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Hiroshima eye-witness account
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10.       vineyards
1954 posts
 07 Aug 2010 Sat 03:36 am

Well, let´s concentrate on the incident, if we can. Here are excerpts from Truman´s address in the aftermath of Hiroshima bombing.

"The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base. That was because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians. But that attack is only a warning of things to come. If Japan does not surrender, bombs will have to be dropped on her war industries and, unfortunately, thousands of civilian lives will be lost. I urge Japanese civilians to leave industrial cities immediately, and save themselves from destruction."

They would later say, Truman did not know at the time of speaking that Hiroshima was a city, he thought it was a military base... Oh yes, after years of organized effort that involved all sorts of classified activities and as the person who relied on the development of such a weapon to gain an edge at the war, he didn´t know that his boys had bombed a city.

Take a look at this:

A Gallup poll about presidential greatness, taken February 9–11, 2007, asked 1006 adults in the US, "Who do you regard as the greatest United States president?"[15]

  1. Abraham Lincoln (18%)
  2. Ronald Reagan (16%)
  3. John F. Kennedy (14%)
  4. Bill Clinton (13%)
  5. Franklin Roosevelt (9%)
  6. Other/None/No opinion (8%)
  7. George Washington (7%)
  8. Harry Truman (3%)
  9. George W. Bush (2%)
  10. Theodore Roosevelt (2%)
  11. Dwight Eisenhower (2%)
  12. Thomas Jefferson (2%)
  13. Jimmy Carter (2%)
  14. Gerald Ford (1%)
  15. George H.W. Bush (1%)
  16. Richard Nixon (0%)

 

Source Wikipedia.

 

I don´t know how many ashamed Americans there are out there but Harry Truman the proud perpetrator of the ugliest ever warcrime in recorded history ranks 8th, immediately after George Washington. If this is not an endorsement of his decisions as a president, what is it?

11.       alameda
3499 posts
 07 Aug 2010 Sat 03:59 am

 

Quoting vineyards

...........I don´t know how many ashamed Americans there are out there but Harry Truman the proud perpetrator of the ugliest ever warcrime in recorded history ranks 8th, immediately after George Washington. If this is not an endorsement of his decisions as a president, what is it?

I hang my head and am one American who is deeply ashamed of the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and I have to admit, your observations are are right. I have met a number of WWII vets who do condone the bombings.

It happened to be the USA who got the bomb first, it could have been others. What is wrong with humanity? War is horrible, and as we (humans) seem to be just inventing more hideous methods to main and kill. I´m afraid we will kill our hopes to survive at all as we pollute and kill the very structure we depend on for our survival.

Now in retrospect, those not involved at the time have the luxury to condem the actions. The problem is, we are still doing it. There has to be a better way!

 

 

12.       alameda
3499 posts
 07 Aug 2010 Sat 06:05 am

 

Quoting Elisabeth

 Not a fair statement and I am personally offended.  It´s not fair to assume that the general public is "jubilant" about this.  It was a horrible event! 

 

 Elisabeth, I don´t think vineyards was referring to you, or even the majority of contemporary Americans, but at the time the bombs were dropped, that WAS the reality. Most peoplein the US were jubilant...that´s a fact! I don´t think most of them had any idea what happened though.  They were just happy the war was over.

I know, I have met many of those who were alive at the time, and I spoke with them within a closer timeframe than you. I am older than you and discussed the matter with them when they were much younger. Talk with them today and people have changed their minds...but what are we doing today that we will be ashamed of tomorrow?



Edited (8/7/2010) by alameda

13.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 07 Aug 2010 Sat 01:20 pm

Ofcourse people were jubilant during that time! We have to understand, it was not the time of internet connections with youtube movies. All people heard was "a bomb was dropped, and the war is over!" Nobody fully understood what the implications of these bombs ment, about radiation sickness and what not. All they heard was, the war was over, and their sons, fathers, and brothers would be coming home soon. Their sons, father´s and brothers would not have to fight with guns, and fear bombs being dropped on their own heads anymore. The surrender of Japan, and thus the end of the war in the Pacific, was a direct effect of those bombs. If the bombs were not dropped, Japan would not have surrendered at that time. THAT is why people then were happy about it, and I fully understand that. You can not blame the American civilians at that time for not having the information about those bombs that we have now.

 

We know now how horrible the effects of nuclear bombs are. We can´t blame simple Americans of the past for not having that knowledge. All we can do know, is look at the present, and work together to rid the entire world of nuclear weapons TODAY.

14.       vineyards
1954 posts
 10 Aug 2010 Tue 12:39 am

I generally don´t want to criticize bygone periods relying on today´s standards. These people spent decades watching movies depicting the heroism of their soldiers with no mention of the cruelties and crimes that happened in between. A few directors shot a few alternative films illustrating the dark side of the past wars the American army got involved in.

Not just America, even our TV kept broadcasting an endless string of war movies. The themes and the settings were numerous but there was one thing that never changed, the Americans played the good guys. They were the good guys against the Indians, Vietnamese, Koreans and Germans.

Now it is not difficult the understand why these people felt jubilant at the time. Unlike you I think they would still be jubilant if the incident happened today. It goes without saying there are many Americans with common sense. For your information, the crew of Enola Gay repeatedly stated they had no remorse of the incident:

 

"No, I had no problem with it," he told The Guardian in 2002. "I knew we did the right thing."

When he was given the assignment he said he thought, "Yes, we´re going to kill a lot of people, but by God we´re going to save a lot of lives. We won´t have to invade (Japan)."

Other crew members made similar statements. I think one such statement was made a very short while ago. These people feel no remorse, the government feels everything was done by the book, judges see nothing wrong.

 

Well, they fear other countries may develop nuclear arms. Even if the US has the largest stock of nuclear weapons in their arsenal, they don´t want countries like Iran to develop one (this point was repeatedly denied by Iran.) If Iran does not stop, the US will have to invade Iran. As you see, the US is one country behind every power game in the world. I understand they are a super power but I have a right to criticize. Thank God, I still have that right. Hope my children can say the same thing some 40 years later.



Edited (8/10/2010) by vineyards

15.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 10 Aug 2010 Tue 12:32 pm

Well, I can also understand that the people of that time, who stood behind it then, stand behind it now. I wouldn´t expect any less. I just think there is a difference with people who grow up in the current day and age. But it is true that the war stopped, after the second bomb was dropped. obody knows how many people would have died, if the war continues in the Pacific. But in the end, it becomes a question of ethics. It´s just like the question of torture. Is it okay to torture somebody, if that torture can save the lives of 1 million people... how about 1000 people... and 100... 10? It is difficult to draw lines here.

The first populair movies that had critique on the army and wars came about in the late 1960s, early 1970s. People have a slightly more nuanced view now, but the American army is actively involved in Hollywood. No, this is not a conspiracy theory, but officially acknowledged. The American army has a movie-bureau. People who make a movie about the army can ask this bureau for help. The Army will only help if the movie is positive. It has happened in the past that directors have changed scripts, just to please the army officials. With the help the army gives, a director will save a LOT of money, since they can use tanks, trucks, guns, planes, clothes, explosions, etc.

16.       vineyards
1954 posts
 10 Aug 2010 Tue 01:06 pm

The biggest paradox here is:

America is an affluent country

Boasts of setting an example for democracy for other countries

She is the most advanced country technologically

A super power whose reach has extended to the outer space

 

Yet, we are talking about the same old fashioned machoism, nationalism etc.

If some third world country did this, I would understand,thinking: "The guys need some time to improve themselves. " Instead, what we have in America is explained concisely in a speech made by the Italian prime minister, "There is a big difference between the perceptions of democracy in the US and in Europe."



Edited (8/10/2010) by vineyards

17.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 10 Aug 2010 Tue 02:42 pm

The Italian government is not the best government to quote about democracy And in any case, the time that America was in the forefront of anything is behind us. I do not know a lot of people who still see America as the land of freedom and opportunity.

18.       alameda
3499 posts
 10 Aug 2010 Tue 06:13 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

The Italian government is not the best government to quote about democracy And in any case, the time that America was in the forefront of anything is behind us. I do not know a lot of people who still see America as the land of freedom and opportunity.

 

You are most probably correct, but I shudder to think of the next super power....will it be China? Hardly a paragon of great human rights.

What ever America has done to show it´s power, is not unique to the USA. Who is in power does what they will to keep the power...it´s the old case of "might makes right"

I keep the hope humanity will realize our interconnectivity and work together for a more humane world. After all, we are all on the same spaceship earth.

19.       vineyards
1954 posts
 10 Aug 2010 Tue 10:38 pm

So far, people have been voting for charismatic and good looking leaders. I think people secretly dislike high IQ leaders. They prefer politicians who talk the way they can understand. Intelligent people tend to be aloof and they put a distance between themselves and society. I would like to see a US leader who can win the hearts of the people all over the world with his excellent human qualities. That is a proven way that leads to stardom for a political leader. Remember Ghandi.

 

20.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 11 Aug 2010 Wed 02:04 am

In the US a large part of the people tend to vote for the person with the best campaign team. As a foreigner, I remembered George W. Bush as the junky-son of the former president. But somehow the campaign team made the American public forget that the guy stuffed his nose with white powder! And he became the president... twice! Even after he messed up the first time already. Well... not really twice... I remember something about Al Gore actually getting more votes

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