Turkey is suffering from an epidemic that seems to be spiraling out of control. Like many developing countries, as the level of wealth and standards of education have increased, there has been a concomitant reluctance to give birth naturally and a staggering rise in the number of Caesarean section births. According to Health Ministry data, 288,000 of the total 706,000 births in Turkey were through C-section operations in 2006, while 251,000 of the 766,000 births in 2007 were C-sections. 

More: http://www.sundayszaman.com/sunday/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=153801

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I don´t understand why women would take the risk of infections after a C-section. If they want to give birth painless, why not just epidural anaesthetics?

Assuming that C-section is painless is wrong! True, the 45 minutes of the surgery is painless (with the exception of a needle down your spine) but the recovery is disasterous. I hope they understand that the next day they´ll have to get up and take care of their newborn. Also, the cather will be removed and they´ll have to go to the lavatory although the pain will be immense. Getting up will make them feel like their wound is about to break open and this shall continue for about a week. The next week will still be painful and although painkillers do help, it will take about six weeks to function normally (so was I told as myself I´m in week four). I wouldn´t know for sure but I reckon natural delivery is painful for a shorter period of time.

You had one, DD?

Unfortunately

yep looks like they will live the trend from all over the world here too...they dont think about pain after Caesarean...but you must think too...if you had 1 time dangerous birth, they wont let you easily born in normal way again... if you had 1 time Caesarean, they will say you its too dangerous get the baby in normal way now and they will say you must get Caesarean again...

This non-medical "trend" for C-Sections makes me so angry.  It is selfish, expensive and indulgent to have your baby by choice this way.  Many people don´t realise the risk they are taking with their baby.   Contractions in a normal birth are there for a reason and benefit the baby physically in numerous ways, including breathing.  It is extremely traumatic for a baby to be suddenly grabbed out of the womb, with no warning.

My sister works in a special care baby unit and they are horrified at the increase in caesarean births and the knock on affect of babies being rushed down to their specialised unit for treatment.  

The majority of the non-medical caesareans are for vanity and sexual reasons only (to keep their vaginal muscles tight) and was started by celebrities - perhaps they are just too lazy to do their pelvic floor exercises...

As far as I can see, it doesn´t say anything as to the reasons for the high occurence of C-sections.

I have two close friends who both recently had C-sections for very other reasons than the article states. They both live in a rural area and were indeed very afraid of "giving birth" in this unnatural way. Sometimes it´s the doctor´s request and that should be taken into considderation before jumping to conclusions.

 I made it very clear that I was talking about non-medical c-sections...

 My comment was not directed toward you, it was just a general clarification.

I think that worrying about these kinds of problems is indulgent in itself. And... sexuality is an important part of life, you know?

 +100000000000 as i am sapik hee hee

OUCH!!!!

You know.... I think both ways are so unfair and soo cruel!!!

OH MAN!!

I really dont know how women have been doing it for centuries!!!!

Just imagining makes me wanna faint!!

Well, the first ´pregnant man´ already exists in the US....   Shall we women swap places for some centuries with men? They ´do´ the pregnancy and we earn the money (more often then we already do of course). That´ll make a huge difference I guess....

Yeah but Oprahs man/woman/it(???) person is still a woman just a breastless, testosterone self injecting one !!!

he/she/it is still gonna have the baby the normal way ( i think)

or did he/she/it already have it?

i didnt see anything in the news

Oh my god!  Are you serious?

You would put your child in danger to ensure you gave maximum pleasure to your man?

This is feminism?

Ever heard of pelvic floor exercises?

Who the hell cares. There are millions of babies being born by cessarian section and they all seem to be just fine!

And, I am not representing any dogma of feminism... I am only myself and represent my own feminism, so it is nobody´s business to tell me what kind of feminist I am or I am not!!!

How should I say this.... ´it also pleases the woman´! And... and... there is more to it then just some stretch of vagina.

After all, I may revise my opinions after spending time with OB/GYN! I´ll let you know then.

I have had two, 30 years and 28 years ago.  Both for medical reasons and I have this say on the matter.

30 years ago, I had to request a bikini cut other wise I would have have a scar from belly button down to .......... and this was performed under aenesthetic.  Just going under was a horrific experience and when I woke, it was like being cut in half with a burning knife.  I stayed in hospital 10 days (that was the norm then) and I could not breast feed, as the hormones did not kick in straight away.

As for pain after, I don´t really remember too much after the initial waking up and I was back to normal within a short time, 6 weeks and I had my normal figure back including strong stomach muscles.

2nd time, I had an epidural and I can say the pleasure of seeing my son born, with no pain at all.  I was fortunate according the DD´s account, that I did not have any particular pain after the epidural wore off.  Hospital for 7 days and back to normal within 4 weeks.

I would have preferred natural delivery but it was not to be.  Why someone would choose to have a major operation, all your major stomach muscles are cut through, and your womb is weakened for any further pregancies beats me! 

 Not entirely a man, she did not go through the full transition to become a man, hence teh pregnancy as her/his womb and reproductive organs still exist.  The thoughts of the outcome for this child do not bear thinking about!

Sorry: Just saw a post above.

Women who choose caesarean births double the risk of death and illness to themselves and the baby, a new study has found. Doctors are now urging women to give birth naturally if they can.

The report published yesterday in the British Medical Journal found non-emergency caesareans were linked to twice the risk of death, hysterectomy, blood transfusions and admission to intensive care, compared to women who had a vaginal birth.

There was a five times higher risk of having to have antibiotic treatment after birth. There also is a 70 per cent higher chance of a baby born by either elective or medically-advised caesarean dying before discharge from hospital.

Ahh well .... just so long as your sex life is unaffected eh?

Why are you so worried about these women and their risk of death and illness? They are not threatening you because you disagree with them, right? Then what´s the big deal?

And I highly doubt that the motivation for these operations is ´unaffected sex life´. Anyway... seems like we haven´t had a good argument here for a while!

• I care because, as I said, my sister works in a Special Care Baby unit and they have seen a huge increase of medical emergencies arising from the increase in elective caesarean births. 
• I care because vanity and bodily perfection have become the new god - even at the expense of risking lives.
• And.... I care because, like it or not, people on this site see you as their "feminist representative" and assume your views are those of all feminists.
• And I care because I enjoy a good argument with you

Frankly I don´t give a damn about them - they know the risks.  However, I do give a damn about the babies, who have no say in the matter!

Regarding #1: I will see it myself soon... I don´t believe this statistic very much... but I´m naturally a skeptic, so you might be right about it...

Regarding #2: I do agree with this... and I have no words to express my disgust towards it... but, let´s always keep in mind who we are dealing with and what the alternatives throughout ages have been.

Regarding #3: Do they? Since when? Well...... I am officially telling them not to! Because it´s against my own feminist views for people to do that!

Regarding #4: The pleasure is mutual!

 Are you pregnant?

NO!

I´d never have opted for a section and if it hadn´t been for medical reasons, I´d be happy to have had my baby the natural way. I wouldn´t care about pelvic muscles getting stretched - I seriously doubt they can become very loose after having one or two babies. Of course, if you´re planning ten then you may risk losing the pleasure of sex. Yet, I´ve never heard of women´s muscles stretching so much after one or two kids that sex is no longer fun I wouldn´t judge women who want to stay nice and tight for their partners - it´s their choice, just as it´s their choice to bottlefeed in order to avoid breast deformation, just as it is their choice to inject sillicone and colagene in all possible places. But if somebody wants to do it to avoid pain - sorry, that´s not the way

 What a pity, little kittens are so sweet.... most of the time.....

 I just find it hilarious that two woman are arguing about something they have no experience of, only hearsay and conjecture!

My life was SAVED by having a C-Section!  Please let me tell you (Wartrain) the main reason for c-sections in my hospital was due to the induction of labour, which was a decision by the doctors for their convenience.  It was something like 1 in 5 induced labours ended in c-section, and it was these people whose lives were put at risk.  I spent 3 months in hospital so I am speaking from experience.

Please go and argue about something you do know about.

A Turkish friend of mine had to have an emergency C section last year.  Her labour had started but it was progressing slowly and she was in a great deal of pain, so an inducing agent was introduced.  Immediately, the baby showed signs of distress and the mother became unconscious. They were rushed to the OT.

Thankfully, both mother and baby survived but it was a distressing experience for the family.

I have absolutely no experience with C-sections but I can tell you that a vaginal delivery can be an uncomfortable experience to recover from as well.  I had to sit quite "gingerly" for about 2 weeks after giving birth....and for your ladies who have had vaginal deliveries....I don´t need to tell you why....for those who have not....I will let that be a surprise.

I just would hate to have to take care of a surgical wound AND a new baby!  As for sex....your partner won´t be getting any for a while anyway, so who cares.  All I can tell you is that things DO go back.  Sometimes it just takes time!  As for breastfeeding....womens breasts are destined to deflate and fall south...get over it and buy a nice bra!

AAhhh!!

why do they aways sugar coat everything on TV???

I guess they don´t want the truth about the horrors of childbirth to get out...but I am here to tell you ladies.....it´s horrible....its REALLY REALLY HORRIBLE! 

 How many kids you want, Doudi? About 6?

Thx for the heads up!!!

my mom said she just took this shot called epi smthg i dunno and she felt nthg but she said with my brother itw as too late and lets just say my brother still has a really big head!!

More like ZeRO!!!!!

never knew it was this terrible, even with modern medicine! what did ppl do long ago???

this is soo cruel

women give so much ....

Well doudi, in spite of the pain, having a baby is an amazing experience.  Eventually, you do forget about it....and then the sometimes inevitable happens....we do it again.    Women are amazingly resilient and forgiving.    

I know!

And men complain...

If they only knew!!!

 That would be an epidural!  It is an injection of sorts, into the spine and they have to mind the spinal cord, which then numbs from the breasts down.  To check they poke you with needles and say stupid things like "can you feel that"

Yeah!! I heard that if they out it int he wrong place, you can get paralyzed!!!

Again! How much we sacrifice and give.....

YOU CHICKEN!

Welcome back Lis, I am glad you and your family are okay

Thanks....but I am NO CHICKEN!  Just been there and done that!! 

You are!!!! You are a bed Colonal Sanders

 OFFFFF!!  Don´t make me get angry and derail you, WarTrain!  I will be forced to post some vicious lie about the organization which can not be named and THEN I will POST MY OPINION!!

You would not dare!!!

Poke you with needles? That must be the famous British Sense of Humour Here they spray a cold liquid first on your arm and then on the numb area. I hope they´re not painting your toes as a joke as well

Horrible but can you give us the degree, it is comparable to what in your case?

And people if you know: Are there any natural ways to decrease the amount of pain of the natural birth, are there any special exercices for this etc, and I heard that giving birth in water helps a lot. And does the pain depend on the anotomy of the body, on the psychology of the woman etc..., or is it inevitably painful?

 Right, SORRY!  I don´t want to get in any trouble again.....I am usually such a nice girl

 Contradiction in terms, Elisabeth?

 Perhaps....I think Admin needs to add a little devil smiley to the smiley menu....

Do you have a suggestion for a specific smiley?

 Perhaps something with horns and a pitchfork?

I agree with you mtlm, it all depends on the anatomy of the woman.

In my case YES, it was painful but not HORRIBLE!!.. Maybe I was luckier than Elisabeth .

My baby was born 4 hours after I arrived to the hospital, everything was too fast that I did not need the epidural(lucky me )  The hardest part was after the labor, when I had to deal with “the healing” ....since my baby was too big (9 pounds) the doctor said he needed to cut a little ....a little??? no way!! that was way too much 

 Personally, I think it is inevitably painful.  Labor was hard, especially during transition and delivery was even more painful.  I had a difficult recovery, because I tore during delivery in addition to having an episiotomy.  There are also other problems due to the force of pushing during childbirth which I care not to mention .  I took several childbirth classes and tried every breathing technique I was taught.  It worked to a degree but I still had a conciderable amount of pain.  I am a relatively tall woman with an average frame...but I am not sure if it helped or not.  I have known many women who are smaller than me who had a much easier time....I was in labor for 36 hours.  With all this said, I would still rather have a natural childbirth than a C-section if given the choice.  As much time as it took me to heal, I can´t imagine recovering from surgery with a little baby to take care of ..... my hat is off to you ladies who tough it out!

When I read this I´m so happy that years ago I decided ´to have the pleasure without the problems´...

 i think i was relatively lucky when it came to labour....... first one was 4 hours and only used the tens machine (little electric pulses to build up you pain threshold)

2nd was in labour for 2 hours and only just made it to hospital.....he he ......nearly born in carpark...i don´t remember the pain being severe but i think the joy and elation of this new little person just cancels out any pain.......

mmmm must be my child bearing hips

I wanted to say that this is bull! There is absolutely NO difference for the baby which way it comes out!!! C-sections are twice as dangerous to the mothers though, that is what many people don´t realize.