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between this and that
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[1] 2
1.       PYalcin
4 posts
 30 Apr 2012 Mon 07:25 pm

i cant seen to understand what is between this and that.....maybe there isnt and english word for it.....can someone give me some more info....lutfen

2.       harp00n
3993 posts
 30 Apr 2012 Mon 08:55 pm

 

Quoting PYalcin

i cant seen to understand what is between this and that.....maybe there isnt and english word for it.....can someone give me some more info....lutfen

 

I think, you are right there isn´t an English word to understand between this and that, but if you want to help for Turkish we can do that.

This - Bu (near)

That - Şu (far)



Edited (4/30/2012) by harp00n

3.       si++
3785 posts
 01 May 2012 Tue 05:56 pm

 

Quoting PYalcin

i cant seen to understand what is between this and that.....maybe there isnt and english word for it.....can someone give me some more info....lutfen

 

Let´s illustrate a little:

 

Suppose we are sitting at a table. There are three objects (call them b,s,o) on the table.

 

I can reach and touch "b" but not "s" or "o".

You can reach and touch "s" but not "b" or "o".

 

So I would say:

bu "b" = this "b"

şu "s" = that "s"

o "o" = that "o"

 

So you would say:

bu "s" = this "s"

şu "b" = that "b"

o "o" = that "o"

 

substitute "b"=salt "s"=black pepper "o"=vinegar if you want, for example.

 

Abla liked this message
4.       Abla
3647 posts
 01 May 2012 Tue 08:10 pm

But what is the difference between şu and o in your model, si++? Both are out of reach. I have read about a reseach which says that it is about what the listener is looking at. Does it ring any bell to you?

5.       ikicihan
1127 posts
 02 May 2012 Wed 12:21 am

"o" is so far that you can show it with your forefinger pointing at it.

"bu" is so near that you can hold and show it.

"şu" is between "bu" and "o"

 

if you are talking to someone, "bu" can hear you, "o" cant hear you, "şu" may hear you.

6.       si++
3785 posts
 02 May 2012 Wed 08:47 am

 

Quoting Abla

But what is the difference between şu and o in your model, si++? Both are out of reach. I have read about a reseach which says that it is about what the listener is looking at. Does it ring any bell to you?

 

It was an example and is valid. As ikicihan says "şu" is between "bu" and "o".

 

Yes sometimes "şu" may be something you can reach but "bu is closer to you than "şu" in any case.

7.       Abla
3647 posts
 02 May 2012 Wed 09:11 am

But Küntay and Özyürek say the Turkish system of demostratives is more complicated than this. It is not only about distance like the English system but also about the listener´s attention. According to them şu is neutral what comes to distance. It rather refers to something the listener doesn´t look at.

 

I have written about it here

 

                       http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_51913_7 (post 69)

 

and there is also a link to the research.

 

I am not trying to insist with any of you natives here -  I will probably never learn the correct use of demonstratives anyway  -  but I find this double dimensioned system very interesting. I never heard about it in any other language. I wish someone would comment it.

8.       si++
3785 posts
 02 May 2012 Wed 09:22 am

 

Quoting Abla

But Küntay and Özyürek say the Turkish system of demostratives is more complicated than this. It is not only about distance like the English system but also about the listener´s attention. According to them şu is neutral what comes to distance. It rather refers to something the listener doesn´t look at.

 

 

"bu" is closer to you than "şu" in any case. This is the very basic thing we were taught in primary school.

 

That´s a general case when there are two objects near you ("bu" is closer to you than "şu"). If there is one object only near to you, you may use "bu" or "şu" when pointing at it, then again using "şu" would imply that the object is more distant to you than you would point at it by using "bu".

 

 

9.       si++
3785 posts
 02 May 2012 Wed 09:36 am

 

Quoting Abla

 

 

I have written about it here

 

                       http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_51913_7 (post 69)

 

As for thhe following quote from that link:

 

In conversation and written language, a good rule of thumb is that bu means ‘the one that has just been mentioned’ and şu means ‘the following’ (Lewis 1969.):

 

Bunları boşver.

Etkili bir dinleme için şunları yapın:…

 

 

Yes it´s a good description!

 

10.       Abla
3647 posts
 02 May 2012 Wed 06:03 pm

Quote:si++

Yes it´s a good description!

 

It´s a rule that never failed me. I mean I was never corrected when I followed it. When I refer behind my back I use bu.

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