Quoting Daydreamer:

How liberal was the idea that it is natural for women to stay at home as they are the ones giving birth?

Still, I´m tempted to agree with you that you can´t call yourself liberal if you don´t accept other people´s choices in all aspects of life - be it careers, clothes, music or what they watch. (As long as it´s legal of course)

Quoting girleegirl:

What is the point here? Do you want people to say…YAY FOR KEITH, he supports equal rights? Or to call certain members to be banished? Or is it yet another diatribe from the same old crew.
Really….what is your point?

Quoting KeithL:

And I have been criticised for my views as close-minded and hypocritical. All of you who think you are free thinkers are only tolerent of people who think like you. How exactly is that liberal???

Quoting AEnigmamagnadea:

Quoting KeithL:

If freedom of choice is sexist than, yes, I am sexist.

Quoting AEnigmamagnadea:

Quoting KeithL:

But there is no need to ridicule women who also prefer this lifestyle.

Quoting AEnigmamagnadea:

Quoting libralady:

Quoting AEnigmamagnadea:

Forget the word "feminism" and just think "choice". I couldn´t care less if women want to take on traditional roles as housewives and mothers - it is their choice. What I really detest is when women defend that decision by condeming those who DON´T do the same as them and intimate that their children will suffer as a result and that their marriages are less happy, they are going against biology by having careers or by swapping roles of primary carer with their partner. These smug women fail to appreciate that the many freedoms they enjoy, even as housewives and mothers, are SOLELY DUE to the women they despise.

Quoting Daydreamer:

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting SuiGeneris:

oh cat you are soooo cimri!!! you add only 0?

Quoting Elisabeth:

Why don´t we argue about the shrinking role of men for a while? Do we really need them anymore? Can´t we just keep a few around as studs? This argument about women is getting old.

Quoting girleegirl:

Quoting Elisabeth:

GG we could start a "Man Farm".

Quoting girleegirl:

Quoting Elisabeth:

Let´s make it known up front that hairy men are not going to be allowd on the man farm...ok?

Quoting Elisabeth:

Quoting girleegirl: Quoting Elisabeth: GG we could start a "Man Farm". Hmmmm....I´m liking this. I will start perusing the picture section for candidates...........

Quoting girleegirl:

Quoting teaschip:

If being liberal is being open minded to anything, then what do you really stand for? I don´t see how anyone can be totally liberal.

Quoting Elisabeth:

We are looking for good genetic material...shouldn´t they be perfect from the get go???

Quoting mltm:

Are you as well aware that your comments about having a man farm, no hairy men etc., are offensive, and degrading? Think about men saying these kinds of crap things for women, how degrading.
You are probably having fun, but this kind of fun is not for mature women, I guess.

Quoting Elisabeth:

You´re right we should all be very serious and not have fun. Thanks for the reprimand...oh high and mighty mltm!

Quoting Elisabeth:

You´re right we should all be very serious and not have fun. Thanks for the reprimand...oh high and mighty mltm!

Quoting mltm:

Are you as well aware that your comments about having a man farm, no hairy men etc., are offensive, and degrading? Think about men saying these kinds of crap things for women, how degrading.
You are probably having fun, but this kind of fun is not for mature women, I guess.

Quoting teaschip:

You may prefer hairy men, but we don´t. Why is that immature.

Quoting teaschip:

You may prefer hairy men, but we don´t. Why is that immature.

Quoting mltm:

Quote:

Quoting mltm:

I said what needed to be said, and it was clear. I don´t like repeating myself.
Just try to think about it with a common sense, so that you will not post countless, useless posts about it.

Quoting AEnigmamagnadea:

Quote:

Quoting CANLI:

İ agree with mltm on that,actually gg there is no need to such list,just think how do you like men to adress women,talk about women,and how would you find it offencive,or let´s say not nice when they adress women at another ways,or else when men talk about women as sex objects for example and say they are just having fun we shouldnt be offended ?!
İts same also with men .

Quoting AEnigmamagnadea:

Your posts on this subject always make me sad Libralady - because everything you enjoy now, your career,even the right to walk into a pub and not be condemned for it, is because of women who would not just accept the "status quo" and fought for equal rights, despite being ridiculed and insulted. You really surprise me

Forget the word "feminism" and just think "choice". I couldn´t care less if women want to take on traditional roles as housewives and mothers - it is their choice. What I really detest is when women defend that decision by condeming those who DON´T do the same as them and intimate that their children will suffer as a result and that their marriages are less happy, they are going against biology by having careers or by swapping roles of primary carer with their partner. These smug women fail to appreciate that the many freedoms they enjoy, even as housewives and mothers, are SOLELY DUE to the women they despise.

Quoting mltm:

Are you as well aware that your comments about having a man farm, no hairy men etc., are offensive, and degrading? Think about men saying these kinds of crap things for women, how degrading.
You are probably having fun, but this kind of fun is not for mature women, I guess.

Quoting alameda:

Quoting girleegirl:

Of COURSE there is no need for a list! I was being sarcastic!
As for men discussing women...fine, go for it. I don´t get offended easily and I think it´s absurd that anyone would take this discussion seriously.

Quoting KeithL:

............But there is no need to ridicule women who also prefer this lifestyle.

Quoting mltm:

Quoting catwoman:

While of course a "man farm" is, hmmmm.... ... inappropriate, it is not comparable to a "woman farm" joke. Because in a system where "woman farms" are a reality (brothels), and women do have a lower social status, and where making fun of women is daily broadcasted by media, and where many kinds of violence against women are commonplace, when one makes fun of women, one is making fun of the class that is oppressed and doesn´t have a public voice. Making fun of men, by women, on the other hand, is like making fun of the upper class, which is safe and secure from any injustices done to them by women anyway.

Quoting KeithL:

In general, it would just be nice to see a little more respect and tolerence on the boards.
What continues to amaze me is that it is always the same people that target others and then complain when they receive nastygrams back...

Quoting girleegirl:

What would be better is if people learned to lighten up and not take things so seriously!
Cat, I have to say that you have been involved in many of these jokes in the past so now for you to say it is inappropriate.....seems a bit like you are just trying to placate some members.

Quoting catwoman:

Well, I really meant it in an abstract way. Theoretically, it is wrong to villify any group of people, but in practice I think it is not as bad to make fun of men, as it is (especially for men) to make fun of women in certain ways (I´m saying "in certain ways", because there are some things about women that are quite right to make fun of). Maybe ´inappropriate´ was a wrong choice of word. I don´t think of course there is anything wrong with your jokes.

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting CANLI:

Well,actually cat,i find myself not understanding well,having some jokes never harm in a limit but that men farm thing,yes i find it inappropriate
Will you accept same concept if it is a women farm ?!
İ guess i wont
And because no man complained that would make it appropriate ?!
Should we wait till they complain and then we start to say yes thats not appropriate ?!!!

Quoting catwoman:

You can go ahead and say that it´s inappropriate, but I don´t see why they shouldn´t be allowed to make that joke. Most people won´t find it inappropriate. What did they say? That they want a "man farm" of hairless men? Is that so horrible?

Quoting CANLI:

Are you kidding me ?! lol
Nope they said men farm of studs because we dont need them anymore ,is that appropriate ? lol
Look i dont mind making such jokes,actually ehhhmmm and more too,but not in forums !

Quoting CANLI:

İmplying that the men only job is to breed not offensive !
mmmm,ok then,i guess i did !

Quoting CANLI:

Cat its not about deleting or not deleting,obviously nothing said here needs to be deleted,the discussion here was if its appropriate to talk that way,or not for both men and women
As you said,it seems appropriate to some,and not to others
And as i am from that others part,i made myself clear about it,so i rest my case.

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting alameda:

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting alameda:

I most certainly did not. I have gone through all my posts and did not find any such a thing. Perhaps it was how you read things.

Quoting teaschip:

The conversation had to do with handsom and it is in the OFF TOPIC. So if anyone would be offended it would be handsome and since he has been forthcoming to all of us here about his hairyness, it should not be an issue.

Quoting catwoman:

Quoting thehandsom:

I must say that I find this thread and man farm thing idea quite abusive..

And my hairiness is being mentioned again and again..
My hairiness is a medical condition and not MY fault!!

I was teased all through my childhood and have only just learnt to accept it..
And now I am being ridiculed in public..

I never mentioned it before because I was too embarrassed but this time you people have gone too far..

Quoting alameda:

You are quite wrong...here is exactly what I wrote...(not said)..

"Women are not men, they are different. Here we are begining to find other ways to to do things. Women don´t best fit into the male work modes. Look for new ways to utilize the talents of your women, rather than trying to fit them into the male work mold. "

Then later I wrote this reply in response to a post from Handsom....

"As for me saying women don´t fit in to mens work modes, I believe that scientific research that has shown women and men are different, otherwise there would be only one sex, you know? What I do propose is finding, looking into what makes females unique and different, and then utilizing that knowledge. "

You know, until we become all unisex, I´ll stick by my post.

I find it incredible you have a difficult time realizing males and females are different.

Quoting girleegirl:

Quoting CANLI:

Are you kidding me ?! lol
Nope they said men farm of studs because we dont need them anymore ,is that appropriate ? lol
Look i dont mind making such jokes,actually ehhhmmm and more too,but not in forums !

Quoting lady in red:

GG - I think the joking may have gone too far. I feel really embarrassed to have been making fun of this poor man. Please have a little compassion and stop these hurtful comments.

Quoting girleegirl:

Quoting catwoman:

Actually, Alameda, science has not concluded ANYTHING about mental differences between men and women.

Quoting catwoman:

The only difference there is, is the one who gives birth to children. All the "information" about men and women being so much different is more of speculation then real knowledge and also, it is completely disregarding the fact that boys and girls are raised completely differently from day 0. You know, only 20 years ago they had scientific proof that girls should not run because their uterus will go to their heads and kill them.

Quoting lady in red:

Ermmm....that was NOT a suggestion.

Quoting alameda:

Quoting Leelu:

hahahaha .. what has happened to the forums? I thought it was hilarious the man farm etc .. then all of a sudden it went downhill .. where are the sense of humours?

Quoting Elisabeth:

Quoting mltm:

Ofcourse it´s ok to talk about everything including internet porn, female circumcision, burkas, or the closure of AKP etc, but if it comes to a level like, "ohh, we can include Tayyip Erdoğan into our man farm, he´s not so hairy, but not Abdullah Gül" (just an example), then it makes the difference.
Then, searching in the user pictures to find people for your fun, what will be the next? Can´t you just see it?
Is it so difficult to get the difference?

Quoting mltm:

Then, searching in the user pictures to find people for your fun, what will be the next? Can´t you just see it?
Is it so difficult to get the difference?

Quoting girleegirl:

Why is it that you pick this subject but say nothing about keith´s antics today, which were FAR more offensive????

Quoting lady in red:

They were JOKING, it was a JOKE - not a ´low-level discussion´. How do you not get this mltm? Or are we misinterpreting you and your comments are all tongue-in-cheek too?

Quoting Trudy:

I´m waiting for the functionality that censors words with *** when we use them....

Quoting girleegirl:

Quoting thehandsom:

I have already complained!!
How come my complain was not being registered?

Quoting Trudy:

Suddenly nagging and whining? I remember very clearly that you played the game along, you even posted pictures of ´yourself´ with a hairy skin and if a topic was bleeding to death, you dug it up again. Sorry, and you expect people to take this seriously, because you are the only man that complained? Grow up.

This complete discussion is in my view nearly about censorship, apparently some like that as a new functionality here. It has nothing to do with forum rules but indeed, as GG said in her other topic, with Mr. & Mrs. S.O. Humor. Well, as far as I see, they are gone for a very long time. Except for some, the protest about ´blond/dumb-women´-jokes (and also jokes, maybe not here, about female sexuality, rape and worse. Why not open a topic with a news flash to protest to that?) are a small trace comparing to the - o, so honest we defend men - protesters. It looks to me that many things can´t be said anymore because, oh oh , someone might have long toes! (Sorry, these ´it is so humiliating-texts´ really piss me off, it´s only protesting when it suits the protestor.)

Quoting Trudy:

Suddenly nagging and whining? I remember very clearly that you played the game along, you even posted pictures of ´yourself´ with a hairy skin and if a topic was bleeding to death, you dug it up again. Sorry, and you expect people to take this seriously, because you are the only man that complained? Grow up.

Quoting girleegirl:

Quoting mltm:

Quoting thehandsom:

Thanks for the clarification GG..

Quoting girleegirl:

Quoting girleegirl:

But again, I think this is really quite silly for this to go on for so long. What´s more interesting it that none of you that are so offended by this JOKE seem to have been offended by keith´s personal, crude comments to another member. Strange priorities.

Quoting Elisabeth:

You mods have all gone NUTS! (No offense to nuts)

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting lady in red:

Quoting CANLI: Quoting Elisabeth: You mods have all gone NUTS! (No offense to nuts) mmmmmm,not nice Lise,not nice really

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting lady in red: Quoting CANLI: Quoting Elisabeth: You mods have all gone NUTS! (No offense to nuts) mmmmmm,not nice Lise,not nice really I would like to let Elisabeth know that I am not the least offended if she calls me nuts! . Is it an offensive word in some other culture?

Quoting catwoman:

What has this proven? Nothing. Absolutely no connection between this and whether men are capable of raising children and whether women are capable of having professional careers.

Quoting girleegirl:

Alameda, seriously, maybe you need to do some self searching. You come off as an incredibly bitter and angry person. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe the misunderstandings with you stem from your words and actions?
I know it takes you a long time to write your posts but it seems to me that you are the one that needs to take a bit more time and care to ensure your message gets across the way you intend since it seems you are always “misunderstood”. This post is one of your most arrogant and insulting yet. Catwoman is an intelligent adult and she (or anyone else here for that matter) does not need to be told “read very slowly”!

Quoting alameda:

I apologize for troubling you with my style of writing. I realize sometimes it´s difficult for some to digest more than one vowel or syllable in a sentance, however, seeing as this is a language learning site, I don´t think it´s unreasonable to use them.

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting alameda:

Quoting Trudy: Quoting alameda: I apologize for troubling you with my style of writing. I realize sometimes it´s difficult for some to digest more than one vowel or syllable in a sentance, however, seeing as this is a language learning site, I don´t think it´s unreasonable to use them. And the prize for the most arrogant posting of 2008 goes to: ALAMEDA!!!!

Quoting Trudy:

Ever heard of the French saying ´C´est le ton qui fait la musique´?

Quoting Leelu:

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting SuiGeneris:

we simply call it "attitude"