Totally agree with you  !

Ýslam gave us our rights, and we shouldnt allow people to take ANY of them away from us !

ALLAH gave us rights, no human should have the right to take any of them away !

We can stick to our holly Kuran and keep those rights..yes ?

PS: Ým really out of here now, just couldnt resist lol

I don´t think anyone here wants to take your rights away. What I can´t accept is lack of choice - like the fact that you´re sentenced to death if you convert from Islam. If a woman wears burka, doesn´t work and believes she´s lower in hierarchy than men then she probably deserves what she gets. But what rights are you talking about if you can get flogged for not wearing burka, beaten for disobeying your husband or killed if you lose your faith? Are those Islamic laws? If so, congratulations for a breakthrough in human rights.

The way you live your life should be a mixture of ciurcumstances and your choices. If your only choice is either to conform or die, it makes me question the value of such life. It´s not life, it´s slavery. If you choose to be Muslim, wear a scarf, refrain from pork, wash all the places you should and pray 5 times a day - there´s nothing wrong with that. it´s what you chose and what you think is best for you. If you think you are inferior to men, it´s your feeling, but don´t make me believe that so am I.

To sum up, if your choice is taken away from you, your life is just slavery. Sure, with the time you might learn to accept it but it is sick anyway.

 Ã dont know if you were addressing this to me or to farukdemirhan DD

Ýf you are a believer in any sort of religion, not just Ýslam you would have your choices of course but within the rules of that religion.

Ýts ridiculous to join a religion and to claim believing in it, but at same time not practice its rules, in that case you should pick another one that suites you, and if there is none then you can stop believing if you choose.

Religions dont take your freedom away, or your choices, they giving you them within their rules.

Same as law and countries, you live in the country you live in, free and have your choices within the law of that country

Ýf you obay the law that doesnt mean you are not free or your choices have been taken away from you !

Ýn my comment above i meant, we as Muslims have rules by Ýslam, and sometimes they are actually taking away from us by the power of anything else ´law in some countries, man in another, society..etc´ and they take Ýslam an excuse for that !

So by same excuse , by the rules of Quran then we as women shouldnt allow this.

Ý addressed that to  farukdemirhan and i believe she as Muslim would understand what i meant very well !

Ýf they take those rights claiming that its religion then by that religion and the proof of our law´ Quran´ we must demands those rights and get them back not just watch and believe they do the right thing!

We can read, we have brains, so we should know and understand very well what is ours and what is not and not just taking anything been told to us as granted !

How come ALLAH gave us rights and others take them away ?!

We believe in ALLAH and Mohammed SAV not anyone else...and that is our law our limits to say what are our rights and what are our duties as women !

 Actually in Quran it said no one is superior or better than the other ´men or women´ except by their good nature

Meaning for example judge is better than a thif no matter if the judge male or female , white black ...etc or the thif is male/female, white/ black ..etc

And for abudy, no one ´´muslims´´ against applying the islamic law as long as you do it without any personal issues !

As for converts are punished by death its same case also in Christianity, they just dont apply their religion rules at the West thats all.

 Still in here , they do away from the authorities, Christians converted to Ýslam dont lead a happy life if they managed to escape with their lives !

And as for Saudi women,no one wants to see them, thats not the point, but at Rasul SAV time, they were not hidding women so no one would see and claimed its for their own goods!

Women used to walk alone without any guards or men being along with them, had their own decisions too in life and work!

Who made men the superior to decide what should women do or dont ?!

Ýf its not allowed that women do Hij while they wearing Niqab then when do you force niqab on them by law ?!

Ýt HÝJ where one go to ALLAH house, and ALLAH said no niqap there, so why on earth they are forced to cover themselves else where?!

No place is more holier than Mecca !

And in what book it says women should be beaten for not wearing even hijab not niqab ?

Why the El amr Bil ma3roof  ´ the religious police´ hitting women who dont wear it ?

We have Quran between us, why dont we take it as a judge then ?

Ýts a joke that you blame Fatima´s family for allowing her to watch the TV and thats why she got brainwashed.

You cant shut their eyes too, can you ?!

OK, she would read Quran, Sunna, sira and she would understand she has rights more than she granted, then what would be your excuse for that ?!

Stop women from reading Quran and knowing their religion?

Ý dont say Fatima is right, im sure there are many good Saudi men over there, as there is many bad Turks too same as every where, there are goods and bads but i believe as she is living the extreme she also has developed extreme thoughts of her own.

And its not healthy.

And about that driving thing...actually i read some reasons for it that i cant even write them here !

Why do you think our Saudi friends here seem to differ from the rest, even from other moslems...when it comes to understanding and interpreting Islamic rules.

Could it be that they are full of crap from another teaching, which may be somewhat different from Islam. What exactly is a Vahhabi?

 there is a HAdith that our mother "ayiþa " says : "in hajj we were discovering our faces all the time , but when we passed by strangers we cover our faces "

that will answer you´re questions .

and as you know we take our religion not just from quran , but from quran and sunna , even that we have evidence from quran that order women to cover their faces , i´m sure you know it , but some people wants to explain the quran as they like not as it is right .

and what is the advantage of wearing hejab without covering face ? cover the hair ? how cares about hair .

alhejab has existed to prevent stranges curious stares , does that works with turkish hejab ?

i saw turkish women here in madina wear turkish hejab , they are more beautiful and attractive  than with no hejab .

you know , not all women´s hairs are  beauty , but their faces often like a piece of full moon , so they should cover faces to Achieve the advantage of wearing hejab .

you have a good experience in arabic pronuonsing (as you said ma3roof ) , but for sorry you have no idea about what (El amr Bil ma3roof  ) does in matter of fact .

all you know is what you hear from media , which attacks (El amr Bil ma3roof  ) round the clock .

if you´re Foreigner and none muslim , they will understand your religion and never talk to you .

if you´re Foreigner muslim , they will understand your (mathhab) and never talk to you .

give me one example of any turkish women (or any Foreigner wonen) how stoped by (El amr Bil ma3roof  ) because of her hejab, if you find one i give a guarantee when she sues them she will win the case .

if a saudi woman  shows in public without covering face they will come and ask her politely to cover her face - as it is the low in saudi - if she would´t they will give her a little advice about hejab , nothing further . unless - like some bad girls - she´s being immoral ,or insists to do bad things in public they will ask her to go to thier department with police man and let her sign in a piece of paper that she won´t never do it again and call her father , let him know about the case , and take her home .

i challenge anyone to bring one honest case of the religious police´ hitting women because of not covering the face .

the problem as i mentiond is the media who fights to death trying to  suspend (El amr Bil ma3roof  ) to do what they like  , and they won´t inshallah ,   the religious police means protect the morality , if they are suspended you will hear about strange cirmes in the land of to holy mosques .

don´t you believe that in islam the parents have the full responsibility  of their family ? that is what alqur´an and alsunna say .

so , the family must protect his members from seeing or hearing or reading (even eating ) anything that damage their  mind , body and moral . otherwise what is  the responsibility of parents then ? feed thier kids and forecd them to go to school and sleep early and thats it ?

i don´t say shut their eyes , but there is educational ways to prevet the kids from bad stuff  and bring them a good Alternatives , so they will rise in clean and pure Environment .

I happen to think this is backwards..these women get more stares with them on. 

After reading some of your posts it sounds like our media is right on target with alot of their reportings...

 it´s not your media , it´s ours for sorry

Canli, that exactly was my point - if you are free to CHOOSE your religion, it means you make a deliberate decision how you want your life to look. If you are ok with Islamic rules and want to follow them because of your personal choice, it´s fine. Every person decides what´s best for them and what kind of things they want to give up to have the life they want. I was speaking against countries where you are not free to choose your religion or you´re facing death. That is something I cannot comprehend.

I am somewhat surprised that you mentioned that conversion from christianity is also punishable by death. I have never heard about that. I tried to google it but without success. As you know, although I was raised in a Catholic family, I became an atheist and so I´m not really knowledgeable about Christianity except from what I learnt at religion classes.

Can´t say that I have ever known a Christian to convert and be killed, not in modern day society..