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Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts
(14 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
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1.       Trudy
7887 posts
 15 Sep 2008 Mon 10:34 pm

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

 

It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs the courts, said he had taken advantage of a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996.

 

More: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4749183.ece

 

*********

I could not believe my eyes when I read this and I totally agree with Elena from Virginia who says: I´m utterly shocked by this. While I´m all for religious freedom, the law of the land should be just that: one law, the same for everyone.

2.       libralady
5152 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 12:15 am

 

Quoting Trudy

ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

 

It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siddiqi, whose Muslim Arbitration Tribunal runs the courts, said he had taken advantage of a clause in the Arbitration Act 1996.

 

More: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4749183.ece

 

*********

I could not believe my eyes when I read this and I totally agree with Elena from Virginia who says: I´m utterly shocked by this. While I´m all for religious freedom, the law of the land should be just that: one law, the same for everyone.

 

 

No I can´t believe my eyes either as this is the very first I have heard of this!  There has been mumblings but nothing has been decided I am sure, and there has been nothing on the news.   Hopefully this is just over zealous journalism!

 

3.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 09:49 am

this sounds like a political move to give a rise to nazism. no other plausible explanation.

 

 

can smn tell me who asked for sharia courts in England?

4.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 10:25 am

This article is from February but it is still interesting.  I didn´t know that the Beth Din was in operation in the UK and has been for many many years.  I haven´t heard any up to date news apart from that which Trudy has given here and I don´t know the "nitty gritty" of the proposals.   However, if they are similar to the way the Beth Din works then it should compliment "the laws of the land" without too much of a problem.  

 

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7233040.stm

5.       libralady
5152 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 02:52 pm

 

Quoting tamikidakika

this sounds like a political move to give a rise to nazism. no other plausible explanation.

 

 

can smn tell me who asked for sharia courts in England?

 

 Who do you think Tamikidakika?  Muslims (not all I must quickly point out), but those that think they are hard done by in our society who do not like living by the laws of the land they have chosen to live in but want their own rules and laws.

 

Do you think Turkey will be incorporating some of the UK laws to take account of the number of Brits living there? (a tongue in cheek comment, not meant to offend Turks, but just an example)

6.       libralady
5152 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 02:53 pm

 

Quoting peacetrain

   However, if they are similar to the way the Beth Din works then it should compliment "the laws of the land" without too much of a problem.  

 

 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7233040.stm

 

 Do you seriously think this would be the case?  I don´t think so!

7.       CANLI
5084 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 03:12 pm

So there are already Jewish courts in Britain applying the jewish rules?

8.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 03:21 pm

 

Quoting libralady

 Do you seriously think this would be the case?  I don´t think so!

 

 I´m not going to get into a long debate about this Libralady, but I´m wondering what is is that I said that warranted an "!".  I don´t know all the facts yet but if it is conducted in a similar manner to the Beth Din, then no, I don´t see a problem.  It´s not about chopping people´s hands off or dealing with criminal law (as far as I know, as I said I don´t know all the details yet). 

 

For example, if a muslim couple on the verge of divorce feel they can deal with their problems/and issues more comfortably through the new facilities, then I don´t see a problem in allowing them to do this.  If they are prepared to abide by the decisions made, I don´t see a problem.  They don´t HAVE to go through this route, but the fact that they do means they are prepared to abide by the outcome.  I should imagine this will make for more swift proceedings for them.  I think anything agreed also has to then go through UK legal channels to "rubber stamp" it. 

 

As I´ve said, I´m not sure of all the "nitty gritty", so I´m not going to be negative about it because all that does is whip up a frenzy. 

 

 As you say perhaps it´s over zealous journalism.

 

 

 

9.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 03:34 pm

 

Quoting CANLI

So there are already Jewish courts in Britain applying the jewish rules?

 

 According to the BBC new article yes.  This may also help:

 

"Litigation

 

In Jewish Law, Jewish parties are forbidden to take their civil disputes to a secular court and are required to have those disputes adjudicated by a Beth Din. The London Beth Din sits as an arbitral tribunal in respect of civil disputes and the parties to any such dispute are required to sign an Arbitration Agreement prior to a hearing taking place. The effect of this is that the award given by the Beth Din has the full force of an Arbitration Award and may be enforced (with prior permission of the Beth Din) by the civil courts. At a hearing before the Dayanim, the parties do not require legal representation although they are allowed to have legal or other representation."

 

taken from : http://www.theus.org.uk/the_united_synagogue/the_london_beth_din/litigation/

 

I forgot where I read it but this has happened for over a century at least (I´ll have to look it up again).

 

  I suppose it doesn´t get publicity because it works within the Jewish community and probably doesn´t affect not Jews.  It seems they are "forbidden to take their civil disputes to a secular court" but with the permission of the Beth Din may have the "Arbitration Award. . . enforced by the civil courts".

 

It is quite possible the Shariar Court may work in a similar manner, I´m not sure, I´ll have to do more research.

10.       CANLI
5084 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 03:46 pm

 

Quoting peacetrain

 It seems they are "forbidden to take their civil disputes to a secular court" but with the permission of the Beth Din may have the "Arbitration Award. . . enforced by the civil courts".

 

 

 

 This made by the law,or its their rule ?

İ mean,is it in the British law that its forbidden for them to take their civil disputes to a secular court because they already have their own courts,or its by their rules ?

11.       tamikidakika
1346 posts
 16 Sep 2008 Tue 08:08 pm

 

Quoting libralady

Who do you think Tamikidakika? Muslims (not all I must quickly point out), but those that think they are hard done by in our society who do not like living by the laws of the land they have chosen to live in but want their own rules and laws.

 

Do you think Turkey will be incorporating some of the UK laws to take account of the number of Brits living there? (a tongue in cheek comment, not meant to offend Turks, but just an example)

 

I don`t remember the Muslims` in Britain flooding into the streets and making a riot to have the sharia laws in there.

 

and as we don`t have the sharia rule here, why would we adopt the laws of UK.? That problem seems to be exclusive to you.

 

Congratulations on your new laws btw. Hayirli olsun!{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

12.       libralady
5152 posts
 17 Sep 2008 Wed 12:24 pm

 

Quoting tamikidakika

I don`t remember the Muslims` in Britain flooding into the streets and making a riot to have the sharia laws in there.

 

and as we don`t have the sharia rule here, why would we adopt the laws of UK.? That problem seems to be exclusive to you.

 

Congratulations on your new laws btw. Hayirli olsun!{#lang_emotions_lol_fast}

 

 My comment was more on the hypothetical position and not particulary aimed at Turks, just seeking your opinion really. 

 

No I have not noticed riots, just the odd bombing or two.  So once we have Muslims governing themselves under Sharia Law how soon would it be before they want to change our constitution?  I can´t see that if we went to Pakistan for instance, that we would be able to introduce our divorce laws so why should they introduce their laws here in the UK?

 

Please anyone, tell me any country in the World that would allow non-nationals to introduce their own laws?

 

 

13.       libralady
5152 posts
 17 Sep 2008 Wed 12:29 pm

 

Quoting peacetrain

 

 The potential repercussion bother me a great deal hence the "!"  As you probably know I am not a religous person fullstop, so do not welcome other religions forcing their laws or beliefes on people who don´t want them.

 

If they want to use this as a method of arbitration between themselves, which I suspect already goes on, then fine, but it should no way enter into our legal system. 

14.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 17 Sep 2008 Wed 01:06 pm

Quote: Tamikidakika

I don`t remember the Muslims` in Britain flooding into the streets and making a riot to have the sharia laws in there.

 

Quote: libralady

No I have not noticed riots, just the odd bombing or two. 

Libra, your reply to Tam´s statement seems to be inferring that the bombs were some kind of method to force the introduction of sharia law in the UK.  I never read about that at the time.  If your remark was some kind of "tongue in cheek remark" then I don´t think it was in good taste.

 

Quote: libralady

non-Nationals

I´m not sure I admire this terminology.  There are very many muslims living in this country who have British passports.  Many from Commonwealth countries were invited to the UK generations ago.  Remember how these countries became part of our Commonwealth. 

 

Quote: libralady

so do not welcome other religions forcing their laws or beliefes on people who don´t want them.

As far as I´m aware, non Muslims will not be subjected to these laws.  As the Beth Din is there for the Jewish community, so Sharia will be there for the Muslim community, should they wish to take advantage of that facility.  I don´t think it will be compulsory for Muslims to use Sharia.

 

Quote: libralady

If they want to use this as a method of arbitration between themselves, which I suspect already goes on, then fine, but it should no way enter into our legal system. 

I haven´t had time to research further , but it´s my understanding that whatever decisions are made have to be ratified by our country´s legal system.

 

Quote:libralady

I can´t see that if we went to Pakistan for instance, that we would be able to introduce our divorce laws so why should they introduce their laws here in the UK?

You are assuming all Muslims are not British citizens.  I should imagine if you became a citizen of another country you would have some say in what goes on there.  That said, I don´t think the "hypothetical" scenario you mention is a good argument.

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