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30.       si++
3785 posts
 04 Dec 2011 Sun 09:41 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

 Likewise, we dont have to make an extensive explanation when to reply to that question. But , yes , we can drop the pronouns if we add the explanatory sentences after the first one.

 

 

And that´s what a pro-drop language is all about.

31.       tunci
7149 posts
 04 Dec 2011 Sun 10:23 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

And that´s what a pro-drop language is all about.

 

 we have freedom on dropping the pronouns in Turkish . Therefore Turkish  gives us flexiblity on dropping the pronouns. In this respect it works both ways. What I mean is that it is not a must. To me when to say  it is a "pro-drop language " it is a rule that is strictly forbidden or strictly allowed. One way or another. I know there are always exceptions but here may be we should alter the name into " Pro-droppable language " instead of " Pro-drop language". You know what I mean ? For example ;

[Bizim] çay içmemiz onları rahatsız etti.

 Our drinking tea disturbed them.

32.       Abla
3647 posts
 05 Dec 2011 Mon 12:04 am

Language is not strict borders, language is continuums. This concerns classification of languages also. I am no specialist of dropping or not dropping but it seems clear to me that many languages drop but some drop more than others. The most probable sentence element to be dropped is the subject. This happens in many languages. The next to go is the object. In Turkish, the object also often has to go. Look at recipes. I paid attention to this and even asked about it recently: http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_52102. They say in Japanese even other elements can take their things and go.

It is a continuum, not a strict classification. Just like in auxiliaries which we also discussed some weeks ago: it is not that some languages have auxiliaries and some don´t. There are many alternatives in between.

I wish instead of paying attention to the bubbling of this discussion everyone would read scalpel´s post nr 18 because it is well thought of and a good basis for discussion. The main idea in it is not to criticize anyone or anything but to really look at this issue in detail. At least I want to see it this way.

But the reason why pro-drop first appeared in this discussion was si++’s assumption that dropping 3rd person pronouns significantly lessens the chance of it to carry in the sentence elements like masculine and feminine marking. It sounds reasonable to me and as far as I understand no one has objected this idea.

TC is an important part of my life and it depresses me to see nice threads changing into disputes here. We are here not to prove our superiority but to co-operate. It´s not about us, it´s about this fine language which we are all interested in.



Edited (12/5/2011) by Abla

Henry liked this message
33.       tunci
7149 posts
 05 Dec 2011 Mon 10:36 am

 

Quoting Abla

Language is not strict borders, language is continuums. This concerns classification of languages also. I am no specialist of dropping or not dropping but it seems clear to me that many languages drop but some drop more than others. The most probable sentence element to be dropped is the subject. This happens in many languages. The next to go is the object. In Turkish, the object also often has to go. Look at recipes. I paid attention to this and even asked about it recently: http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_52102. They say in Japanese even other elements can take their things and go.

It is a continuum, not a strict classification. Just like in auxiliaries which we also discussed some weeks ago: it is not that some languages have auxiliaries and some don´t. There are many alternatives in between.

I wish instead of paying attention to the bubbling of this discussion everyone would read scalpel´s post nr 18 because it is well thought of and a good basis for discussion. The main idea in it is not to criticize anyone or anything but to really look at this issue in detail. At least I want to see it this way.

But the reason why pro-drop first appeared in this discussion was si++’s assumption that dropping 3rd person pronouns significantly lessens the chance of it to carry in the sentence elements like masculine and feminine marking. It sounds reasonable to me and as far as I understand no one has objected this idea.

TC is an important part of my life and it depresses me to see nice threads changing into disputes here. We are here not to prove our superiority but to co-operate. It´s not about us, it´s about this fine language which we are all interested in.

 

 You are right Abla, Yes, Language is not strict borders, it is alive, developing, many times flexible, open to reforms. may be I was wrong when I said it has to be prohibited strictly when it is to say as a rule. But what I was trying to say is because that issue works both ways [pro and non-pro] , it is not fair to classify Turkish as just "pro-drop Lang.".

Sorry to hear that it feels like depressing when things turn into like this. It is my fault that I jumped into the thread by inviting guys into the good manner discussion. I preached unnecesarily. Sorry. I shouldnt have involved discussion in the first place.. You can carry on your thread , i will not involve anymore.

34.       Abla
3647 posts
 05 Dec 2011 Mon 04:10 pm

No sorries for me. You acted like you always act, tunci: emphatic and responsible. But if we were all like you it would be so dull here. It doesn´t harm if there is some action now and then. As for my part, kusura bakmayın.

35.       Abla
3647 posts
 05 Dec 2011 Mon 05:19 pm

...I mean bakmayınız.

36.       tunci
7149 posts
 05 Dec 2011 Mon 05:57 pm

 

Quoting Abla

...I mean bakmayınız.

 

 Kusur yok, no fault. Kimsenin kusuru yok, btw , lets get over this subject.

The thing is that personally I learned many things since last year when I became member of this website. I thought I knew everything in Turkish but I was wrong, as a philologist of eastern languages, I noticed that languages can be so complicated that even Native speakers have no idea whatsoever.

37.       MarioninTurkey
6124 posts
 07 Dec 2011 Wed 11:48 am

 

Quoting scalpel

 

Here are the names (that come to my mind at the moment) for both boys and girls:

deniz, derya, ismet, ayhan ..

 

 

şafak

 

 

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