Has it ever occured to you that it could be us, the 'educated' ones who are driving those people to the wrong direction? With a snobish attitude towards them?
They didn't graduate from a universtity. So what? This could be the result of various reasons. Their families' finacial situation, their parents' strict and out of date opinion about studies, or just their need to earn their own living and their desire for independence.
How can you blame them? And for what? For not studying maths or literature? When someone cant make ends meet, do you think that he has the luxury to have cultural worries? And, on the other hand, who said that those people are not cultural? Or who said that they are not worth to be dealt with.
I have the luck to know such people, working not in the turkish, but in the greek tourism industry. They are so wise that i can never be, no matter how many books i read. Their constant fight to survive in a snob society, has made them focus on how to get better and prove that they are equals with the rest of us. Some of them did, some not. But do we all succeed in this life?
Recently, me and you mltm, exchanged a few pms, about somebody, remember? Take his example. Well educated, but still a freak and a stain for this society. Doesn't he prove alone that this whole theory about education and character does not have a logical basis?

Now then güezlim! (i might have just made this word up, forgive me if it is not a word at all! ) You are right about everything. Especially the 'snob' society. Nowhere have I seen this better than in turkey.

My friend Yakup came to hospital with me once. He was looking after me there and translating for me. when he saw all these pretty nurses (who frankly looked like soap opera stars) he was saying 'oy oy oy!' under his breath. These girls looked at him like he was a donkey dropping on their cute little designer shoes!

I will never forget the look on their faces as they shamelessly looked him up and down and made a decision about him based on his clothes, hair and accent. I wanted to slap their silly over made up faces.

I will never forget the look of pain and embarrassment on his face when he saw the way they treated him. Slap them? I wanted to beat their (tiny) brains out!

This was a man who had cradled me in his lap for 2 hours over a mountain in a cab, absorbing all the bumps and shocks of the car so that I would not be in more pain, who had been silently praying over me the whole time. Who had wiped my tears, made jokes, bought me water, stroked my head and just about done more for me than any one had ever done in my life. This was a man so kind, that even though I was suffering from a potentially embarrassing gynaecological problem, still translated everything without a blush. I cant tell you how much I hated those nurses for looking down their pretty noses at him and this happens all the time. This is one thing I do NOT like about Turkey. The class system is alive and well. I hope so much that his 12 months in england with me, will teach him to hold his head up in the face of this bigotry. Give him confidence in who he is as a person, not as a class of person.Above all, I hope his education and experience here will give him an opportunity to find a 'proper' job, with a decent employer.

Offff ya.....

I think the best snob society is in English with their (some!) snob people. ı am not angry with you Lyndie but ıt is my opinion. Not only your (some!)people are snob but also your goverment. Look at! what your goverment do in Iraq?
Have happiness with your friend in England. But you can't blame and judge Turkish for some nurses don't like your friend.

What a good way to make your point - Subconscious. You don’t like something that someone English says, so you decide to talk about Iraq. Do you think that the majority of English agree with our governments decision? Really, don’t get me started on what I think of the USA and British in Iraq… but at least we are happy to criticise our country and government, which is pretty healthy I think. Are you really so unable to argue your point that you resort to mud-slinging about war? I am sure I could sling some mud back to you if I were as insensitive and inarticulate as you.

Subconscious - my point, if you can understand, was...if you were talking about snobbery, what was the relevance in discussing Iraq? You ran out of arguments, so decided to use a different subject to anger the English eh? Your other comment about my parents does not make sense, sorry, and i wont give you the satisfaction of replying to such a childish, personal attack.