Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has stormed off the stage at the World Economic Forum in Davos after an argument with Israel´s president.

Mr Erdogan clashed with Shimon Peres in a discussion on the recent fighting in the Gaza Strip, telling him: "You are killing people."
Mr Peres said Mr Erdogan would have done the same had rockets hit Istanbul.

...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/davos/7859417.stm

Wow!!

Hihihi, I was just going to quote the same article!

Palestinian Fishermen Resist Water Cannon Assault

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PVoHhuZqrQ

Yes...interestingly....

Istael May Retaliate Against Turkey by Recognizing the Armenian Genocide

..............so it seems truth isn´t the issue.

why should someone hit Ýstanbul by rockets....(some people lose brain in their late years)

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ITWw9b0k7cE

Is this a good thing that he stormed off?

I don´t know, for some reason, politicians that have no control over their emotions make me a bit nervous.

 I understand where you are coming from, but this proves they are real people who have emotions! 

I agree with you..

And also, I think, he is playing into internal politics as well. Because there will be local elections very soon..

I am sure Turkish foreign diplomats are tearing their hair off right now..

 not good politics maybe but good viewing! At least we are talking about what is happening!

yeah..No matter what he does, he will never be good for you eh? would you like it more if he just accepted the way Peres talked to him?  i am proud that he did such a thing unlike other arse lickers. i love him tonight vallahi billahi içimin yaðlarý eridi

I dont know the details really..

But I just saw in the news that Perez called him and apologized..

And also I saw that Erdogan was saying ´He, Perez, should have realized, he was not speaking to a chief of a tribe, he was speaking to the prime minister of Turkey´.

As far as democratisation of Turkey is concerned and also when you compare him and his goverments with the others, clearly he is one of the best prime ministers in decades in Turkey..

I felt really proud when they rejected USA demand for using Turkey´s soil to attack Iraq for example.. Economic growt, passing laws about  freedoms, making 301 in effective, supporting the prosecuters about ergenekon case etc..

They are all applausable.

I am glad he spoke out against Israel´s execution of over a thousand Gazans. It is about time somebody started calling a spade a spade with respect to Zionism.

 Some people no matter what aged there are have never had a brain to lose

It seems a strange thing for Peres to say because a bomb of the same kind of size as the Hamas rockets did go off in Istanbul within the last year.

Perez is no spring chicken, he now knows that something has changed.

He has already apologized.

do not make a big deal about it. Erdogan was angry at the moderator. the moderator would not let him talk. the modertor stopped him then held his arm. he then let him have one minute then moderator said ok u have one minute, erdogan did not care, he tried to finish his reply to israeli president, and the moderator cut him short again. he got up upset with the moderator. later the israeli president called erdogan and apologize and told him, sorry he did not mean to talk like that to the turkish PM, he wasnt talking about him.

the moderator being american wanted the israeli president to have the last word.

 Exactly, it is about politics and the ´issue´ is entirely politics.  In the cold war Soviet Strategistics talked about the "correlation of forces" which meant waging war by political means such as this.  

 Sorry for the somewhat redundant post, but the quote from the reference above makes the point magnificantly.

"Turkish leaders may wish to remember that the last time they irritated a prominent Jewish-American congressman, he retaliated by supporting congressional action on the Armenian Genocide. Cong. Tom Lantos, a Holocaust survivor and a staunch opponent of the recognition of the Armenian Genocide, surprised everyone in 2005 when he voted in favor of a congressional resolution on the Armenian Genocide in the House International Relations Committee. Lantos disclosed that he was backing the Armenian resolution in order to teach the Turks a lesson for not supporting the U.S. on the eve of the Iraqi War."

Oh, I don´t live in his district.  I never voted for him!

Turkey´s PM has received a hero´s welcome on his return to Istanbul

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/davos/7859815.stm

The video is not complete and it´s strange how they cut and softened his words.

RT Erdoðan to Peres:

"Your voice is very high. You are older than me, and I know that it´s because of your pyschology of guilt. My voice won´t be so high. Know this like that. Speaking of killing you know very well how to kill people.I know very well how you killed, how you shot children on the beaches. I remember two former prime ministers in your country who had said very important words to me. You have prime ministers who said "I felt myself somewhat happier" when they were able to enter Palestine on tanks. You have prime ministers who said "when I enter Palestine I become happy". And you´re giving me numbers. I can give you their name as well, maybe there´re people who wonder. I find it very sad that people applaud what you said.

And I also condemn people who have applauded this atrocity. I believe that applauding the ones who have killed children is not humanitarian. There have been many people killed."

Turkish PM given hero´s welcome

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/davos/7859815.stm

WE PROUD OF HIM! HE IS GRAN CHILD OF OTTOMAN! TURKEY WILL BE MORE POWERFUL BY FORCE OF HIM! YEAH!

what a wise move for the upcoming elections!

some morons forget some basic facts such as that the collaboration between Turkey and Israel has hightened during the time of AKP.

I`m sure tayyip called Peres and apologized after his show.

All in Turkish, BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/turkish/news/story/2009/01/090130_levy.shtml

 israil controlled his human emotions when bombing children with phosphorus bomb

Men exist with his own emotions

I am still not sure entirely it was the right thing to do from the foreign policies of Turkey..

Because Turkey was trying to play the role of mediator in the middle east as a country that is able to speak hamas, Israel, Iran, Syria..

The latest incident might be a bit harmful for this..

i dont think it will not be harmful. this will make islam word respect Turkey even more and i think it is a good thing. Tayyip just spoke out what his people ( 90 %)  think about this war. please lets not care about diplomacy for once and enjoy this Diplomacy did nothing when millions of people  in Bosna, Gaza,Sudan, Somali were killed. 

hakkaten oha abicim

 Do you care more about being respected by the Islam world rather than what is right? Don´t you think the PM was definitely going to side with Palestine simply because he is Muslim anyway? I do think that Israel is extreme with it´s actions but do you honestly think Turkey would not retaliate if your country was having rockets fired at it? I think it would, or I think it would want to, if it was as brave as Israel. It takes a lot of guts to stand up and say, I will not back down and allow my country to be attacked!

Also what do you all think to the Armenian genocide?

 Yeah, this could be damaged some kind .... unfortunatelly.

But it was great show, he dared to say it.

Unexpected, but in a right place and right time.

"Turkey has had strong ties with Israel for many years, including a military partnership since 1996, while also being close to the Palestinians. In 2006, Turkey became the first Nato country to host a Hamas delegation for official talks in Ankara. In an effort to play a more active role in the Middle East in recent years, Turkey sent soldiers to Lebanon as part of an international peace force there and brought Israel and Syria together for indirect peace talks. " /The National/

I hope it all goes on...

Quoting Roswitha

Would somebody kindly translate these Turkish words for me into English? Sitemize ve sponsorlarýmýza destek olmak için reklam hizmetlerimize týklamayý unutmayýnýz... Sizde bu alana reklam vermek istiyorsanýz E-Posta gönderiniz...

 I think it says something like "Our sight depends on using this area for advertising don´t forget, if you want send it on"

Quoting Roswitha

Would somebody kindly translate these Turkish words for me into English? Sitemize ve sponsorlarýmýza destek olmak için týklamayý unutmayýnýz... Sizde bu alana reklam vermek istiyorsanýz E-Posta gönderiniz...

In order to support our site and our sponsors don´t forget to click on our advertising services ... If you want you can place an ad in this area.

The flashing signs say that we´re behing the Palestinian people, not to eat or feed McDonalds food, not to drink or make anybody drink Coke products, by eating McDonald´s food you´re shooting a bullet at yayrularla (no idea what that means), and it says about blood-red death advertisement of Coke.

Sorry, small correction (can we have the modify function back? lol) - the last sentence on the part on the left side actually says "If you want to place an ad in this area, send an email"

 My sentiments exactly!!!  Look behind these conglomerates and I very much doubt they support Palestinians.

 Do you think this was really defending his people? By killing civils? Were those whoo fired rockets were children, babies that were killed? How many Israelians got killed by the rockets?

Israel has all the power, super technological guns, defending systems and all. When they get an alarm of a rocket coming, they can immediately hide in the shelters. Israel knew that their bombs would kill innocent people. On the TV during the Israel attacks, they showed an Israelian woman saying "I hope all arabs get killed".

We are not talking about the past, you are bringing something that happened during world war 1. It´s not a comparable thing.

I googled "Attacks in Turkey 2008".   THere is no need to speculate because you read in news what Turkey does.  (I don´t know if the stories are accurate, but it is all out there.  The story is called "TIMELINE: Recent attacks in Turkey" see link below.

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL0926712620080727

after that he became the president of hearts..

 So true !

Even Amr Moussa The Arab League´s secretary-general  despite of all the diplomatic rules, relations and what ever, he couldnt hide how proud he is of him !

Ý forgot to add it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrbQsHkVQ_4&feature=related

http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/473946.asp

This is the Erdoðan/Peres  telephone call in Turkish.   I hope the other students have fun reading it too.

What do you know about Armenians? Armenians were full fledged citizens of Ottoman Empire and were just as responsible for welfare, safety and actions of the Empire, as the next citizen.

Some Armenians were killed, most died in French or Russian uniforms fighting against their own country, not because they were Armeninans; but because they were bloody traitors. 

Compare that to bombing a long sieged city full of totally innocent civilians,without discrimination using  uncomperably unbalanced force and inhuman weapons,

 i feel sorry for your hearts.

When I first read the newspaper.

I said he did something good.

for internal politics or whatever, he did something that nobody could like rich arabic states.

I know that all turkish nation thinks same like our prime minister.

We are inheritor of ottoman, they have to respect turkey´s ideas.

 Have to? As in ´must obey´? I thought everyone is entitled of their own ideas and thoughts...!

yes baby, they have to

coz these lands were ottoman.

and we have more rights to talk than USA, UK.... about israel-palestine issue.

 So someone living in former Ottoman lands - which is more than just Turkey itself - HAVE TO obey these thoughts? Sounds very dictatorial to me.

u miss the point here baby.

I wont explain to you.

maybe u will understand when u plan ur next trip to palestine

you and diplomatic manners are two different things. nobody can establish diplomatic relationships with you. because you dont understand and never experienced what peace. you were brought up on the color of blood and there are no other colors in your limitted mind.

Well ! Nobody touches or nudges a Turkish Priminister, while the PM is formally speaking.

That was exactly what that clown of a moderator did; Stuff it, if you think that was Western diplomacy.

In one of the seminars in 2005 Johhan Kosner said"If till 2010 the war in Middle East didn´t break out the whole world would breathe with relief´

The Isreali-Palestinian conflict has been lasting for many years,it is complex and neither ONZ nor the USA nor other political tycoons do not have slightest idea to solve it.And probably they will not find it as nobody cares.Middle East seems to be working bomb that can be used at any moment for doing´politics´

Somewhow none of the Arabic countries does not demand any rights to Gaza strip.378 square kilometers,inhabited by 1,5 million of people among whom 75% refugees,50% of whom lives in provisional camps.The borders are closed.Palestinians live undear fear with lack of medicine,food,etc totally cut off from the world.

No matter what is said but in this conflict it is Israel that is occupier.But when Israeli attack palestine it is said they defend their country.When Palestinians attack Israelis they commit the act of terror.Is that a right thing?

In West partizans are called heroes,in the Middle East-terrorist

Why one nation whose ppl suffered a lot during 2nd war is at liberty to do the same for the other nation and does not let Palestinians leave in peace.

Every nation has the right to peaceful coexistence,and every  ordinary,single person no matter Israeli,Palestinian,Pole,Turk,etc dreams about peaceful life and does not want war.War is desired by incumbents and politics makers.

The biggest paradox is that West which cares ´so much ´about peace in the world is afraid of Jewish lobby and Israel´s anger.And there is nothing about anti semitism here just stating the fact.

Israel will probably and eventually finish off all Palestine and Palestinians, Hamas and all.

You must be fools however, if you believe that will bring peace to Middle East, making a satisfied and friendly nation out of these Sionists. The decent Jews themselves are weary but seem unable to control this vile streak amongst their brethen.

Sionists will still have to deal with Syria, Turkey, and Iraq to secure all the land they believe god has "promised" them. I doubt if even that will stop them: Their holy book also tells them they are god´s chosen "shepherd",  divinely meant to rule the rest of the world, the "flock".

Long time to peace yet, unless these nuts are stopped immediately.

i think you are all blind and deaf. thats all i can say about it.

i suppose most of you even didnt bother yourselves to listen to the whole debate. you all are ignorants.

can anyone explain me a thing?

how come arabs in israel live a peaceful life untouched and they even can participate in government?

and any single jew that wonders into gaza or west bank must be killed and dismembered?

but you all hear and see what you want to see and hear. thats all.

 yes a typical turkish and muslim post.

"israel, listen, you will never see peace, we will destroy you. if not palestianians, we turks will kill you off and then iranians and even rusians!" congratulations on your superb peaceful mentality.

go, and make peace the way you always did.

i mean, israel is not so bad when israel gives tanks and other wepons for free and train your army. then israel is not bad.

typical dudus.

Jews have been saved and given refuge more than once in history by Moslem Turks, mainly from Catholic Spanish Inquisition and Nazi Germany.

I do not konw what your perverted mind means by a "typical turkish and moslem post". You obviously dont know much history, but should at least know enough geography to grasp that both Spain and Germany are parts of the glorious West.

Femmeous, i have no problem with whatever opinions you may/have, logical, non logical, good, bad, healthy, sick..what so ever...i dont care really

 Opinions represent the person who concede them not others.

So actually its not my problem as much as its yours.

But my problem here is how you present, introduce your opinions.

We have rules here for that, and i believe they are way too clear, and need no more further explanations !

So taking those rules into consideration, will not lead in deleting any kind of post no matter how we agree, or disagree with.

Ý dont understand why are you so angry about ?

Because Perese didnt has the last word as he wanted and as was planed for ?!

To answer your questions.

No, actually i have listened to the whole debate, searched till i found what Perese said.

He was way very impressive in describing how the children cant sleep the night, and make it a good excuse in the killing of the 400 Palestinian kids !

Ý heard it alright, but it contains many claims that not even worth talking about!

People can try to change history, make other people forget, but how on earth can they expect others to forget things, events that we already witnessed ?!

And about the arab living in israel thing.

Ý dont think you forgot Baruch Kappel Goldstein in 1994

And what israel done in response, or do you need a reminder ?!

So please save me the good heart thing here !  

 Ã dont think you get it, do you ?

Do you expect us to offer our lands to israel as a gift or present or something ?!

AlphaF was talking about erezet ýsrael

So you mean we should be good  and offer our lands in exchange of peace ?!

Do you hear yourself ?!!

Who is having a superb peaceful mentality then ?!

You call that peace ?!

 Yeah, and it is not surprising that clown is an Armenian lobbyist

Want to know what CBS thiks?

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4752349n

Want to know what Mary Callaghan thinks?

http://www.blockbuster.com/catalog/movieDetails/310556

Canli,

What your map clearly proves is that old Moses was a farmer and had no idea of jeology.

His map definitely misses all Iraqi and Kuwaiti oil fields, by a wide margin.

 where did you find this post of alpha?

israel is one of the nations trying to survive. i would love to see what you would say if russians, czechs, germans, swedish would constantly attack poland. would you be speaking the same thing?

you better dont speak of artificial nations, because we can throw your country into the same bag. for how long poland was errased from the map?

when russian politicians were speaking this crap about poland i felt shame for them.

but i think i feel shame for you today.

.......Their holy book also tells them they are god´s chosen "shepherd",  divinely meant to rule the rest of the world, the "flock".THERE aren´t chosen nations(well,not according to Jews)but Jewish nation is subordinate to the same universal rules no matter if God´s or human.It shouldn´t be glorified but treated as the rest of nations

Long time to peace yet, unless these nuts are stopped immediately.

Agree.no matters what measures are taken,the peace is something unobtainable now..

just a result of creating artificial country,politics..

 And what a great spitful mind we have here with capacity to spit at everyone who dares to be of a different opinion)well,well,well

I hope that in real life you are not  as sharp as your sophisticated highbrow words here

BTW

did you get up on the left side of a bed today?

 ah come on, is that all you can reply me? gosh! i counted on more sophisticated answer from you since you are so called expert proud of yourself.

me spit? dont you exaggerate? i think so far its me who is spat on from all of you.

as for other having their opinions, they are more than welcome, i dont moan and i dont report and i dont ask to delete. because i can cope with whatever rubbish you try to fed yourselves.

i mean do you all enjoy and get orgasm when spitting on jews? when watching bloody pics of pallywood? do you love watching those palestian young men who run back and forth in front of a camera while six of them carrying one litle baby? i mean how many men do you need to carry a little child? or do you need to be on tv? to show the whole world how you are excited about the situtaion?

 i watch it everyday, those palestinians, look at them, look into their eyes, theres no sadness, no sorrow, even no anger, but only and only excitement.

 someone at home laughed at your answer re: poland´s disappearence from the world map. maybe you should revisit your history books?

thank you.

 Look femmeous, there is actually nothing to discuss or to talk about here

The country age is 60 yrs old and thats says everything actually!

So you have no ground here, everyone ´of course so who no benefit from the situation´ can see it and know it, but you just like to argue .

Fine...argue.

Now, the problem here is different...

Calling someone a joker...isnt nice...its an insult

What would harm you if you say same sentence that you said without including that word ?!!!

You have been warned about that many times femmeous, and you fail to understand that you can freely state what ever opinion that you may have and wish to share as long as you FOLLOW the forum rules !

Israel is on its way to become NAZISRAEL by its action in Gaza. There is no excuse.

What took place in Davos was essentially a cockfight between two parties contending to become the leaders in the Middle East. One contender is Turkey, who carries the legacy of the Ottomans under whom the Middle East was in peace for a good couple of centuries, and the other contender is Israel, who is trying to dominate the region through suppression.

One has to keep in mind that the biggest part os Israel´s economy relies on warfare in the sense that Israel is the biggest provider of anti-terrorism technology in the world. The public surveilance camera system in Britain, which was the first in the so-called civilized world, was developed and provided by Israel. Today, the Israeli economy thrives on selling know-how about anti-terrorism and surveillance technology. Data-mining is also an Israeli specialty. Hence, it is not surprising that Israel is opting for war than peace.

 i hardly think it was a cockfight although it looked so when erdogan spoke. i think it was a show off to a wider mass.

the last sentence wasnt very successful - if i produce jelly beans it doesnt mean im gonna turn the world into jellies.

it has developed its technology, not only its agriculture, furtilizers..

they have that gift, they are smart.

with nazi israel thing, you just exaggerate, they didnt organize a death march and didnt wipe out hundreds of thousands of arabs (like some nation 100 years ago) or they didnt eliminate hundreds of thousands of poor blacks in darfur. or they didnt gazzed down hundreds of thousands of kurds. and you guys hardly noticed that. and there were no trials for those who did that.

whats your thought on that? there are terror attacks everyday and the number of their victims are countless. but somehow no one of you notice it. no one of you show your big hearts as you show to the pallywood cartoons.

 Thank you for your logical comments

 thank Poland-the land that is feeding you,gives you a shelter and the feeling of importance-not me))))

 i ignore this.

 ah come on, is that all you can reply me? gosh! i counted on more sophisticated answer from you since you are so called expert proud of yourself.BLAH ,BLAH ,BLAH

me spit? dont you exaggerate? i think so far its me who is spat on from all of you.

THANK U,so nice of u

as for other having their opinions, they are more than welcome, i dont moan and i dont report and i dont ask to delete. because i can cope with whatever rubbish you try to fed yourselves.ARE U SURE?

i mean do you all enjoy and get orgasm HMMMM WOW what an exhibitionism when spitting on jews? when watching bloody pics of pallywood? do you love watching those palestian young men who run back and forth in front of a camera while six of them carrying one litle baby? i mean how many men do you need to carry a little child? or do you need to be on tv? I DO NOT WATCH TV-too stupyfing-I waste my free time at TCL show the whole world how you are excited about the situtaion?AM I ???

 i watch it everyday, those palestinians, look at them, look into their eyes, theres no sadness, no sorrow, even no anger, but only and only excitement.

Ahh bcs they are Muslims?if they were Christians u would pity them????you contradict yourself..in  one of the posts u said  everybody sees what he/she wants to see...ehh femme..God bless u!

Initially, I was not going to reply to your post, but I couldn´t help it. Combined with your ignorance, arrogance & your inability to write coherently in English, half the things you have posted on this thread have been beside the point, and aimed at annoying other posters.

Let me go sentence by sentence in your post, and reply to each.

1. "i hardly think it was a cockfight although it looked so when erdogan spoke. i think it was a show off to a wider mass." I am assuming you have never seen two cocks (roosters), and hence cannot tell when a cockfight is taking place even if you were sitting in the middle of a hen. Davos has always and will always be a "show off" to a wider mass. That is the very nature of the summit. 

2. "the last sentence wasnt very successful - if i produce jelly beans it doesnt mean im gonna turn the world into jellies." And your English isn´t very successful either. Neither is your sense of humour. Israel has built an economy that directly benefits from and expands on escalating violence. Years before the US & European companies figured out the coming boom and the huge potential of the so-called global security boom, the Israeli security firms were already developing the models for today´s "homeland security industry".There are over 400 corporations in Israel that are dedicated to selling "homeland security products" to clients ranging from "civilized countries" to outright dictatorships that use such products to oppress their people. Turkey is also one of the clients by the way. The last time there was a credible prospect of peace in the Mid East was in the early 90s. Communism had collapsed, the information technology boom was beginning, and among the Isreali businessmen, there was a widespread conviction that Israel´s bloody occupation of Gaza was putting Israel´s economic future in jeopardy by antagonizing the Arab States to boycott. In 1993, Dan Gillerman, who was then the president of the Israeli Chamber of Commerce, supported this view by stating that Israel could become the logistic, strategic and marketing center of the whole region like a Middle Eastern version of Hong Kong or Singapore. Despite all the handshakes and the intentions for peace, Israel retreated into unilateralism. One factor was the influx of Soviet Jews, and the other was the conversion of Israel´s export economy from one based on traditional manudfactured goods and high-technology to another that depended exclusively on selling intangible expertise and technologies designed for counter-terrorism. As a result of the Russian influx, the Israel no longer had to rely on cheap Palestinian labor, and the process of cordoning and walling the Palestinians increased. The Israeli businessmen, on the other hand, smelled the stench of the money that could be made through a rapid expansion of the high-tech "security" industry, and realized that a continual "War on Terror" would make a lot more dollars than peace. On March 30, 1993, Israel implemented its ´closure policy´ by sealing off the border between Israel and the occupied territories so that the Palestinians couldn´t get to their jobs or sell their products like they could before. Between 1993 & 2000, the number of Israelis living in the occupied territories tripled in numbers. When it turned out that Israel´s key to success in the global economy would be through the niche markets of selling information technologies, it became clear that wiring software or computer chips would be more viable than shipping tangible cargoes to Beirut or Damascus. Additionally, this situation also meant that Israel did not really have to have friendly or peaceful relations with its Arab neighbours, or end its occupation of their territories. At that time, Israel was actually the most high-tech dependent economy in the world and was hit the hardest by the dot-com crash. As a result, the Israeli government increased military spending by 15 percent and cut back on social services. The tech industry, on the other hand, switched from information & communication technologies to "security & surveillance". Israel´s defense exports reached $3.4 billion in 2006 making Israel the fourth largest "arms-dealer" in the world.Israel has the largest number of security related technology stocks listed on Nasdaq than any other country, and its patents registered in the US outnumber those registered by India & China combined. Just to make you eat your words - its security based tech sector constitute over 60 percent of Israel´s exports. Len Rosen, an investment banker from Israel, told the Fortune magazine that it is security that matters, more than peace. The War on Terror actually saved Israel´s troubled economy. So, I guess, my last sentence was not that "unsuccessful´.

Just to rub your face a bit further into the ground, here is a brief list of how deep Israel´s security sector goes:

- When you dial 911 for the New York Police Department, your call is recorded & analyzed by Nice Systems - an Israeli firm.

- Images recorded in the London underground are captured by verint video surveillance cameras, which are owned by the Israeli technology giant Comverse. The same systems are also used at the US Dept of Defense, Dulles Int Airport, the Capitol Hill and the subway in Montreal.

- Supercom, an Israeli company that pioneered the idea of "biometric passports and ID cards" provides the "smartcard IDs"carried by the employees of the cities of Los Anegeles and Columbus, Ohio.

- Check Point, another Israeli firm, is the provider of the firewalls in the networks of some of the largest corporations in the world. 90 percent of Fortune 500 companies use Check Point security systems.

- Buckhingham Palace chose Magal, a company that has been highly involved in rather dirty business practices, to design its new security system.

Let me repeat my statement - Israel has an economic interest in escalating violence and perpetuating a continual War on Terror, not only within its region but in other parts of the world as well. That is the reason why the Tel Aviv Stock Market went up in August 2006, which was the month of a devastating war with Lebanon.

As I feel that I have pretty much shoved your ignorant reply down your throat by these rather well-documented examples, I won´t bother with the last paragraph of your post, where you make half-assed remarks with bougs numbers and statistics without clarifying what you are referring to. I have no doubt that you will grant us the privilage of writing another gibberish reply to my post, and if I have the time, I will certainly knock more sense into that thick head of yours. Go learn your facts & history now... instead of barking at anyone who criticizes Israel.

someone has deleted my previous post to you.

i ignore your cheap counter argument to my post and suggest you revisit you history books.

its not 300 years but 123.

Iranian cleric: Turkish Erdogan should be awarded Nobel Peace Prize

A senior Iranian cleric called on Sunday for Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to be awarded a cfor his courageous act at the World Economic Forum, the Iranian state radio IRNA reported.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=35936

How sweet

No...

Clearly, you could not even reply with a worhty-of-reading post.

Well, cynicmystic, I have found your posts informative. However,  it does get confusing when the posts are very long, and with no paragraphs. As for Femm´s posts, it´s even harder to read just what point is being made, as it´s hard to know just who is saying what.

 My point is very simple. War, terror and continual violence serves the Israeli economy, whose exports are predominantly counter-terrorism devices & know-how.  The reason why my post is long is because I actually took the time to provide evidence for what I was stating. Not many people on this board are capable of that. You can check every refrence in my post and see how it supports the point I was making. War, whether it is the War on Terror, or the War with Hizbollah is a much better economic stimulus than peace due to the way the Israeli economy was restructured following the collpase of the Mid East peace talks in Osla back in the early 90s. Hence, Israel escalates violence for economic reasons as well.

 Aren´t we blessed to have you come and enlighten us idiots

I think your previous post is rather simplistic to be honest..

"Isreal does not want peace because they are selling counter-terrorism devices & know-how" is the WRONG (OR A PARTIAL) answer to the question ´why Isreal does not want peace´..

If you remove ´counter-terrorism devices & know-how part´ from israel´s economy, do you think Isreal will collapse and they will want peace?

I dont think so..

They dont want peace because as long as there is a war, they will keep grabbing more arab lands.

As long as there is war, they dont need to go back to 1967 borders and they dont need to accept UN resolutions.

As long as there is a terrorism threat for them, they can delay leaving any part of land

they are occupying.

They can not sit for peace negatiations while occupying most of  west bank, south labenon etc.

And as long as they are occupying the land they think, they are having more legitimacy there..(Note the last 8 years during Bush administration, USA  spokesmen started to refer ´disputed territories´ as opposed to ´occupied territories´

They are the reasons why they are doing anything to preserve the current statusquo..

I do not know if you are blessed or not, and do not really care. I did not call you an idiot either. However, you did take the liberty of clarifying that for us.

What is the problem? Too many facts down where the sun doesn´t shine. What is wrong with the length of my post? Is it the content? If you read what many people post in the politics forum, it is mainly personal insults, half-assed statistics and bogus claims without any supporting evidence other than "I don´t think etc." Taking into consideration that a post half the size of mine usually contains nothing other than accusations, personal vendetta and name-calling on this board, I am actually quite proud of my posts. I do take the time to research the facts to support my arguments, and many people here do not. If waht you were looking for was a post in which someone talks straight out of his ass, then I am afraid you should have by-passed mine.

By the way, be honest, did you know about half the shit I wrote in my post about Israeli firms and its economy? Is it that bad for a post to have some substance to its content?

Actually handsom, I hate to disappoint you but it is your view that is simplistic. I have to admit that what I posted is NOT my view at all, but the view of well-recognized, established and published scholars. I wish that I could take credit and say that I came up with these ideas, but I have not. Like many others, I learned them through reading books for which knowledge and insight, I am certainly grateful and in debt to the original authors.

Every single point in my post regarding Israel was taken directly from two books written by Noam Chomsky and Naomi Klein. I just passed on the wisdom. The views that you consider "simplistic" are directly from the book SHOCK DOCTRINE, which has been a New York Times Bestseller, and the FINALIST for the National Business Book Award. The other book is the American Hegemony by Chomsky. I guess those that awarded Naomi Klein were not as deep thinkers as you are, and failed to see how simplistic her views were.

Had you have the habit of reading books rather than newspaper articles from ZAMAN that you love to post here to antagonize people, you would perhaps save yourself the shame of shooting yourself in the foot.

However, you could always write to those scholars and present your deep thoughts about these siiues and how "simplistic" their views are. I am sure they would be delighted.

The problem is not the content of your post, actually I did find it informative and enjoyed reading it. The problem is your incredible arrogance and thinking that you´re smarter than everybody on this forum. You accuse people of being arrogant, ignorant, not capable of making long posts full of trivia info that they copied from other books, you criticize other people´s ability to express themselves in English even though it´s not that person´s first language, and don´t think that you comment about me clarifying that I was an idiot escaped me.

That´s the problem! 

And no, I didn´t know half the shit that you wrote and like I said I did find it interesting. [1 sentence removed by admin]

Trivia info copied from other books? Are you confusing this with the TV show jeopardy? You are the one who posted an arrogant one-sentence reply to my post with a dumbo smiley face presenting flowers. Additionally, you took the liberty of referring to everyone else as "idiots to be enlightened", supposedly by me. I am not here to enlighten people, but to contribute posts of substance rather than venom. If I do strike you as arrogant, it is simply because I am a bit tired of the name-calling forum-board superstars shooting bogus facts out of their asses without ever bothering to offer any sort of evidence. Regarding your wisdom about English not being the first language of the posters, keep in mind that it is not my first language either. It is actually my fifth one. (Here is more arrogance for you, eh!) Speaking English as second language should not mean that people will have the freedom to post garbage. Eveyone can take the little bit of time to give their posts some sort of coherency, a body stating their main points and the evidences supporting those points. Otherwise, we might as well text-message calling each other names rather than waste our times posting on message boards. [1 sentence removed by admin] Post something that I will find reading interesting for a change.

"The problem is not the content of your post, actually I did find it informative and enjoyed reading it. The problem is your incredible arrogance and thinking that you´re smarter than everybody on this forum. You accuse people of being arrogant, ignorant, not capable of making long posts full of trivia info that they copied from other books, you criticize other people´s ability to express themselves in English even though it´s not that person´s first language, and don´t think that you comment about me clarifying that I was an idiot escaped me.

That´s the problem! 

And no, I didn´t know half the shit that you wrote and like I said I did find it interesting. 

Israel has a diversified, technologically advanced economy with substantial but decreasing government ownership and a strong high-tech sector. The major industrial sectors include high-technology electronic and biomedical equipment, metal products, processed foods, chemicals, and transport equipment. Israel possesses a substantial service sector and is one of the world´s centers for diamond cutting and polishing. It also is a world leader in software development and, prior to the violence that began in September 2000, was a major tourist destination.

Israel´s strong commitment to economic development and its talented work force led to economic growth rates during the nation´s first two decades that frequently exceeded 10% annually. The years after the 1973 Yom Kippur War were a lost decade economically, as growth stalled and inflation reached triple-digit levels. The successful economic stabilization plan implemented in 1985 and the subsequent introduction of market-oriented structural reforms reinvigorated the economy and paved the way for rapid growth in the 1990s.

A wave of Jewish immigration beginning in 1989, predominantly from the countries of the former U.S.S.R., brought nearly a million new citizens to Israel. These new immigrants, many of them highly educated, now constitute some 13% of Israel´s 6.7 million inhabitants. Their successful absorption into Israeli society and its labor force forms a remarkable chapter in Israeli history. The skills brought by the new immigrants and their added demand as consumers gave the Israeli economy a strong upward push and in the 1990’s, they played a key role in the ongoing development of Israel´s high-tech sector.

During the 1990s, progress in the Middle East peace process, beginning with the Madrid Conference of 1991, helped to reduce Israel´s economic isolation from its neighbors and opened up new markets to Israeli exporters farther afield. The peace process stimulated an unprecedented inflow of foreign investment in Israel, and provided a substantial boost to economic growth in the region over the last decade. The onset of the intifada beginning at the end of September of 2000, the downturn in the high-tech sector and Nasdaq crisis, and the slowdown of the global economy have all significantly affected the Israeli economy. However, despite the recent conflicts in Gaza and Lebanon, the Israeli economy grew during 2006.

Israeli companies, particularly in the high-tech area, have in the past enjoyed considerable success raising money on Wall Street and other world financial markets; Israel ranks second to Canada among foreign countries in the number of its companies listed on U.S. stock exchanges. Israel’s tech market is very developed, and in spite of the pause in the industry’s growth, the high-tech sector is likely to be the major driver of the Israeli economy. Almost half of Israel’s exports are high tech. Most leading players, including Intel, IBM, and Cisco have a presence in Israel.

Growth was an exceptional 6.2% in 2000, due in part to a number of one-time high tech acquisitions and investments. This exceptional year was followed by two years of negative growth of -0.9% and -1%, respectively, in 2001 and 2002. As a result of the security situation and the associated downturn in the economy, there was a significant rise in unemployment and wage erosion. This led to a decline in private consumption in 2002, the first time that there had been negative private consumption since the early 1980s. However, following growth rates of 1.7% in 2003 and 4.4% in 2004, the Israeli economy entered into a period of stabilization and recovery after the deep recession of 2001 and 2002. Since then, the Israeli economy seems to have returned to a trend of consistent growth. The Israeli economy grew by 5.2% in 2005 and GDP per capita (U.S. $17,80 increased by 3.3%. The Israeli economy grew by an estimated 4.8% in 2006.

Exports of goods and services in Israel grew by 7% in 2005. Service and agricultural exports each increased by more than 10% in 2005, whereas exports increased by 5.6% and imports rose to 4.4%. Tourism revenues increased by 22.7% as a result of the dramatic increase following the intifada’s subsidence.

Israel’s private consumption increased by 4% in 2005. The largest growth in private consumption was in the purchase of clothing, footwear, and personal effects, which increased by 10.2%, following an increase of 5.4% in 2004. Consumption of consumer durables grew much more slowly than in 2004, with an increase of only 3.4%, compared with 14.3% the previous year.

In the Israeli business sector, business GDP grew by 6.6% in 2005. According to CBS statistics, the transportation, storage, and communications industries grew by 9.2%, following growth of 6.6% in 2004. The GDP of the wholesale, retail, restaurant, and hotel sector increased by 8.1%, up from 6.1% in 2004. The GDP of the finance and business services sector in 2005 increased by 6.4%, up from the previous year’s 6.1% growth rate.

The general consensus among economists is that Israel’s economy is very strong and that its growth potential is in the 4% to 5% range.

The United States is Israel´s largest trading partner. In 2005, two-way trade totaled some $26.6 billion, up 12% from 2004. The U.S. trade deficit with Israel was $7.1 billion in 2005, up 33% from 2004, due largely to rising Israeli exports to the U.S. U.S. exports to Israel rose 6.1% in 2005 to $9.7 billion, making Israel our 19^th largest export market for goods. The principal goods exported from the U.S. include civilian aircraft parts, telecommunications equipment, semiconductors, civilian aircraft, electrical apparatus, and computer accessories. Israel´s chief exports to the U.S. include diamonds, pharmaceutical preparations, telecommunications equipment, medicinal equipment, electrical apparatus, and cotton apparel. The two countries signed a free trade agreement (FTA) in 1985 that progressively eliminated tariffs on most goods traded between the two countries over the following 10 years. An agricultural trade accord signed in November 1996 addressed the remaining goods not covered in the FTA but has not entirely erased barriers to trade in the agricultural sector. Israel also has trade and cooperation agreements in place with the European Union, Canada, Mexico, and other countries.

Best prospect industry sectors in Israel for U.S. exporters are electricity and gas equipment, defense equipment, medical instruments and disposable products, industrial chemicals, telecommunication equipment, electronic components, building materials/construction industries (DIY and infrastructure), safety and security equipment and services, non-prescription drugs, travel and tourism services, and computer software.

GDP (2006 est.): $170.3 billion.
Annual growth rate (2006): 4.8%.
Per capita GDP (2006): $26,800.
Currency: Shekel (4.13 shekels = 1 U.S. dollar; 2007 est.).
Natural resources: Copper, phosphate, bromide, potash, clay, sand, sulfur, bitumen, manganese.
Agriculture: Products--citrus and other fruits, vegetables, beef, dairy, and poultry products.
Industry: Types--high-technology projects (including aviation, communications, computer-aided design and manufactures, medical electronics, fiber optics), wood and paper products, potash and phosphates, food, beverages, tobacco, caustic soda, cement, construction, plastics, chemical products, diamond cutting and polishing, metal products, textiles, and footwear.
Trade: Exports (2006 est.)--$42.86 billion. Exports include polished diamonds, electronic communication, medical and scientific equipment, chemicals and chemical products, electronic components and computers, machinery and equipment, transport equipment, rubber, plastics, and textiles. Imports (excluding defense imports, 2006 est.)--$47.8 billion: raw materials, diamonds, energy ships and airplanes, machinery, equipment, land transportation equipment for investment, and consumer goods. Major partners--U.S., U.K., Germany; exports--U.S., Belgium, Hong Kong; imports--U.S., Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, U.K.

Ok boys and gals, please modify your posts so it wont contain any swearing words, insults or any like

We all well aware of the rules of the site.

And femmeous will you add link to the post, and if you can, repost it with a another font size ´you can use Word´, its too tiny to read.

You´re more than welcome to delete mine. I´ve said what I had to say and it was read by whom it was meant to be read. 

 Things dont work like that Melek and cynicmystic and you know it too!

Ýf you ´generally´ have a problem with anyone at the forum take it via pm´s and not at the forum.

We here to exchange opinions thoughts, not to fight and insult each other then welcome the post to be deleted !

So,Please keep it away from the forum!

What are you talking about? How else can I present my opinions other than I already have. I wrote a fine post and people responded. Whether positively or negatively is a different matter. What is this ? Instant messenger? I didn´t ask anything to be deleted either. If someone replies to your post you can reply back. plus, should not the same principles apply to you? You have been having quite a back-n-forth argument with femmeous yourself.

 Things dont work like that Melek and cynicmystic and you know it too!

Ýf you ´generally´ have a problem with anyone at the forum take it via pm´s and not at the forum.

We here to exchange opinions thoughts, not to fight and insult each other then welcome the post to be deleted !

So,Please keep it away from the forum!

See you have learnt some new word...congrats

Ý fed up also femmeous, but i wont delete your posts...they speak on their own better than any reply i can offer to you !

We ask same from everyone and if i remember well, LÝR always asked this from you too as you always state!

So its not something new to you or something to do with my approach to you, its something to do with the rules of the site and net.

 Ãm not talking abour presenting your opinion

Of course you can do it as much as you like and its appreciated too

Ým talking about the exchange between you and melek and using some words shouldnt be included in the posts.

And that i asked to take it via pm´s

Ps: i will pm you

 Ãnsulting Türkiye and Turks is not allowed cynicmystic, but people can have their own opinions regardless if we like it or not.

And as you/we did...or do...if there is an opinion you dont find it right, you can post your point of view and debating about it.

With respect to both Türkiye and Turks too

And no, i wont be saying anything like that actually

Ýf you dont like anything, we can talk about it...we always do/did that too in here.

This thread is titled ´Turkish PM storms off in Gaza Row´ - is there any chance of getting back to the topic? 

Alternatively we could retitle it ´Melek/Cynicmystic/Canli/femmeous storm off in TC Row´ or we could accept the topic has run its course and lock the thread.

Cool then.

Peace.

 i havent seen any insult towards turkey, turks or turkishness so far.

but insulting everything except turkey, turks, muslims and islam is OK.

an excellent idea!!! bravo!

How about an alternative of a special thread where debates like this can be moved to?

You mean a thread to which arguments debates that get ´out of hand´ can be moved?  Wouldn´t we just end up with one great long ´argument thread´ and nothing else? 

 Thank you

I locked this thread because of personal attacks.