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Court evidence reveals KCK terror network is worse than PKK
(18 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
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10.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Oct 2010 Thu 12:35 am

Anybody is willing to say what is the crimes of these people?

The original article does not mention any ´tangable´ crimes..

No crime but just an eye catching headline.. Yeah.. Yeah..  lol

Everybody KNOWS that it is a political case..And this case helped PKK to strengthen its position and its cause..




11.       oeince
582 posts
 21 Oct 2010 Thu 01:17 am


Head of these "crimeless" people is APO!

Murat Karayılan, 2nd man for PKK, is the head of steering commitee,

Zübeyir Aydar, Cemil Bayık, Sabri OK, Kazi, and others.

The most bloody terrorists!

Is this the totally innocent organisation?

PKK is a minor organisation of KCK!

These terrorists are fed up with blood!

Bloody hell you all!


Edited (10/21/2010) by oeince

12.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Oct 2010 Thu 03:02 am

Actually, the best to explain the situation is to play a game:
Think of a foreigner..for the sake of the argument that person living in, say, France..Has no idea of Turks or Kurds.. That person comes to Turkey; has kebab; raki; love affairs ; duduing etc..In the end the person asks a Turk about the political situation..The Turk (an average one ) says ´Ah we are a heaven like-country but we have a Kurdish problem´ and then adds ´how horrible; backwards; feudal Kurds are´ and then says that ´They are all supporting terrorism´. The foreigner asks "why is that? why are they not joining the political process? establishing parties?" and then the Turk will say ´no ..They support terrorism..They dont understand the politics´.
Then, the foreigner gets curious, investigates on the net and learns that :
-Kurds established a party in 1991 HEP and had 8 MPs.. The party is closed at the same year.
-Kurds did not give up the political system and established DEP (and 8 MPs joined this party)
-Because they took their oath in Kurdish language their party DEP was  closed and MPs were put in jail..
-Again, Kurds did not give up and form a new party, HADEP and the party gets 37 local mayors in local elections..
-But the party was closed in 2003 by the constitutional court and 46 party members are banned from politics for 5 years..
-Then Kurds still dont give up and establish a new party DTP and won 21 MPs in 2007 election and 99 mayors in 2009 local election..
(this section is KCK one) lol
-Many members of that party were arrested  after the last local elections (many new mayors/ex mayors etc)
-Then that party was closed a year ago..
-Again, Kurds established a new party BDP..
Now what will that person from France will think? eh?

13.       oeince
582 posts
 21 Oct 2010 Thu 07:11 pm

It would be better to judge the individuals who aims to split the country in cooperation with PKK. Because some sinisters introduced those party closures like the goverment is against Kurds. A goverment who spends her most efforts on the Kurdish initiative can´t be against Kurds! The matter is terrorism regardless the orign of the terrorists. I think the case of KCK roots in those points.

The countries image is important for all open societies and i guess all foreigners who are against terrorism supports Turkey´s policies.

14.       Daydreamer
3743 posts
 21 Oct 2010 Thu 09:16 pm


Quoting oeince


The countries image is important for all open societies and i guess all foreigners who are against terrorism supports Turkey´s policies.


I wonder if you´re as anti-Chechnya, anti Kosovar and anti-Basque as you are against Kurdish terrorism. Your assumption would be right if being against one side would mean being in favour of the other. Meanwhile it´s possible to be anti Kurdish terrorism and anti Turkish policy of dealing with the Kurdish issue. One side being wrong, doesn´t mean the other being right. And the fault is, as usual, aomewhere int he middle.

oeince liked this message
15.       oeince
582 posts
 21 Oct 2010 Thu 10:42 pm

Turkish Goverment has made mistakes on diversity adminstration. We assumed that terrorism is just a militarial problem and didn´t improve our civil institutional structure to solve the problem, until recently.

Terrrorism is a problem that can be solved with carrot and stick strategy. So far, we just used stick and didnt use it intimidating enough. We missed international dimensions of the matter.

However, nowadays, I think the policy of Turkey against terrorism is realistic and result oriented.

I try to look fair to Kosovo, Chechnya and Bask issues as well. Kosovo and Kurdish problem aren´t simialr issues but, speaking of, Serbia was the attacker after the dissolution of Yugoslavia and I was against the attacker in that case as well.

Checnya rather fits our case. Let me remind you that Chechens declared freedom like tens of other countries after the dissolution of Soviets. They didn´t make terrorist actions to split the country.

Me and many people in Turkey supports decentralisation. Local freedom shall be enlarged. However, if a group of people covets your land, it´s not easy to take these steps.

Turks didn´t occupy Kurds lands. Both Kurds and Turks blood have been shed to save these lands. Now a group of terrorists covets these lands. They organise terrorist attacks to create chaos with the aim of splitting the country. There is a saying in Turkey; The wolf likes hazzy air, (Kurt puslu havayı sever)

In that situation, the goverments duty is to dissolve the hazzy air and create bright air.

Edited (10/21/2010) by oeince
Edited (10/21/2010) by oeince

16.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 23 Oct 2010 Sat 08:06 pm

A fantastic Murat Belge classic:

It is here . It is in Turkish, but I will try to translate the gist of it..

After explaining the inconsistencies in Turkish politics,
He says that:

You can not solve this problem by splitting the Kurds as "good Kurds", "bad Kurds" and clearing the path for good Kurds by eliminating the bad ones..
After all those years of conflict, the last one, pioneered by PKK, we can say that the Kurdish side does not trust the Turkish side..This mistrusting is growing at two levels:
-People´s level. There is a growing Kurdish animosity amongst Turks for one reason or another..This animosity is getting into our Kurdish citizens minds..How can they think living together with  people who are showing the utmost recklessness with zero empathy!!
-State´s level. Some people, PMS are saying a few good words and then continuing with the known politics..

Same thing is happening..KCK trials, PM#s speeches etc, everything is strengthening the distrust

But the important thing  from now on, whatever the differences Kurds have, anything coming from ´outside´ is improving the reflex of the Kurds to stay shoulder to shoulder with each other..Reflex is chosen specifically, because reflex does not come from the brains, reflex is a subliminal reaction. We taught Kurds to be like that all those years

So, don´t expect Kurds to say ´ah they are eliminating the bad Kurds amongst us. When you go to USA, Iraq, whoever you go to get promises to act against PKK. These Kurds are not thinking ´ah they are taking security measures against the terrorist´. Not because they are from PKK, because when Turkey is behaving like this, it does not matter for them if they are from PKK or not..

probably the government thinks that Islam is our glue..Islam is the value which will keep us together..There are many religious people in Kurds..But there are serious number of people who don´t act with the religious beliefs at all. If you want to connect with them, being together with them wont be via religion..It can be only via democratic values..And without finding a common ground with them, this problem wont go away..PKK was not born with the support of religious Kurds and it did not come to these days with them.

It is like: The state is going into Kurdish people,´we have looked at it..we have evaluated the situation..some of your fingers and your toes are not great..maybe even a leg or an arm of yours can be really bad..Now we will cut them off for your benefit..And you will be much better´

Who are you? what is it you have looked at? what are you credentials and licence? Beside that man who has seen many surgeons like you and lost many limbs..
But never got better..

17.       oeince
582 posts
 24 Oct 2010 Sun 12:24 am

If I would comment that article I would write,

Mr. Belge, i get your point of view and i respect that however, terrorism has bagun by Kurdish hawks. Turkish hawks deepened the problem. Nowadays, Turkish Hawks lose power. Turks are cleaning their doorsteps. But Kurdish hawks are still there! How can that problem be solved as long as the hawks remain?

Aren´t Kurds also supposed to clean their doorsteps?

Edited (10/24/2010) by oeince

18.       oeince
582 posts
 28 Oct 2010 Thu 08:14 pm

Did you read Murat Belge´s last article? He also points out the effct of hawks. I believe, he soon writes about the effect of Kurdish hawks on terrorism.

BTW, what do you think about the apolgy of Murat Karayılan, who is the head of steering community of the KCK/PKK, for killing civilians?

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