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The Cairo declaration
(25 Messages in 3 pages - View all)
[1] 2 3
1.       Trudy
7887 posts
 31 Jul 2009 Fri 06:59 pm

Yesterday there was a program on Belgium television about the Cairo Declaration of Human Rights in Islam. I sadly haven´t seen it, I was too late. But I found that declaration with all 25 articles and I have some questions. Maybe someone can explain them? Canli?

 

The most important question for me is: if all human rights are subject to the Islamic Shariah, what is then left of human rights? What is such a declaration worth if not democracy but religion (i.e. clerics!!) tell how to act, to think.

 

For me it´s the same as a hardcore Christian party (we have one like that in my country - very small happily, only 2 seats out of 150 in Parliament, so no power), who says that the control of the state must be done according to the Bible and that a theocracy is the best form of government.

 

So don´t get me wrong, I´m not - repeating NOT - accusing anyone of anything, but while I do know how people think (here) about such a Christian party and their ideology, I do not know how people look at the Islamic version of it.

 

Do you think it is possible to maintain all human rights, including equality for everyone (man, woman, straight, gay, old, young etc), to develop a true and honest society with education possibilities, healthcare, elderly people care, freedom of speech, freedom of voting, unions, freedom of choice and more when religion predicts how to act?

 

I would love to hear some opnions. Enlighten me please.

 

2.       Elisabeth
5732 posts
 31 Jul 2009 Fri 10:07 pm

My personal opinion on the matter is that, although a country can "base" its laws on some religious concepts like "Thou shall not kill" or "Thou shall not steal" ect.....the mixing of religion and government should never, never, never happen.  

3.       vineyards
1954 posts
 31 Jul 2009 Fri 10:19 pm

Trudy, there is not a simple answer to your question(s). We should start by remembering that there is not just one type of person. If elaborate on this, we could conculde there is not just one type of society either.

 

What makes this world a colorful place to live in is the fact that there are indeed myriad of colors some of which don´t appeal to us and some just the other way around.

 

There is a certain mistake which is quite easy to make: trying to find the ultimate answer to the question although it surely does not exist. We must understand that there are people in this world who willingly have chosen to believe in either God or Allah no matter how irrational this may seem to be. Just like we mustn´t criticize those who feel they are a part of the nude camp community we musn´t criticize those who are more religious than us.

 

As long as we can let everyone share their lives freely, there is nothing to be afraid of. I therefore have no problems with Buddhists, Muslims, Pagans or you name who as long as they do not decide on the limits of my own freedom.

4.       Trudy
7887 posts
 31 Jul 2009 Fri 10:26 pm

 

Quoting vineyards

Trudy, there is not a simple answer to your question(s). We should start by remembering that there is not just one type of person. If elaborate on this, we could conculde there is not just one type of society either.

 

What makes this world a colorful place to live in is the fact that there are indeed myriad of colors some of which don´t appeal to us and some just the other way around.

 

There is a certain mistake which is quite easy to make: trying to find the ultimate answer to the question although it surely does not exist. We must understand that there are people in this world who willingly have chosen to believe in either God or Allah no matter how irrational this may seem to be. Just like we mustn´t criticize those who feel they are a part of the nude camp community we musn´t criticize those who are more religious than us.

 

As long as we can let everyone share their lives freely, there is nothing to be afraid of. I therefore have no problems with Buddhists, Muslims, Pagans or you name who as long as they do not decide on the limits of my own freedom.

 

And that´s exactly my point (and problem): if laws are based on relious beliefs (no matter what) they WILL decide on the limits of my freedom. I´m not religious so when I´m forced to live under that kind of ´human rights´, then I do not have freedom at all.

 

5.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 01 Aug 2009 Sat 12:28 am

 

I have never heard of such a declaration before, but it sounds like a joke anyway.

 

 

what these primitive minds can`t understand is that religion is not a worldly matter and it can`t be applied to worldly matters like politics and laws. If you want to believe in fake prophets and their fake books, it`s your choice. you can also worship cows or satan, but I have every right not to worship a cow.

 

Adopting human rights into religion is a contradiction in itself. you can`t be both a religious person and and defender of gender equality or human rights at the same time.  If you are a christian/jewish/muslim and female, you`re inferior to men and you accept it because it`s clearly written in the book you believe in. You can`t change it, you can`t manipulate it , there is not something called moderate christianity or moderate islam.

6.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 01 Aug 2009 Sat 12:35 am

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

And that´s exactly my point (and problem): if laws are based on relious beliefs (no matter what) they WILL decide on the limits of my freedom. I´m not religious so when I´m forced to live under that kind of ´human rights´, then I do not have freedom at all.

 

 

what do you think about the Irish law banning blasphemy? According to this law, no one in Ireland can criticize the christian god, but we see little to no criticizm about this. Is it less of a violation of freedom of speech when a christian country does it?



Edited (8/1/2009) by mhsn supertitiz

7.       Trudy
7887 posts
 01 Aug 2009 Sat 09:31 am

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

 

what do you think about the Irish law banning blasphemy? According to this law, no one in Ireland can criticize the christian god, but we see little to no criticizm about this. Is it less of a violation of freedom of speech when a christian country does it?

 

 Difficulties with reading, canim? I said to me all religions are the same. It´s you making a difference. Feeling attacked?

8.       Trudy
7887 posts
 01 Aug 2009 Sat 09:36 am

 

Quoting mhsn supertitiz

 

I have never heard of such a declaration before, but it sounds like a joke anyway.

 

 

what these primitive minds can`t understand is that religion is not a worldly matter and it can`t be applied to worldly matters like politics and laws. If you want to believe in fake prophets and their fake books, it`s your choice. you can also worship cows or satan, but I have every right not to worship a cow.

 

Adopting human rights into religion is a contradiction in itself. you can`t be both a religious person and and defender of gender equality or human rights at the same time.  If you are a christian/jewish/muslim and female, you`re inferior to men and you accept it because it`s clearly written in the book you believe in. You can`t change it, you can`t manipulate it , there is not something called moderate christianity or moderate islam.

 

 That you haven´t heard of it, doesn´t make it untrue!

 

Inserting links doesn´t work for me ( I guess all capacity for that has been used by someone else...), so here is the url:

 

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/cairodeclaration.html 



Edited (8/1/2009) by Trudy [Should there be one?]

9.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 01 Aug 2009 Sat 10:37 am

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 Difficulties with reading, canim? I said to me all religions are the same. It´s you making a difference. Feeling attacked?

 

attacked by what? I asked why the law banning blasphemy in Ireland doesn`t get any criticism from the christian world. you have difficulties with understanding what you read?

10.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 01 Aug 2009 Sat 10:38 am

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 That you haven´t heard of it, doesn´t make it untrue!

 

Inserting links doesn´t work for me ( I guess all capacity for that has been used by someone else...), so here is the url:

 

http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/cairodeclaration.html 

 

 

did I say it`s untrue? I just said I have never heard of it before, and it sounds like a joke. how did you get the idea that I called it untrue?

 

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