in Europe and the country feels Bosnia is left alone in the middle of hostile powers. Hence it strives to protect Bosnian interests. During the war, people collected contributions everywhere in Istanbul to be sent to Bosnia. This is something that naturally happens. It is very much like the natural rapport between the Brits and the US people. The UK government openly declared on many occasions that they consider the US a natural ally on historical and cultural grounds and that they will always act together.

By virtue of such unwritten pacts between countries, The UK could capture Falkland islands from Argentina. Did the Argentine people have a strong Patogonian league that would defend their interests at all costs, this would not have been possible.

75.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 08 Apr 2008 Tue 12:08 pm

Quoting CANLI:


Should countries divide their lands between whom living in it ?!
So we will see İtalin part ,Chinese part,Japanese part...ect in USA as well ?!
And all of them will be independent ?!!!



I see a difference here with the Kurds though... The İtalians, Chinese and Japanese in the US all have independent countries to go back to when they dont like the policy of their new country The way you say it, we should just divide Russia's population over all countries in the world, they create an independent state, and all of the world is Russian

76.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 08 Apr 2008 Tue 12:20 pm

DK - that's exactly what happened in Serbia - Albanians had their country to go back to but they created a new country of stolen Serbian land!

Vineyards - of course I am aware of the preferences stemming from the historical as well as geographical reasons. However, my point was that Turkey's decision constitutes a threat to its own integrity. If Kurdistan wanted to proclaim independence, do you think it wouldn't gain support from the EU and the rest of the world? Most countries with similar problems like Turkey didn't recognise Kosovo in order to avoid similar claims on behalf of their minorities. Turkey's decision to do the contrary may have tragic repercussions.

77.       vineyards
1954 posts
 08 Apr 2008 Tue 03:26 pm

They first called the EU, The European Common Market and then European Economic Union and finally the EU. The organization has been evolving in a continent comprising highly incompatible elements. The EU has already positioned itself against Turkey. It pushes Turkey to recognize Greek Cypriot Government as the sole representative of the island; for long years it openly supported PKK terrorism. A significant number of PKK terrorists took shelter in European countries where they generated money for financing their operations.

In other words, it will not be a great surprize for Turkey if the EU supports a free Kurdistan in the country. After all, everybody wants to see some results when they make such a long term investment.

P.S. I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on Kosova independence. I will read a bit and write a comment.

78.       KeithL
1455 posts
 08 Apr 2008 Tue 03:54 pm

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting CANLI:


Should countries divide their lands between whom living in it ?!
So we will see İtalin part ,Chinese part,Japanese part...ect in USA as well ?!
And all of them will be independent ?!!!



I see a difference here with the Kurds though... The İtalians, Chinese and Japanese in the US all have independent countries to go back to when they dont like the policy of their new country The way you say it, we should just divide Russia's population over all countries in the world, they create an independent state, and all of the world is Russian



Thank you DK, I have been waiting for someone to post this. On one hand, these Kurds could go live in what will be independent Kurdistan in N. Iraq. But on the other hand, the Kurds there don't want them to come.

79.       KeithL
1455 posts
 08 Apr 2008 Tue 03:55 pm

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting Daydreamer:

As I said in another thread, how can Turkey not grant rights to a free Kurdistan if they accepted Kosovo? Does it work like, if they steal from another country it's fine by us, but if they steal for us it's unacceptable?


Yes! You got it!



I was against an independent Kosovo also.

80.       CANLI
5084 posts
 08 Apr 2008 Tue 04:15 pm

Quoting KeithL:

Quoting Deli_kizin:

Quoting CANLI:


Should countries divide their lands between whom living in it ?!
So we will see İtalin part ,Chinese part,Japanese part...ect in USA as well ?!
And all of them will be independent ?!!!



I see a difference here with the Kurds though... The İtalians, Chinese and Japanese in the US all have independent countries to go back to when they dont like the policy of their new country The way you say it, we should just divide Russia's population over all countries in the world, they create an independent state, and all of the world is Russian



Thank you DK, I have been waiting for someone to post this. On one hand, these Kurds could go live in what will be independent Kurdistan in N. Iraq. But on the other hand, the Kurds there don't want them to come.


But its not fair to divide İraq also ?!
Stealing their lands just because they are taken over by USA !

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