Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Language

Language

Add reply to this discussion
Between Vocabulary and Grammar
(14 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
1.       Abla
3647 posts
 03 Dec 2011 Sat 05:32 pm

There is one thing I would like to learn. I hope I can explain it. It is something between dictionary and grammar, kind of using grammar for lexical purposes or co-operating of noun case marking and verbs. And it´s very Turkish.

I am attracted to expressions like

         Duymazlıktan geldi ´He pretended not to have heard´

when I see them. There is no word meaning ´pretend´ in the sentence but the meaning comes from a very common verb combined with an ablative ending attached to deverbal noun (am I right?).

These phrases are a lot. Often they have to do with modality or aspect or other finetuning of the meaning.

The problem is expressions like this are hard to memorize. That´s why I thought we could collect them somewhere when we see them. (Of course I could collect them into my own files but it wouldn´t be even half as fun.)  Natives, of course, can list a dozen of them every time they exhalate but even learners can come up with something.

In the old threads I have found information like this about olmak but it is not only olmak that works this way.



Edited (12/3/2011) by Abla

2.       si++
3785 posts
 03 Dec 2011 Sat 06:44 pm

 

Quoting Abla

There is one thing I would like to learn. I hope I can explain it. It is something between dictionary and grammar, kind of using grammar for lexical purposes or co-operating of noun case marking and verbs. And it´s very Turkish.

I am attracted to expressions like 

         Duymazlıktan geldi ´He pretended not to have heard´

when I see them. There is no word meaning ´pretend´ in the sentence but the meaning comes from a very common verb combined with an ablative ending attached to deverbal noun (am I right?).

V-mazlıktan or V-mezlikten gelmek = pretend not to V

These phrases are a lot. Often they have to do with modality or aspect or other finetuning of the meaning.

The problem is expressions like this are hard to memorize. That´s why I thought we could collect them somewhere when we see them. (Of course I could collect them into my own files but it wouldn´t be even half as fun.)  Natives, of course, can list a dozen of them every time they exhalate but even learners can come up with something.

In the old threads I have found information like this about olmak but it is not only olmak that works this way.

I guess you can find these kind of things listed (and briefly explained) in a good dictionary. Do you have any at your hand?

 

3.       Abla
3647 posts
 03 Dec 2011 Sat 06:53 pm

I use the dictionary which is linked to this page. Don´t tell me it´s bad because it is not. Yes, I could probably find them but some communication would make them easier to memorize. Besides, you don´t usually go to gelmek when you look for the meaning ´pretend´. I keep finding them accidentally.

4.       si++
3785 posts
 03 Dec 2011 Sat 07:04 pm

 

Quoting Abla

I use the dictionary which is linked to this page. Don´t tell me it´s bad because it is not. Yes, I could probably find them but some communication would make them easier to memorize. Besides, you don´t usually go to gelmek when you look for the meaning ´pretend´. I keep finding them accidentally.

 

If you go to the "gelmek" item and don´t find "V-mezlikten gelmek" explained there, then it is not that good.

5.       Abla
3647 posts
 03 Dec 2011 Sat 07:09 pm

Well, in good hands it is a good one.

6.       gokuyum
5049 posts
 03 Dec 2011 Sat 09:07 pm

Duymazlıktan geldi. You can also come across another version of it which is gramaticaly incorrect but common.

Duy-ma-maz-lıktan geldi. (Double negativity)

 

I guess you want to create a list. Here are more examples. I guess they are not too many.

1)Bilmezlikten gelmek

2)Görmezlikten gelmek

3)Anlamazlıktan gelmek

4)İşitmezlikten gelmek

 



Edited (12/3/2011) by gokuyum

Abla liked this message
7.       Abla
3647 posts
 23 Dec 2011 Fri 07:11 pm

I guess I found it:

www.tureng.com

If you make a search for gelmek, for instance, skip the most usual results and roll the page down, you will find a list meanings of “gelmek” with other terms: 100 result(s). I guess this way one can find just anything. I think the best search words are the commonest verbs.

Looking for idioms tureng gives so detailed answers that I feel like I am cheating when I use it.

8.       Abla
3647 posts
 30 Dec 2011 Fri 09:42 pm

There are some occurances of gelmek in idioms which I can’t understand even in English. Could someone please give examples of sentences where these expressions are used?

arkasından gelmek ’tag (along) after, tag (along) behind’

ayrı ayrı gelmek ‘straggle back, straggle in’

demeğe gelmek ‘add up to’

katakulliye gelmek, keleğe gelmek ‘be had’

görmezlikten gelmek ‘connive at’

birinin aklına gelmek ‘strike’

9.       Mavili
236 posts
 31 Dec 2011 Sat 06:29 am

 

Quoting Abla

There are some occurances of gelmek in idioms which I can’t understand even in English. Could someone please give examples of sentences where these expressions are used?

arkasından gelmek ’tag (along) after, tag (along) behind’

Essentially to go with somone or others, to somewhere.

"We´re going to the concert, you may tag along with us." 

ayrı ayrı gelmek ‘straggle back, straggle in’

It means to fall behind, either intentionally or unintentionally.

"njured caribou often straggle behind the heard, making them easy prey for wolves."

demeğe gelmek ‘add up to’

When one is trying to fully understand something based on a series of facts.

"Something doesn´t add up here, we got the message from him yesterday, but no one has seen him in days."

katakulliye gelmek, keleğe gelmek ‘be had’

I think it means to be like tricked or fooled.

görmezlikten gelmek ‘connive at’

Its not a common word anymore, but it kind of means to be decietful.

birinin aklına gelmek ‘strike’

Strike actually has 2 meanings in English.  to Protest or to hit, bash.

"The workers have been on strike now for 3 days."

I wasn´t sure if you wanted to know the meanings in English. {#emotions_dlg.bigsmile} At least these are definitions of them as i understand them, as a native English speaker.

 



Edited (12/31/2011) by Mavili

10.       Abla
3647 posts
 31 Dec 2011 Sat 02:15 pm

Thanks, Mavili. I guess you understood my problem. I look at this Turkish idiom and have no idea what it might mean. Then I see the English translation  -  a verb with fourteen different meanings. At that point it looks like I can´t get further by myself. Actually I think the knot may be opened from either side. I will take a closer look at your explanations as soon as possible.

(14 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
24 HOUR FLASH SALE for learning Turkish e-...
qdemir: ...
Grammar Textbook
qdemir: ...
E-T: I see you have done this before?
harp00n: Bunu ... daha önce de ... Bu konuda iyi olduğun ç...
E-T: It´s one of the things on my bu...
denizli: hmmm I ... think there are suffixes ... nor ... But I know wha...
T-E
og2009: ...
T-E
og2009: ...
coronavirus
og2009: ...
OUR FRIENDS
og2009: ...
Coronavirus
harp00n: ...
TLC servers hacked, all user emails & pass...
alerque: This sites entire user database seems to have been hacked, I´m ...
T-E
og2009: ...
Individually Tailored Private Turkish Less...
sumrutemur: Do you want to learn Turkish? Do you want to improve your speaking, wr...
Random Pictures of Turkey
Add thumbnails like this to your site
Most liked