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Dual voiced verbs
1.       tunci
7149 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 01:29 am

 

Dual Voiced Vebs

Some verbs that can get both reflexive and passive voice are classified as dual voiced verbs. Such as ;

reflexive

"atılmak " as in " tehlikeye atılmak " [ to put oneself into a danger ]

                                                   [to put oneself in the lion´s mouth]

Büyük bir tehlikeye atıldı. [he/she put himself/herself into a big danger.]

passive

"atılmak " --> to be thrown  as in " taş atıldı " [ a stone was thrown ]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

reflexive

"bulunmak" ---> to be present, to attend.

Bugün toplantıda bulunacağım. [ I will be present at the meeting today ]

passive

"bulunmak" ---> to be found.

Kayıp dağcı bu sabah bulundu [ The lost [mountain] climber has been found this morning]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some other dual voiced verbs are ;

tutulmak

sıkılmak

alınmak

kapılmak

yıkılmak

avlanmak

açılmak

Moha-ios liked this message
2.       Abla
3647 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 08:51 am

Do you mean

 

                Kapı açıldi

 

has two meanings: ´the door was opened (by someone)´ or ´the door opened (by itself)´ ?

3.       tunci
7149 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 10:19 am

 

Quoting Abla

Do you mean

 

                Kapı açıldi

 

has two meanings: ´the door was opened (by someone)´ or ´the door opened (by itself)´ ?

 

What I actually meant was ; 

açıılmak has two different meaning as follows ;

 

1. to set off on a journey on the water [sea,ocean]

2. passive voice of the verb which is "to be opened"

----------------------------------------------------------

1. Mehmet yarın tekneyle denize açılacak. [Mehmet will set off on the sea journey by boat tomorrow ]

2. Gizemli sandık bugün açılacak. --> [The mysterious box will be opened today.]

 

 

4.       si++
3785 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 10:28 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

What I actually meant was ; 

açıılmak has two different meaning as follows ;

 

1. to set off on a journey on the water [sea,ocean]

2. passive voice of the verb which is "to be opened"

----------------------------------------------------------

1. Mehmet yarın tekneyle denize açılacak. [Mehmet will set off on the sea journey by boat tomorrow ]

2. Gizemli sandık bugün açılacak. --> [The mysterious box will be opened today.]

 

 

 

Well,

 

This has reminded me an old thread where I had listed more than 2 meanings of "açılmak" (see post #7):

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_43614

 

tunci liked this message
5.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 10:31 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

What I actually meant was ; 

açıılmak has many different meanings, some examples are as follows ;

 

1. to set off on a journey on the water [sea,ocean]

2. passive voice of the verb which is "to be opened"

3. To tell one´s inner secrets to another party,

4. To overspend compared to one´s budget.

5. To relieve oneself from a state of emotional anxiety.

6. to regain consciousness, after falling into a state of coma.

7. (with reference to some dark color) to get lighter in color or complexion.

 

1. Mehmet yarın tekneyle denize açılacak. [Mehmet will set off on the sea journey by boat tomorrow ]

2. Gizemli sandık bugün açılacak. --> [The mysterious box will be opened today.]

 

 

 

 



Edited (4/11/2012) by AlphaF
Edited (4/11/2012) by AlphaF [adding more meanings]

tunci liked this message
6.       tunci
7149 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 10:34 am

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

 

 

 

 Thanks AlphaF for reminding us of more meanings of the verb.

7.       tunci
7149 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 10:49 am

 

Note : Please direct your attention to the point that the number of meanings is not the case here. It is about the verbs that can be used in both reflexive and passive voice at the same time.



Edited (4/11/2012) by tunci

8.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 10:57 am

 

Quoting tunci

 

Note : Please direct your attention to the point that the number of meanings is not the case here. It is about the verbs that can be used in both reflexive and passive voice at the same time.

 

That may well be your case. My case is slightly different.

I am trying to show that the statement "açıılmak has two different meaning as follows ;...." is not entirely adequate to describe the situation.

9.       tunci
7149 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 11:07 am

 

I respect your case and your involvement to make the situation more "adequate" AlphaF kardeş.

10.       Abla
3647 posts
 11 Apr 2012 Wed 01:41 pm

Thank you, tunci, si++, AlphaF. My thinking was trivial. Of course the meanings have gone a long way and changed into more abstract and specific. But it seems to me that there is still a passive family and reflexive family in the possible translations. Especially the reflexive base seems to gather very specialized meanings. Roughly, all AlphaF’s red additions as well as 4 and up from si++’s dictionary list look like they root back to the reflexive voice of the stem -.

 

In my opinion, when explaining verbs to learners, one should as much as possible begin from the verb stems and the possibilities there are in deriving them instead of introducing exhaustive lists of multiple meanings. Mr. John Guise has a point when he encourages students to learn the roots.

 

http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk/sinsylverblist.htm

 

When you know the roots by heart and know how to play with them you can draw conclusions about the meaning of verbs you have never seen in your life. It doesn´t make dictionaries useless, though.  -  Or natives.

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