I am really angry about this..

Very recently the vice president of Sudan visited Turkey. 

The regime of Sudan is being accused of committing genocide in Darfur..And our Hero of Davos  said that there was no genocide taken place in Darfur in 2006 when visiting Sudan..And happily accepted this visit..

In Darfur, there have been at least 300.000 death in recent years and many many childeren among them (and many of them were raped before killing).

The stories of how these muslim soldiers would rape the childeren can be read anywhere..

I think my muslim brothers and sisters, you have to accept the fact that ´who does the killing´ was always very important for you..

In Gazza incident, you objected and also in Erdogan´s Davos incidents you  apploaded him, ´rightly´..

There were all anti semitic protests (even childeren were used in those protests) against Israel and  for Gazza people..

Most of you were just protesting becasue the killing was done by the jews.

While condemning the jews killers because they were killing the muslims, our prime minister is praising the muslims who kills muslims.. Even the head of Parliment said that ´but they are elected in Sudan´ ..Phew..

I am begining to think that most of the people who protested were never really sorry for those childeren killed in Gazza.

They were just showing us one of the faces they have...

I can´t stay I don´t feel certain gratification (I don´t want to say I told you so). Maybe it will be a good lesson for those who want to trust politicians.

 thats what i´ve been shouting about for years. but poor blacks are not that important than gazzans. they are not aloud. they dont have a pallywood production studio supported by UN and EU. they are killed in silence far away from the world cameras. they are just blacks.

I remember you cautious and balanced angle from Erdogan-Davos threads..So you can clearly say ´I told you so´

But my angle of accusation is a bit wider than ´politicians only´ to be honest.. 

Of course it is a wider issue. I don´t know if I would agree that it is limited to Muslims only though. I´m sure you´d find a similar attitude among many so-called Christians as well. I think it has to do with group think and us vs. them attitude.

 Ã fail to see why are you making it a religious issue, or what are you comparing exactly.

People in Darfur are muslims, majority, and i dont agree that the issue in Palestine is jew to Muslim thing, its rather Ýsraeli to Palestinian thing

Darfur is a Sudanese land, where Palestine isnt Ýsraeli´s land.

The conflict in Darfur goes back long time ago and it was between the tripes there till oil and uranium been discovered.

Suddenly people got armed and demand authority !

Ýmagine that Kurds in Türkiye demand the land they are living on to be ruled by them and not Turkish government, and used weapones to make it real

Will the Turkish army sit and watch them ?

Will YOU accept it ?!

Why anyone expect Sudan not doing same ?!

And fight for their own land against the  dividing ?

People in Palestine been murdered, taken prisoners, been used as animals´ labs there, women got raped, and so on, but we havent seen any trail for the Ýsraeli PM or president or anyone for that matter !

Of course they are war crimes in Darfur, when innocent people got killed and  they werent part of any fight, when they forced to leave their homes and lands, when they are killed or tortured, all of that are war crimes.

And its a shame too.

But who´s to blame ?!

El Bashir, Sudan , Sudanese army, powers who gave weapons to Darfur rebellious to fight their government and cant keep their hands off other people´s lands specially when loaded with oil, and even more Uranium ?!

El Bashir  defending his country and nothing to be blamed about that, unless you are in favore of dividing your own country to everyone who want piece of the land and make himself governor!

To me, all are equal, Muslims or non Muslims, if they want part of my land, if anyone want to divide my land they should think again !

And i guess im not the only one thinking like that , am i ?!

But war crimes are STÝLL war crimes, even war should have ethics!

Ýnnocent people died and suffered, and someone must pay for that

Ýn Darfur case those who made those crimes should go to court and be punished for their crimes, but if we are accepting this as a concept, then we shouldnt only be talking about Sudan or just Sudanese generals !

What for ?!

What happened in Palestine was even way back before Darfur, but still no one condemn anyone of anything !

And they were / are also war crimes !

Why not Sharoon for example, and as you may know he is one of many !

You are comparing them together, then you must also have a good answer for that !

Do you ?

Hmmm, Are you defending Muslims femmeous ?!

Never thought i would see that !

i pass 

There are many estimates of casualties. Some non-governmental organizations use 200,000 to more than 500,000; the latter is a figure from the Coalition for International Justice.^[11] As many as 2.5 million are thought to have been displaced as of October 2006.^[12] (see Mortality Figures section, below).

The Sudanese government has been accused of suppressing information by killing witnesses since 2004, and tampering with evidence (such as mass graves) to eliminate their probative value.^[13][14][15] In addition, by obstructing and arresting journalists, the Sudanese government has been able to obscure much of what has gone on.^{[16][17][18][19]} While the United States government has described the conflict as genocide,^[20] the UN has continuously stopped short of using such language.^[7] (see List of declarations of genocide in Darfur). In March 2007 the UN mission accused Sudan´s government of orchestrating and taking part in "gross violations" in Darfur and called for urgent international action to protect civilians there. After fighting stopped in July and August, on 31 August 2006, the United Nations Security Council approved Resolution 1706 which called for a new 26,000-troop UN peacekeeping force called UNAMID to supplant or supplement a poorly funded and ill-equipped 7,000-troop African Union Mission in Sudan peacekeeping force. Sudan strongly objected to the resolution and said that it would see the UN forces in the region as foreign invaders. The next day, the Sudanese military launched a major offensive in the region.

On 14 July 2008, prosecutors at the International Criminal Court (ICC), filed ten charges of war crimes against Sudan´s President Omar al-Bashir, three counts of genocide, five of crimes against humanity and two of murder. The ICC´s prosecutors have claimed that al-Bashir "masterminded and implemented a plan to destroy in substantial part" three tribal groups in Darfur because of their ethnicity. The ICC´s prosecutor for Darfur, Luis Moreno-Ocampo, asked a panel of ICC judges to issue an arrest warrant for al-Bashir.^[21] The ICC prosecutor´s indictment has drawn widespread international criticism.^[22]. The warrant has now been given and has caused many concerns that this could further divide the opposing groups.

A rebellion started in 2003 against the Arab-dominated Sudanese government, with two local rebel groups — the Justice and Equality Movement (JEM) and the Sudan Liberation Movement/Army (SLA) — accusing the government of oppressing non-Arabs in favor of Arabs. The government was also accused of neglecting the Darfur for a Commission of Inquiry on Darfur to assess the Sudanese conflict. On 31 January 2005, the UN released a 176-Page report saying that while there were mass murders and rapes, they could not label it as genocide because "genocidal intent appears to be missing".^[24][25] Many activists, however, refer to the crisis in Darfur as a genocide, including the Save Darfur Coalition and the Genocide Intervention Network. These organizations point to statements by former United States Secretary of State Colin Powell, referring to the conflict as a genocide. Other activists organizations, such as Amnesty International, while calling for international intervention, avoid the use of the term genocide.

An 19 October 2004 UN News Centre article^[83] titled "UNICEF adviser says rape in Darfur, Sudan continues with impunity" reported:

Armed militias in Sudan’s strife-torn Darfur region are continuing to rape women and girls with impunity, an expert from the United Nations children’s agency said today on her return from a mission to the region. Pamela Shifman, the UN Children’s Fund (UNICEF) adviser on violence and sexual exploitation, said she heard dozens of harrowing accounts of sexual assaults – including numerous reports of gang rapes – when she visited internally displaced persons (IDPs) at one camp and another settlement in North Darfur last week. “Rape is used as a weapon to terrorize individual women and girls, and also to terrorize their families and to terrorize entire communities,” she said in an interview with the UN News Service. "No woman or girl is safe."

In that article Pamela Shifman also reported:

Ms. Shifman said every woman or girl she spoke to had either endured sexual assault herself, or knew of someone who had been attacked, particularly when they left the relative safety of their IDP camp or settlement to find firewood.

 

 

 

In January 2005, the UN Secretary-General´s International Commission of Inquiry on Darfur issued a well documented report that indicated that there was by then already some 1.6 million internally displaced persons as a result of the ongoing violence, more than 200,000 refugees from Darfur into neighbouring Chad, and that Government forces and allied militia had committed widespread and consistent war crimes and crimes against humanity including murder, torture, mass rape, summary executions and arbitrary detention. The Commission found that technically there was not a genocide in the legal sense of the term but that massive violations of human rights and humanitarian law were continuing. The Commission also found that the Janjaweed militia operated alongside or with ground or air logistical support from the Government´s armed forces.

Sudan — Sudan’s president threatened to kick out more aid groups and expel diplomats and peacekeepers on Sunday during his first trip to Darfur after an international court issued an arrest warrant against him for war crimes there.

Sudan has already expelled 13 of the largest aid groups operating in Darfur as part of its defiant response to the International Criminal Court’s decision last week to indict him. Sudan has accused them of cooperating with the Netherlands-based ICC. (bed cloggies)

Omar al-Bashir was greeted by thousands of cheering supporters, including some on horse and camel back, in the North Darfur capital of El Fasher. He told the throngs that others could also be told to leave if they got involved with the ICC case. The rally was attended by a number of Arab diplomats, including Egyptian, Jordanian and Lebanese. (oh, long live full of wisdom lebanon) Western envoys did not accompany the president on the trip.

"Those who respect themselves, we will respect them. Don’t interfere in something that doesn’t concern you," al-Bashir said. (al bashir, you fat ass idiot, you remind me someone from 7th century) "Don’t do anything that would harm the country’s security and stability."

"Whoever deviates, we will not let them stay, whether a voluntary organization, an envoy, a diplomatic mission or a security force," he added.

A Chinese company signed a contract to build a road in the area during the ceremony, reflecting Sudan’s continuing close ties with China despite the crisis. (oh, china, welcome, good friend)

The Netherlands-based ICC accuses al-Bashir of leading a counterinsurgency against Darfur rebels that involved rapes, killings and other atrocities against civilians. Up to 300,000 people have died and 2.7 million driven from their homes in the conflict since 2003, according to the U.N.

The rally in El Fasher took place far away from the teeming refugee camps where tens of thousands of refugees live after fleeing their homes because of attacks by the government-backed Arab militias.

Al-Bashir rejects the charges and refuses to deal with the ICC. Arab and African nations are pressing the U.N. Security Council to defer any prosecution for at least a year, hoping to defuse the crisis.

The crowd waved aloft pictures of al-Bashir as well as posters ICC prosecutor Luis Moreno Ocampo with an X drawn over his face.

"Tell them all, the ICC prosecutor, the members of the court and everyone who supports this court that they are under my shoe," he said. (what a wisdom! what a bravery! maybe you need your another trip to turkey to get trained by mr gul?) In the Muslim world, stepping on somebody or striking them with shoes is considered an insult.

Hundreds lined the streets of El Fasher as al-Bashir paraded through the town waving from the back of an open pickup truck. The governor of northern Darfur, Mohammed Kebir, told the crowd at the ceremony that this showed that the president was not afraid to visit a region where he supposedly had committed war crimes.

Al-Bashir accused aid groups of stealing funds allocated to Darfur, saying only a fraction of the donated money actually makes it to the people. (oh how truthful he is!)

"We tell them this is not going to continue," he said to the cheering crowd. "We are ready to fill the gap ... we will spend it from our pocket."

The United Nations and humanitarian workers say the order punches a giant hole in the safety net that has kept many Darfur civilians alive during six years of war in the vast, arid region of western Sudan.

Without the groups, 1.1 million people will be without food, 1.5 million without health care, and more than one million without drinking water — and outbreaks of infectious disease are a greater danger, the U.N. says. (the western aiders are idiots).

The little hospital built from plastic sheeting and wooden poles is not much to look at. Yet it serves 20,000 of Darfur’s suffering people, offering life-saving medical care to families who fled their homes with nothing.

Yesterday it was closed. Its patients were sent home and doctors and nurses told not to turn up for work. The Sudanese Government, having bombed more than two million people into the camps, is expelling aid workers in retaliation against a world that wants to arrest its President.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article5854944.ece

ps. are these international aid workers theres no problem in sudan (the glorious islamic republic that contributed mahdi to the world). theres no genocide in darfur.

Femme, what do all these links do above? Are you  ?

you crazy red hair dutch they are for you to educate you.

 Mission impossible.

of course you pass...

that´s because Canli kind of choked you in your own game... 

i pass

I am afraid it is very much a religious issue for many of the people in Turkey including our prime minister and his surroundings.

I gave examples about how they even used the childeren in their protests for Palestinians. 

Then how can you explain they do not say even a single word of critisisim to Sudaneese goverment. 

Possible they killed more childeren that Israel ever did. Plus they raped many of them..

Or course people will turn around and ask the question ´why´.

What is your explanation then?

Why dont YOU say anything for those muslim rapists?

Do you collect and send money to those childeren who got raped there as much as you did for palestinians for example?

As a country, if we are thinking to play an international role in politics, first of all we have to be consistent with the truth and your consistency with the truth should be based on some values NOT some cheap profits.

When people suspect that those values are values of NOT universal values, you wont make people believe what you say.. People will accuse you, being double faced.

When you go ´one minute´ at davos and remind ten commandments to Israel´i president then you host child rapists in your country and walk hand in hand  with them, do not utter a single word of critisisim.. and then expect people believe in you..

Yes..we did believe..A lot..

Hmmmmm, you still havent answered the question handsom

You have chosen that example, and surely you dont expect me to see part of it ´the part you have chosen´ and not all the other parts !

A semple answer to all the point in your post...

Ým not intending to be part of that game !

As it is a very long subject, but i will try to give some points

• As they are Muslims ´both sides´, and also Arabs, so i guess any accusation of taking the side of the Muslims rapists ´as you call them´ are actually....funny if not unlogical !
• Unless prime minister and his surroundings have told you that personally they are considering it a religious issue then i would agree, persuming they didnt do it, then i dont agree that they are considering it that way, they are simply continuing the role they are trying to play starting from Gaza going through Davos, and in my opinion its something they do to gain more ground with West rather than the East. ´their goal i mean ´
• As the conflict there between the tripes was up and down for many years ago starting from 1916 or something, and didnt become serious untill the discovery of the oil and uranium, then many parts became involved for their own interests, and suddenly one part obtain weapons some how and start war there, i find myself cant actually believe what those parts say about what is happening there, numbers or whatever...and also watching people of Sudan standing behind their president...make it even harder ! ´for me at least´
• Having same game played before in Kuwait war, then ending up by invading Ýraq and having control over the oil there...making the game there is more obvious really.
• Ýts funny that same people who murdered almost million person in Ýraq and have watched/blessed too the killing of thousands and thousands in Palestine and Lebanon crying now for the hummanity and accusing others, playing innocent while their hands are full of blood !
• Ý dont see there was/ are any court order for Bush or Sharoon, Paris..or many others there, the list is long actually, but there is not...then again why Beshir ?!!!
• So using the humanity crimes, and the children in this case by them are actually disgusting, because what they mean to them are just card, they are playing it wishing to win !
• Again its a conspiracy illusion as many like to call it when some weak or threatened countries try to read between the lines, even sometimes its clear and not just between lines, and want/try to protect themselves, April Glaspy in Ýraq wasnt an illusion and war in Ýraq isnt an illusion , and million people died in Ýraq also isnt an illusion !
• Ý never heard Al Bashir ordered his army to commit war crimes,have you ? But at same time all of us heared Paris and many generals  doing so, so again i dont see what are you comparing here ! Man denying and  the court couldnt  get the needed proves they supposedly having them to condimn him and another refused demands from all over the world to stop the killing and said NO, i wont !
• ´Ãm not the only bad guy but there are others and muslims too, even worse than me ´ thing wont work at least for who dont benefit from it, Ãsrael is not as bad as Sudan you say ?! ´Possible they killed more childeren that Israel ever did´

Last thing, i dont think people would accuse him of being double faced, but rather judge him of not buying what is being sold and joining the crowd based on that value ´i wont accept dividing other country as same as i dont accept mine to be divided !´ not the other value ´my interests first no matter whom i will step over ! ´

Values are values, not twisted values.

Thats why they still believe !

 Sure femmeous you pass, you are defending what you are hoping they will be  

First of all, as a mod, will you check and tell me if there are personal insults in the below thread Canli?

Please let us know if there are.. or not..if you are intending to delete if there are any or not

http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish/forum/forumTitle_39584

because you seem to be the mod on duty..

I had some serious questions about Canli´s moderation in the past..It is a perfect  time Canli to show that I was NOT right

And

I am still keeping my promise..

Doing so handsom when i saw it, so there was no need for that. 

Ý was actually hoping to hop in for some time to respond to this thread and another one then go to bed, so can you ´both´ please allow me this and not taking it from thread to another ?

But Canli..

I did not NOT respond to anything at all..(as I promised)

Why are you using " can you ´both´ "?

did I?  

 Well actually no

But i meant talking about it from a thread to another.

im passing you, as well as im passing cynic. not because i was wrong.

in order to bring what i have on my mind i posted other texts in this thread, i suppose you didnt read them since you are selective.

i decided that instead of quoting you and getting into a fight i bring my facts.

but canli you love fighting. when you provoked me i decided not to get into it.

such a bad behavour for someone who is a mod actually, provoker and instigator!

Sudan: President orders halt to overseas aid distribution

(its ok to starve unknown with no names black to death. who cares? important is to keep the land from the foreign spies)

Khartoum, 16 March (AKI) - Sudan´s president Omar al-Bashir ordered on Monday international organisations to stop distributing humanitarian aid in the country within a year, saying Sudanese aid groups will take over this job.

"We have ordered the ministry of humanitarian affairs to completely Sudanise the voluntary work in Sudan within one year, and after that no international organisations will distribute relief to Sudanese citizens, said al-Bashir during a rally of Sudanese armed forces.

"They (the international organisations) can just leave their food aid at the airport and Sudanese NGOs (non-governmental organisations) can distribute the relief."

He made the remarks as the joint United Nations-African Union (AU) peacekeeping mission to Darfur (UNAMID) welcomed the safe release on over the weekend of four aid workers who had been abducted at gunpoint on 11 March allegedly in protest over al-Bashir´s indictment by the International Criminal Court at the Hague.

The aid workers - three international and one Sudanese national - from the non-governmental organisation Doctors Without Borders (MSF)´s Belgian arm arrived by government helicopter at Sudan´s El-Fasher Airport in North Darfur.

The aid workers had been taken at gunpoint from their office in the town of Saraf Omra in North Darfur on 11 March. One other Sudanese staff member abducted at the same time had been freed earlier.

One of those released, Mauro d´Ascanio, an Italian doctor, said he was fine and that he was looking forward to speaking with his family. The other staff have been identified as Laura Archer, a Canadian nurse Raphaël Meunier, a French coordinator and Sharif Mohamadin, a Sudanese guard.

"We are very happy. This is a very good thing - we were really concerned about this," said AU-UN Joint Special Representative Rodolphe Adada.

Mohammed Osman Kibir, the Wali, or governor, of North Darfur state, said he personally intervened by negotiating with the abductors over the telephone four times. He flew with a government team to pick up the four aid workers.

While the identities of the abductors have not been made clear, they did inform Kibir that their actions were in response to the decision earlier this month by the ICC to issue an arrest warrant for al-Bashir last week for alleged crimes committed in the region.

Immediately after the ICC announced al-Bashir´s indictment of , the government ordered the expulsion of 13 aid groups which assist nearly 5 million people in Darfur, and the UN has continued to press the Sudanese authorities to reverse the expulsions.

Al-Bashir, the first sitting head of state to be indicted by the court, faces five counts of crimes against humanity, including responsibility for murder, rape and torture, and two counts of war crimes.

An estimated 300,000 people have died, either through direct combat or because of disease, malnutrition or reduced life expectancy, over the past five years in Darfur, where rebels have been fighting government forces and allied Arab militiamen, known as the Janjaweed, since 2003.

B"H

Wait a second, let´s not forget that it was the British Christians who called for a formal estanblishment of the state of Israel, though more than 3,000 years ago the Kingdoms of the first Jewish Patriarchs were erected and Canaan divided into Israel and Judea.  The Palestinians is a derogatory epithet against those non-Jewish settlers who were brought in; it´s a hellenistic term, Philistine, meaning "Invaders".  And no one seemed to care much about the arid, infertile land until orange groves and olive orchards and irrigation sprung up. Sharon may be argued as wrong or right, and because this is a Turkish site, where the majority of you are likely Muslims, your analysis of human atrocities will skew against Jews.  Sharon in your book is no more guilty of war crime than any Palesitnian is who decides to become a Shahid; who says because you kill your own life in the name of G-D it is more righteous than ordering someone else to do it in self-defense?  If illegal seizure of territory is of concern, then how far back must we go in time to see who was in possession of it when?

If you want to try someone for War Crimes, why not try the Assyrians 4,000 years ago; then none of us would have this mess.