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EU/Turks and a survey
(29 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
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10.       zhang ziyi
205 posts
 15 May 2008 Thu 11:49 pm

.

11.       CANLI
5084 posts
 16 May 2008 Fri 12:05 am

Quoting zhang ziyi:

Turks in EU:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPMCCjQmBQs


Nice comments !
So much for tolerance i must say !
Can we STİLL blame the Media ?İ wonder !
One comments said ''İn USA,our police is armed,our military,and also WE are armed ''!

So,Yes,i agree MUSLİMS should learn to be more tolerant !

12.       CANLI
5084 posts
 16 May 2008 Fri 12:11 am

Quoting Avalon:


First of all Germany is one of EU countries not the whole EU
secondly the choice of the video to this thread,are you sure what are you talking about?
more??????????????
tanistigimiza memnum oldum sekerim



Actually Avalon,its not about the video as much as its about the comments !
He/she didnt write those comments
And its obvious what they are saying there...

Turk will be MUCH welcome at EU,also Muslims are much Welcome there and in USA too!

13.       zhang ziyi
205 posts
 16 May 2008 Fri 12:27 am

What worried me and I was puzzled by is why the father wanted to throw his little boy out of the window? As a man and a loving parent you should be protecting your child not exposing him or her to a danger or as a shield. There must be something wrong in such behavior that cannot be justified by any circumstances.


Quoting CANLI:

Quoting Avalon:


First of all Germany is one of EU countries not the whole EU
secondly the choice of the video to this thread,are you sure what are you talking about?
more??????????????
tanistigimiza memnum oldum sekerim



Actually Avalon,its not about the video as much as its about the comments !
He/she didnt write those comments
And its obvious what they are saying there...

Turk will be MUCH welcome at EU,also Muslims are much Welcome there and in USA too!

14.       CANLI
5084 posts
 16 May 2008 Fri 12:40 am

Quoting zhang ziyi:

What worried me and I was puzzled by is why the father wanted to throw his little boy out of the window? As a man and a loving parent you should be protecting your child not exposing him or her to a danger or as a shield. There must be something wrong in such behavior that cannot be justified by any circumstances.


Well,actually i cant answer this,as i dont speak german,so i dont know what was happening there
But what i know that,its not a logical action,and also not logical coming from Turk,we know how family ,children are very important and highly appreciated in the Turkish society
So that is not normal

15.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 16 May 2008 Fri 01:36 am

Quoting zhang ziyi:

Sorry if I have offended you. If I were Turkish it would have hurt me too. I understand. I just wanted to see ...


I quite like to know what you wanted to see really?

It is an ignorant link, ignorant generalization with a thickheaded title.

And stupid comments from idiotic, dumb, unrefined, vulgar, uncultured people.

You can find hundreds of these type of clips for each country on the net.

What did you expect really?

16.       zhang ziyi
205 posts
 16 May 2008 Fri 07:20 pm

.

17.       cynicmystic
567 posts
 06 Jun 2008 Fri 09:34 pm

I am Turkish, and am completely against Turkey joining the EU. I find it rather amusing that there is still propaganda about the inclusion of Turkey in the already "dead" EU.

People on both sides of the argument often cling on the untenable nationalistic pride, or outright xenophobia, often overlooking the real reasons why this issue exists in the first place.

The general public opinion in Europe is obviously against inclusion of Turks in the EU. Europeans do not feel that Turks are civilized enough. And the majority of Turkish immigrants that flocked to Germany, Sweden etc in the 60s have not done much to fix this image. They wouldn't admit that this is how they feel. But, this is how it is. Turks are still considered to be "barbarians." The general public opinion in Turkey is not only that Turks are at least as civilized as the "Euro-trash, on welfare checks" but in fact more civilized in the sense that they carry the legacy of the greatly feared Ottoman empire.

What I find rather amusing in both cases is the fact that nobody wonders about why EU politicians would favor inclusion of Turkey in the EU despite all the negative public opinion.

Let me get a few facts straight before I explain why Turkey should refrain from joining the EU.

Following the collapse of the USSR, the economic & military ties between the EU & the USA were damaged. During the Cold War, the US maintained a significant position in Western Europe as the only military capable of protecting Western Europe against a potential Communist aggression. The presence of the American army in the region allowed the EU to foster economically, while not having to spend that much on maintaining an army. As a result, the US became not only the protector but also the major trading partner of the EU. All of this changed with the collapse of the USSR.

For the first time, the power dynamics had changed, and the EU leaders aspired to becoming more than a simple "economic power." The EU wanted to become a political power. The problem with this idea was that you can become a political power only if you have an ARMY. Currently, the EU is paying the price for its short-sightedness.

Let's take a good look at this s-cherished European Union, and the miserable state it is in.

1. Europe has no army of any significance. The second largest army in NATO is actually the Turkish army. The cost of raising an army the size of what Turkey already maintains is enormously higher than the financial burden of including Turkey in the EU. The primary idea behind accepting Turkey will allow European countries to use the already strong Turkish army & modernize it into a European military power. It is actually a short-cut for saving a lot of money.

2. Europe has no access to oil. It has no access to the middle east thanks to the two gulf wars perpetrated by America. France has been trying to deal with Iran to establish a fourth petroleum exchange platform in Paris to sell oil exclusively in Euro. But, who knows if this will be realized. On the other hand, if Turkey becomes part of the EU, the EU will not only share its borders with the middle east, but will also control the pipelines that pas through Turkey.

3. Europe is at the mercy of Russia due to its dependence on Russian natural gas. We all saw how the EU politicians had to eat shit when Putin closed the pipelines as a political tool.

4. The few smart Europeans, such as the Icelandic, and perhaps the rest of Scandinavia are already working very hard to change their economy to depend less on oil. The trend is toward a hydrogen based economy, such as the one proposed for Iceland (to be completed by 202. But, the big players, such as Germany, France and the UK are still pursuing their own interests. This will eventually lead to a break-up of the EU.

5. There is already much annoyance with the common currency, Euro, especially in Germany, Italy and France. In case you are wondering why there are far too many Italians working at coffe shops in London, it is because they cannot find employment in Italy. There is even the possibility of Norway & Denmark pulling out of the monetary union. It should also be taken into account that the always-sneaky United Kingdom has rather wisely refrained from joining the monetary union clinging onto its own never-changing, fully-pegged currency. The Turkish Lira was recently re-valuated, and is doing just fine without the burden of "Euro."

6. Regarding immigration, the EU is on the verge of a disaster. Nearly 1.5 people out of 10 in France & Italy is either North African or is a Muslim. Spain & italy is suffering a major problem with illegal immigration from Rumenia, in the form of Romani Zingaris, who do not consider themselves Rumenian at all. The UK & Germany already have a significant number of Indians, Turks, Kurds, Pakistanis, West Africans and Eastern Europeans. All this diversity is a time bomb that will explode within our life time. With a population that is aging, the demographics in the EU 15 years from today will look very different. I think that racism will resurface its ugly head, and wage-gap will be a lot more visible.

7. The EU is suffering a crisis with its welfare system. On one hand, you have an aging & retiring old Europeans, whose pensions will have to be paid by the younger generation that has a socially costly habit of taking two-week vacations in Bali on their unemployment checks & under-the-table jobs. On the other hand, you have massive immigration and have no way of monitoring or placing the new-comers into your society so that they can integrate. I often wonder why people make such a big deal about "having the right to work where ever you want in the EU." What is the big deal? There are no jobs anyway. So you might as well wipe your ass with that work permit. If Europeans are worried about "foreigner" coming in and stealing their jobs, then it should be said that it is only the low-paying jobs that the Europeans aren't willing to do in the first place that are "stolen." You don't see too many Europeans wiling to work at low-paying hotel jobs, cleaning, live-in-caregiver for the elderly etc. They would much rather collect a check from the government while working under the table as a bartender. I have no doubt that the EU has already cracked economically right in the middle.

In the light of all these negative things, I don't see what Turkey will achieve by joining the EU other than having to carry its burden. I think it is about time that certain Europeans woke up and realized that not all Turks are actually "gagging" to join your crumbling club. Many of us feel that Turkey should play a role in the area similar to Switzerland with its neutrality.

Maybe the European Dream is over already...

18.       zhang ziyi
205 posts
 07 Jun 2008 Sat 12:36 am

Now, tell me, where you have graduated from?
A brilliantly articulated opinion. Many interesting points with insightful information.
Well done!

Quoting cynicmystic:



Maybe the European Dream is over already...

19.       Avalon
381 posts
 07 Jun 2008 Sat 02:00 am

Quoting zhang ziyi:

Now, tell me, where you have graduated from?
A brilliantly articulated opinion. Many interesting points with insightful information.
Well done!

Quoting cynicmystic:



Maybe the European Dream is over already...

University of life lol btw accurate observations cynimystic

20.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 07 Jun 2008 Sat 09:51 am

Good points Cynimistics, still, I'd rather live in that Europe whose dream is about to end than outside it. As for mixed ethnicity, I don't think the problem is different backgrounds coexisting, the problem is when extended families live off social welfare rather than work. Have a look at the USA, they are a melting pot and somehow for 200 years they have been pulling it off.

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