After a recent visit to Turkey, I have met and fallen for a turkish man.  But I don´t know what is expected of me, whether a relationship with an english girl, is ok?  or bad?   Also, I seem to be getting a lot of stick back home from people who read the magazines about turkish men just wanting english passports.... Help x

I would read thru the translation requests, it´ll give you an idea of how those relationship develop and how they (usually) end. In any case good luck to you, maybe yours will be the exception.

I agree with Melek74.

This site is littered with broken relationships which started with a holiday visit to Turkey.

There are certainly some exceptions, but these are definitely in the minority.

Language is a hurdle you can overcome, large age differences tend to be more of a problem, as is big differences in drinking and smoking.

Be very wary if you receive requests for phones, money, laptops etc.

Anyway, good luck with your relationship. if it is a mutual love I´m sure it will work out.

Unfortunately, you can only ever be sure of your side of the relationship.

But this is the same for any relationship, wherever you are! 

I would categorize turkish men in holdiay resorts into two :

1- Turkish man working there in the tourism industry (whatever he is doing)

2- Turkish men on holiday

I would be much suspicious against the first category.

The moment he starts asking for money, dump him. If he tells you a sad story about how his little sister needs shoes, and asks you to buy these shoes, dump him. Don´t get overwhelmed by the things he says. It´s not about what he says, but about what he does.

Turkish men are very good with worlds...usually Mine is a bit of a ...well, never mind But usually women get overwhelmed by sweet words, I love you´s (after the first week!) and romantic gestures.

In the end, roses don´t matter, words don´t matter, what really matters is what he really does, how he really lives his life.

I´ve been with my Turkish partner for over three years and I have seen couple crash and burn in large numbers. Simply because the girls reacted SOOO differently to these men than they would in their own country. They would never fall for these sweet lines out of the mouth of a ginger English guy

There are a lot of red signals you should watch for. For example, does he work in the tourist industry? And if that is the case, in what kind of business? The boys/men who work in bars/cafe´s and the like often flirt with girls who are with large groups or with their families, to make the whole group come again and again to their establishment. And they keep in contact with these girls so the girls also send their friends over to have a drink there... big business!

If his phone is turned off a lot...red signal.

If he asks for money, or starts talking about money problems when you are not that long together...red signal. Ofcourse, if you are together for a long time it´s normal that you share these kind of problems... I complain about my phonebill to my askim a lot too But I don´t expect him to pay it for me, and it works the other way around too.

If he says I love you on the first day...red signal... that means he says it a lot, and easily, and probably not only to you.

I think you can think of a lot of other red signals yourself too.

Good signals...if he is not the don juan type If he takes you to his family after a while, especially his mom. If he is interested in the things that are happening in your life, and if he tells you private stuff about himself that he doesn´t tell others. Also good, if you are very poor and he knows it If you are about the same age is also a good signal. And people say language can be overcome... well, I think that´s a bit strange... I think language is very important! If you don´t understand eachother, then ask yourself why did you get together in the first place?! Than your relationship must be based on something other then personalities or intellectual connection...what is left is sex, money, and visa

Tread carefully dear!  Turkish men are just like any other men.....some are good, some are bad.  Just don´t let your heart get carried away with what your head knows is wrong! Good luck!

Hi I am married to a Turkish man and he wasnt from the tourist parts and our marriage is very happy.  The only thing wrong is that the system for a visa is a big problem.  As so many ppl are just marrying just for a visa this has made it very hard for my hubby to get one.  We have been turned down twice now and this is our third try.  They keep pointing out stuff like our ages... only 9 years different.  Well we are still together and him and his family are the nicest ppl I could ever wish to meet.  I have never been down towards the tourist places so I cant comment on those guys.

The long and short is it can work wonders but takes bloooooody ages to get a visa.

 I would have to agree with you there.  It took my husband over one year to get a visa....and he had been here in the US before!  It is such a nightmare!  What is worse is to know that after all the aggrevation, you can still be turned down.  It can be very frustrating.....and even though we have been married for years....have a history, and a family together, they STILL give us a hard time when his visa renewals come up! 

 Well for us in the UK after a two year visa he has to take an english test to prove that he can speak understand communicate the english language.... god not even I can understand some ppl some of the time....lol

      Look my dear a nice story : once i was travelling from Didim to Ankara by Pamukkale Turizm ( to be read like a comercial ) by buss ( long, long way) . The buss was almost emty, i was in back. On the buss was a young beautiful, blue eyed driver ( there are 3 or 4 on a long route). He stayed in back..started to ask me if i want tea or coffee..he let me smoke there, we talked alot.... He got down on Aydýn because his working time was finished. We changed numbers... When my buss left Aydýn he kept looking after me like a ..cow you are taking to sacrifice... After few days i recieved some sms i couldnt bealive my eyes! ( You can find those kind of words only on our friend Canimarab´s translation requests  !) Was his wife making me in all ways and sending me back to the place where i was before i got born!

What really cracks me up is I only needed to be married to him for 3 years and I was able to become a Turkish citizen....no questions asked!   At least I don´t have to pay the 20 dollar Visa fee when we go back to Turkey every year!

Just curious, you mentioned visa renewals, I´m assuming you live in the USA, can´t he just get a green card or become US citizen?

 He has a green card but you still have to renew it every so often.  We just had the conditions removed from his temporary greencard.  Amazingly enough, he isn´t interested in becoming a citizen...shock and disbelief!

I can sort of see where he´s coming from. It was emotionally difficult for me as well to make that move, I know it´s irrational, but it sort of felt like treason against my own country. I had to be absolutely positive that I wouldn´ t be deprived of my Polish citizenship and fortunatelly US doesn´t force you to give up your passport (maybe with some exceptions), so I was calling the Polish consulate and asking the people at the INS just to be sure lol. It is a huge convenience though (no more renewals) and you don´t have to prove your status as often. AND you can vote too (which was the exciting part for me)!.  And I´ve heard there´s some debate about not allowing children who are born in USA to non-US citizens to have citizenship (I´m not sure if it´s law yet or not), so that´s another argument for it.

 I am quite amazed he doesn´t want to be a citizen.  I would not want to risk going out of the country to be detained in another country.  You have less risk being an American citizen.

Unless you travel in the Middle East or Pakistan, India, etc. I wouldn´t dare use my US passport there (unless I was travelling with an organized group).

No problems yet.  He is a perminent resident but still carries his Turkish passport.  The only problem we have is the Turkish nationals usually have to pay a higher Visa fee for other countries (example...when we went to Mexico, I didnt´ have to pay anything and he had to pay a couple hundred dollars.)

OMG, wow!!!   What a dipshit.. I must say that I was having lots of very "helpful" guys when I was in turkey, some of them, I´m sure must have been married!

I`m wondering why my comment was deleted and how come theH is not sharing his thoughts on the issue with us

 TheH is not here because you advised Jenniecakes to PM him .

Well Reyhan,

I hope you did not let yourself to be secrificed!!

But I hope you did not accuse his wife!!!

 He looked like a cow going to sacrifice...No i didnt acuse his wife. This kind of stories often happens with turkish men you meet on buss or on holliday resorts.

speaking from experience?

 Maalesef

Well I met many men on bus and holiday resort but it has never happened to me really..

did you expose enough flesh to get their attention?

How do you know you were supposed to that? did you do it and you got the attention? 

Enlighten me please...

OK - looks like a racist coment to me so I´m deleting it.

Forum Rules:

8. Do not post vulgar, hateful, threatening, derogatory, racist, sexist or obscene comments on this site. Any such content will be deleted. The user account of the author of such messages may also be deleted if it repeats. 

"kro" simply means someone vulgar, and who can`t speak proper Turkish, it`s English equivalence would be "redneck" or "hillbilly". I don`t see anything racist about that.

Can I ask you how come you`re so easily manipulated by theH?

You are vulgar..

Simply not less vulgar than a white who would call  blacks as ´nigger´ 

Can I ask how you developed super powers?  - I do live in Turkey you know and that´s not how I´ve heard it used.  I just wanted to see what you´d say but I couldn´t be bothered waiting.

as you know "kro" doesn`t refer to a skin color unlike "nigger" or a specific race, anyone based on his personality can be called a "kro" so it has nothing to do with racism . but good job at manipulating LIR

ahahahha, go ahead LIR, tell us how it`s used. what do we mean when we say "kroyum ama para bende" for example? Please don`t ask theH though.

Although the origin of it is the name for the kurdish boys. But it has been used by  Turkish racists to describe people who are dirty, vulgar and speaks with broken Turkish in order to humiliate the Kurds..

Shame on you!!!!

No idea - maybe ´kroyum´ means ´I am a Christian´ and I got it wrong and you were just displaying your religious hatred again.  Anyway I´m not supposed to argue on the forums - so think what you like

(PS - I´m not one and I don´t have any money) 

hmmmmm, so you mean Kurds are dirty and vulgar? that`s what you suggest.

you`re getting lower as you keep talking. you know very well that anyone vulgar can be called "kro" in Turkish, whether he is Turkish, Kurdish or American. Now, don`t try to deceive the people here who don`t understand Turkish, it`s a pretty cheap way.

can`t come up with a response?

Now LIR, this one is for you, a new Turkish word;

"kabiz"

That word sums up the current mental state of theH.

if you`re having a difficulty with understanding what you read, let me tell you again, unlike "nigger" "kro" doesn`t refer to a specific race. I`ve told that to many people including Turks and Kurds, and noone got offended as much as you did. I`m wondering why

The original poster is asking about starting a relationship with a Turkish man.   I should think between you the two of you are enough to put her off the idea for life!

I´m going out for a drink now - why don´t you too do the same (good job you´re 3000 miles apart though!)

Goodnight.

Thanks for the advice bout the relationship front, think i´m going to work at it.  Long distance i guess is hard.  I´m thinking we´ll just see how it goes.  See if he makes the effort.

Kýro, keko,hýrbo, zonta, maganda,hanzo and many other words have been traditionally used to describe ethnicities in Anatolia. Kýro and keko are Kurdish words meaning: man, pal, friend. In Turkish however these words describe rotund people lacking manners who show off with the hair on their chest and arms. Zonta and maganda are two words with similar meanings probably created by some artists. Hýrbo and Hanzo are used to describe Anatolian Turks. Much of this stuff has been inherited from the Ottomans who had despised whoever lived in Anatolia.

It is not nice to use any of these words.

dude... please stop making personal attacks at LIR because she rightfully deleted your post. you know... those posts of yours will be deleted if you continue on doing this.

phew...

personal attacks on LIR? That was actually directed at theH, not LIR.

Do you have to jump at everything, cw?

Generically, I agree with what you are saying..

They are the many words we use whoever we see in lower category without realizing how racist they are. 

When you call a person kro, what you are saying that ´you are vulgar and you are  as vulgar  as a kurd´.

Because the implication of it that ´all kurds are that vulgar´.

It does not matter if the person you are saying it to is not a kurd..

It does not matter if you mean it is a joke (what sort of joke that might be?)!! 

It does not matter what you think it is..

The matter is how  it is percieved by the others especially by the Kurds..

If I was a Kurd and a brainless person makes that racist joke in front of me, I would be fu*king talking about ´that person´s mother and her waxing habits´ for sure and that racist could not do anything about it.

Anyway, there is racism there for sure, but  because it is being used by many closet racists, does not make it less of a shameful thing!!

here you have it shown step by step.. clear enough?

I can`t see any personal attack in those sentences.

why are you getting so protective about LIR whenever she and TheH are mentioned in the same context? Any particular reason?

yeah, there are a couple conspiracy theories there, I´m sure you have some of your own.

it is a personal attack, so please stop it. LIR has not said anything offensive or personal to you, so keep it professional.

 I loved this!!!

in usa you should name african-american

in new zealand - black

in my country negro, bec black is impolite and offensive.

someone named the race - Negroid ...

 Correction:  Unless you have actually lived in Africa...then you are considered African American.  If you have lived in Mexico you are Mexican-American.  If you were born in America..you are just plain American.

If we were using the above logic raindrop...everyone in America would be European American accept for blacks & mexicans.

Is that really the case? I always thought that African-American was the PC term for all blacks.

 Correction!  You are wrong Teas - anyone with African ancestry is called African-American. This is because, unlike those of other nationalities born into the US, the original Africans were brought to the US against their will as slaves and, naturally, prefer to remember their origin.

Actually that´s not correct either, I have personally heard some black people object to the term of African-American based on the very fact that they personally have nothing to do with Africa (they weren´t born there, they have never even visited, etc). Whereas some use and prefer that term, others don´t care or are openly against it. So don´t assume you know what American blacks prefer if you want to become a spokesperson for them.

 My apologies - I should have realised that YOU were a better specialist on this subject - I was foolish enough to believe Martin Luther King´s definition

Further:  Just checked wikipedia, and think you should do the same (after all you are living in the US).  The term had been circulating since the 1950s and became prominent after a speach by the Rev. Jesse Jackson.   However, obviously YOU know better

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American

 Maybe you should read what you link:

The term African American carries important political overtones. Earlier terms used to identify Americans of African ancestry were conferred upon the group by colonists and Americans of European ancestry. The terms were included in the wording of various laws and legal decisions which some thought were being used as tools of white supremacy and oppression.^[112] There developed among blacks in America a growing desire for a term of self-identification of their own choosing.

With the political consciousness that emerged from the political and social ferment of the late 1960s and early 1970s, blacks no longer approved of the term Negro. They believed it had suggestions of a moderate, accommodationist, even "Uncle Tom" connotation. In this period, a growing number of blacks in the United States, particularly African-American youth, celebrated their blackness and their historical and cultural ties with the African continent. The Black Power movement defiantly embraced Black as a group identifier. It was a term social leaders themselves had repudiated only two decades earlier, but they proclaimed, "Black is beautiful".

In this same period, a smaller number of people favored Afro-American. In the 1980s the term African American was advanced on the model of, for example, German American or Irish American to give descendents of American slaves and other American blacks who lived through the slavery-era a heritage and a cultural base.^[112] The term was popularized in black communities around the country via word of mouth and ultimately received mainstream use after Jesse Jackson publically used the term in front of a national audience, subsequently major media outlets adopted its use. Many blacks in America expressed a preference for the term, as it was formed in the same way as names for others of the many ethnic groups in the nation. Some argued further that, because of the historical circumstances surrounding the capture, enslavement and systematic attempts to de-Africanize blacks in the United States under chattel slavery, most African Americans are unable to trace their ancestry to a specific African nation; hence, the entire continent serves as a geographic marker.

For many, African American is more than a name expressive of cultural and historical roots. The term expresses pride in Africa and a sense of kinship and solidarity with others of the African diaspora—an embrace

This is from the same link you gave.

At least I can distinguish MLK from Jesse Jackson.

 Excuse me?  I can´t see your point   The only thing I see is that your definition was wrong

Where have I mixed up Jesse Jackson with MLK?

You said you were going by MLK´s definition, and the part I quoted shows that the term wasn´t even in circulation until 1980s, which is over a decade after his death. The bolding part got a bit mixed up and it´s too late for me to edit it since you quoted my post.

My post was based on feedback received from actual "African Americans" not from an article. Whereas most can prefer that term, don´t assume it´s "naturally" something that they would do, as many do not.

 As I said, I read in MLK´s biography that he used this term and that it had been around in the 1950s but became popular after Jesse Jackson´s speech much later.

The fact, whatever your friends wish to be personally called, is that African American and Black American are the US Government´s official terms of anyone of African origin or ancestry

I think you are just nit picking because you found that you are wrong

I´m not denying the use of the term. Like I said: "Whereas some use and prefer that term, others don´t care or are openly against it." The point being it is not natural for every black person to want to be called African American, as your post suggests. 

And I think my "friends" as you call it, have a better idea what they, as black people living in the USA would like to be called then you would.

OK OK OK Melek - whatever you say!  I was talking about the definition of the word, you are talking about what is popular amongst people you know (I am sorry if the word "friends" offended you....OMG that is twice recently I have been pulled up for using this vulgar, disgusting word.....  

I still doubt that the majority of black people agree with you  - as far as I am aware this is the most politically correct term, and is endorsed by spokesmen/women within the black/african american (!) communities as well as the US government.

Hmmm...what an amusing thread....

Actually....Malcolm X talked about Afro Americans a lot earlier than Jessie...

"During the next three weeks, we’re going to have a series that will be designed to give us a better understanding of the past, I should say a better knowledge of the past, in order that we may understand the present and be better prepared for the future. I don’t think any of you will deny the fact that it is impossible to understand the present or prepare for the future unless we have some knowledge of the past. And the thing that has kept most of us, that is, the Afro-Americans, almost crippled in this society has been our complete lack of knowledge concerning the past. The number one thing that makes us differ from other people is our lack of knowledge concerning the past. Proof of which – almost anyone else can come into this country and get around barriers and obstacles that we cannot get around; and the only difference between them and us, they know something about the past, and in knowing something about the past, they know something about themselves, they have an identity. But wherein you and I differ from them is primarily revolved around our lack of knowledge concerning the past. And tonight, this is what we would like to go into. Next Sunday night, it’s our intention to go into the present, some of the tricks that are used to keep us at the level that we are on by making us think that we’re going forward when we are actually standing still. And then the third Sunday night, the 31st, it’s the intention of the Organization of Afro-American Unity at that time to spell out what we think are the best steps to take, and at that time also offer a program that we feel Harlem, people in Harlem, can participate in toward getting that objective or solution into becoming a reality."

Actually the PC term now is Person of Color....not colored persons, or colored people.....IE woman of color, man of color....and so forth.  At last we realize we are mostly mixed people.  Some are pure European....they are European Americans...Ted Kennedy was one of our more famous  Irish Americans.

The term Black American, or just Black is still in use.

Afro Americans was the term used in the 1970s but is not acceptable now.  African Americans was popularised by Jesse Jackson but the term originated from MLK (as per my earlier post)

 Agreed - as per my earlier post

 Thank you And to all other people, why are you hijacking this thread Post another topic in the forum about racial slangs or something and stop confusing the girl who wanted some REAL advise

Of course......you............as always.............are so well informed .............and knowledgable....at least your people have figured out how to have a decent health care system

Unlike some places

....Health Care in the USA

Welcome to TC barba mama......if you did not notice her question was answered numerous times already.  As threads usually digress after a few pages, this one has also.  You will just be banging your head  against the wall in getting upset about it....I know...it used to drive me crazy....now I just follow the thread...or try to guide it by posting something relevant in the thread.

 Why let an initial banal question get in the way of a good discussion?!

 I´m not always politically correct Melek..  I just think the whole African American title is just non-sense if you have NEVER even lived in Africa, I don´t think the title of African American is appropriate.  I´t like me saying I´m Irish-German American.  Another category we have here is Asians.but who is really an Asian?  Isn´t India partially in Asia...Then we went to caucasions..but it appeared to be a struggle for people to spell.  So to simplify..Your either American, black, other race or Mexican...and yes I would lump all Spanish speaking countries in this group.

Big difference, the others were not dragged over there as slaves...

 Ok, the ones dragged over as slaves..then should be entitled to African American.   I think that´s what I said initially.

+10000000

It is what it is.....around here people are Latino, Chicano, Salvadoreno...or whatever they are - American. If they are Asian...they are Chinese-American, Japanese-American, Korean-American...or what ever they are....and it they are mixed they are that. Have you heard the term Bi-Racial, or Tri-Racial...or Multi-Racial?

Actually no, those who were born in the US, are ALL American, whether they are black or white or hispanic. I sometimes hate it when people specifically call black people "African-American", as if those people did not belong in the same country. And we know that sometimes when the name "African american" is used, it´s there to inform of all the stereotypes around this person. I think that it only needs to be mentioned if the ethnicity is of importance in a particular situation.

..........no....some of them were invaded....IOW they were already here....like Amerindians.  FWIW...most Mexicans are at least part Amerindian............and at least a third of the current US was part of Mexico.

Hey I totally agree with this...but try telling that to an African American who insists they are !

 Maybe after hundreds of years of oppression they deserve a little "humouring" from you all americans

For how many generations more? And what about those who came to the US AFTER slavery was abolished? Do the Americans need to pamper them too?

Should we include those brought to America by English colonists in the tally? Or are we starting to count the hundres of years of oppression since 1776? Are you going to do your own penance for the slave trade in the British Empire or do you want us to do the humoring for you as well? 

I happen to agree. Especially since there seems to be a bit of a dislike between black people from USA and immigrants from Africa or the Carribean. It doesn´t seem fair to lump them all together.

Diclaimer:

The above is not meant as representative of the opinion of all Blacks in the USA and is based solely on a hearsay from a friend who immigrated from the Ivory Coast.

Actually this is an accurate observation......in general....the slave trade was a collaborative venture between Africans and Europeans.  In some Africal tribes, a twin would be done away with....being sold into slavery was a profitable way of dealing with it.   Some were prisoners of war......or... there were many ways to become a slave. 

I think the way these black African slaves were treated was unique.  As a more easily identified group, they were easier to target.  Any group that was easy to identify as "another" was treated in a similar manner....but the difference is the brutality of the treatment of those enslaved.  It was unique in it´s cruelty.  Those black humans were dehumanized, treated like animals or worse.  It´s hard to determine how many in the International community profited from their labor...even today....labor that was unpaid and done with  great suffering.

Read the story of  Solomon Northrup......

I think it all boils down to the fact that humans are in essense a social animal...aka...a pack, flock or herd animal.  It boils down to "us and them"......who is a member.."in good standing"....of the pack? Large flocks get winnowed down...to many smaller...more manageable ones.

You missed out the fact that the majority of slaves were neither sold by their own tribes or prisoners of war, but were merely taken.

The europeans may have started that horrible trade, but the fact is that despite independence, for hundreds of years segregation, oppression and racism were the "norm" in the US.  Unfortunately, the mentality still exists in some redneck quarters...

See how the heroic US Navy was fighting the pirates of Barbary Coast.

This subject is the best example I have seen of how history was warped in favor of certain nations who are now out to bring democracy, equality, freedom and brotherhood to others.

http://history1800s.about.com/od/americanwars/tp/barbarywars.htm

Read the page above; it is a disgrace as far as honest historians are concerned. What was actually happening in those days was that the Barbary Coast sailors (Moroccan, Tunusian, Algerian backed by Ottomans) were trying to fight off the American slave running ships operating between Africa and United States, and the US Navy was hard at work protecting her honest traders (!).

l

I dont think there is anything unique about being fed propaganda in school history lessons.  Each country feels they are immune to it!  I spent most of my adult life discovering that the "history" I was taught in schools was actually very biased and not always completely factual!!  

It is the job of "youth" to question authority and question establishment.  Unfortunately in the past few decades "youth" seem to be apathetic to truths and are more interested in the me culture.  The only student uprising we are likely to get is if they tried to ban mobile phones!

I never said it was surprising; I did mean it was disgusting.

Sigh.....me too....what a shock it was to find out the beautiful story was not true! +++

I´m sure you are aware of this story...

Somalia Piracy Began in Response to Illegal Fishing and Toxic Dumping by Western Ships off Somali

That does give another dimension to the issue....

+1

 Interesting how a story can radically alter when a previously omitted fact emerges...

After a recent visit to Turkey, I have met and fallen for a turkish man.  But I don´t know what is expected of me, whether a relationship with an english girl, is ok?  or bad?   Also, I seem to be getting a lot of stick back home from people who read the magazines about turkish men just wanting english passports.... Help x

I am reposting the original post as the whole thread has become totally irrelevant. 

But the resulting discussion was far more interesting than the original post, which lets face it had been answered here

OMG, I thought you needed advice for yourself LL!