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Durmak
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1.       cim
29 posts
 12 Jun 2012 Tue 06:06 pm

Durmak means to stop, but it also means to continue or be in a state. Could someone give some insiight into the contradictory durmadan or durma? It seems it could be to continue or stop. Also adding -dur (not dir) to a verb means to continue doing. I know that when I was in Turkey, people tend to roar right through a sign that says DUR, but I think that is another matter.

2.       turkishmaster
108 posts
 12 Jun 2012 Tue 06:19 pm

Durmak means to stop, but it also means to continue or be in a state. Could someone give some insiight into the contradictory durmadan or durma? It seems it could be to continue or stop. Also adding -dur (not dir) to a verb means to continue doing. I know that when I was in Turkey, people tend to roar right through a sign that says DUR, but I think that is another matter.

 

 

durmak   means   to stop

durma  ( negative form of imprerative verb - dont stop )

durma ( also it is noun form of the durmak (stoping)

dur! ( means imperative of wait! )

durmadan ( doing something without stoping )

 

-dır, -dir, -dur, -dür ( as a suffix) it has possibility and certainity meaning when you use it at the end of the sentences.

 

Şimdi Ankara´da yağmur yağıyordur. (it is perhaps raining in Ankara )

Ahmet çalışkan bir öğrenci. Şimdi ders çalışıyordur.Ahmet is a clever student. he is certainly studying now.

 

 

ulak liked this message
3.       cim
29 posts
 12 Jun 2012 Tue 06:56 pm

First, please ignore the -dir discussion and limit it to durmak.

Durmak appears to me to be more subtle than that. As further examples, söyleneDURMAK or söylendi durdu mean to keep on grumbling, not to stop grumbling. Durmak seems ambiguous like english inflammable, which should logically mean NOT flammable.

4.       Abla
3647 posts
 12 Jun 2012 Tue 07:28 pm

I think the meaning of continuing relates especially to the construction

 

                                   -ip durmak

 

tunci wrote about it somewhere...here it is, post 6:

 

                                    http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_52429.

 

What may also be confusing here is the status of -mA-:

 

Quote:turkishmaster

durma  ( negative form of imprerative verb - dont stop )

durma ( also it is noun form of the durmak (stoping)

dur! ( means imperative of wait! )

durmadan ( doing something without stoping )

 

That´s because the same couple of letters can stand either for negation or act as a verbal noun marking (infinitive).

 



Edited (6/12/2012) by Abla

5.       cim
29 posts
 13 Jun 2012 Wed 05:33 am

   Tunci´s example falls under the third definition in the Redhouse of "durmak=to continue."  Gülüp duruyor would simply mean "She is laughing, continuing". Why couldn´t it just as easily be "She is laughing, stopping," or "She is no longer laughing." Is this construction an idiom, and therefore has an understood meaning?   

   In my example above from Lewis: söylenEdurmak and söylenip durmak  both imply continuous action. It would seem this is an understood idiom.

   Another continuing example from Lewis is "Mektubu okumadan atti" which he translates as "He threw away the letter without reading (it)." It seems that the -dan here leads to a does/doesn´t ambiguity also. "from reading" could be either after or before reading. The ´point of reference´ implied by -dan is not clear to me. "from not read" would seem to be incorrect syntax.

   Obviously, I am having trouble with what is or isn´t. I would appreciate comments. Thank you.

6.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 13 Jun 2012 Wed 08:29 am

"Durmak" basically means to stop or to remain in a given state continiously with no change,

"Gülüp duruyor" implies that the subject remains in a state of continious laughing, with no change. Clear?

 

Any idea what "üstünde durmak" might mean ? to insist on something, to pay particular attention to something

 

"sözünde durmak" ? to keep one´s word

"arkasında durmak" ?  (literally and as an idiom) Literally. to stand behind something: Figuratively, to support something

"yerinde durmak" ? Literally to stop at the right place: Figuratively, to stop at the correct point (one more word, step or action could have been detrimental) 

"zamanında durmak" ? Literally to stop at the right moment: Figuratively, to stop at the correct time (one more word, step or action could have been detrimental)

"iyi durmak" or "kötü durmak" ? to look good (ex. Elbisesi üzerinde çok iyi duruyordu) and to look bad.

"karşı durmak" ? to oppose

"kayıtsız durmak" ? to look (appear) uninterested

 



Edited (6/13/2012) by AlphaF [added to the list]
Edited (6/14/2012) by AlphaF
Edited (6/14/2012) by AlphaF
Edited (6/14/2012) by AlphaF

7.       AlphaF
5677 posts
 13 Jun 2012 Wed 08:39 am

 

EVEN MORE CONFUSING    {#emotions_dlg.alcoholics}

 

Hızlı gidip durdu.                    He sped continiously.

Hızlı gidip, durdu.                    He sped, then stopped.

Abla liked this message
8.       Abla
3647 posts
 13 Jun 2012 Wed 09:02 am

Quote:cim

Why couldn´t it just as easily be...

 

This is an in-depth question.

 

Some language units can easily be understood as the sum of their addends. Basic, concrete meanings of noun cases, primary uses of verb tenses belong to this category. But in every language there are more abstract expressions whose meaning you can´t figure out only by means of addition. Call them idioms if you like.

 

-ip durmak ´continue´ is a phrase which you have to learn as a whole. The same way you may not find the concrete definition of ablative in -meden ´without doing´. There certainly are reasons for these uses but they are so far in the history of language it is no use for a learner to look for them. Just learn them.

MarioninTurkey liked this message
9.       ulak
173 posts
 13 Jun 2012 Wed 07:14 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

Any idea what "üstünde durmak" might mean ?- to  insist on something

 

"sözünde durmak" ?- keep his word

"arkasında durmak" ?  (literally and as an idiom)

"yerinde durmak" ?    

"zamanında durmak" ?

"iyi durmak" or "kötü durmak" ?

"karşı durmak" ?-  oppose

"kayıtsız durmak" ?

 

 

 Lütfen  CAN someone give the meanings of all this expressions ?? I have an idea but I might be wrong.( by example Yerinde durmak looks simple but in my language the same thing has a figurative sense:to be modest ,not exceed his duties...) 

10.       cim
29 posts
 14 Jun 2012 Thu 04:22 am

"üstünde durmak" to stay on top

"sözünde durmak"  to keep his word

"arkasında durmak"   to stay in back, to watch his back

"yerinde durmak" to be polite

"zamanında durmak"  hold to a schedule

"iyi durmak" or "kötü durmak" to remain good or bad

"karşı durmak" to continue opposing

"kayıtsız durmak" to remain indifferent

 

It would seem that saying "kayıtsız kalmak" would have been more 

reasonable to avoid the possibility of being "to stop being indifferent."

From AlphaF´s second post it would also seem that "kayıtsız, durmak" 

would be the way to say "to stop being indifferent."  If that is so, then

it would appear that a comma is important for meaning, much more

than in English where is usually, but not always, a way of improving the

flow of the sentence.

So "üstünde, durmak" would become "to stop on top of it," etc.

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