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History in making!! Peace at Last?
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| 20. |
24 Mar 2013 Sun 11:48 am |
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Hayâlî, an Ottoman poet of Greek origin, died in 1557 in Edirne.
Could it be that Nazım Hikmet refers to these lines when he four hundred years later writes
Dünyanın en tuhaf mahlukusun yani,
hani şu derya içre olup
deryayı bilmiyen balıktan da tuhaf ?
On the spot Abla.
I dont know if Nazim was refering to Hayali´s poem or not. But it seems very likely.
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| 21. |
24 Mar 2013 Sun 07:09 pm |
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Yes..
It is the fish and you still dont get it. You still dont understand what was it all about what it is about now.
It does not matter you dont like making peace.
The peace is coming to Turkey DESPITE YOU. The problem was always YOU (not in singular of course).
As I said, the next problem might/will ve the problem of Alevis.
But do not worry, we will solve it.
People ´screaming for Kurdish but not knowing Kurdish itself´?
That is not a concern of yours.
They can and so what?
You have no right to stop them.
Some rights come from being human being, that is called human rights. Asking for their own language is one of them. If, as a Turk, you thought you could give that right to them was the common mistake. Because you have no authority to decide if you can give people´s basic human rights or not.
But.. It was the fish. "Sazan"
Komik, fanatik ve sığ açıklamalar bunlar...
Ben, bu ülkede yaşıyorum. Barış, senden çok beni sevindirir. Benim yakın arkadaşlarım Kürt, komşularım Alevi. Bizim böyle bir sorunumuz yokken, birileri çıkıp bu ülkede sorun varmış gibi gösteriyor, sende bunlara çanak tutuyorsun. Evet, geçmişte oluk oluk kan akmış, ama bunu kimseye faydası olmamış. O günler orada kaldı. Sen, bu ülkede yaşamıyorsun, sadece dışarıdan seyrediyorsun olanları, bir şeyler yapıyormuş ya da yapmış gibi gösterme kendini. Bense bu ülkedeyim, gitmedim, buradayım ve ben yaşıyorum barışı, dostluğu, kardeşliği... Kimseye de düşman değilim üstelik. Bilmem anlatabildim mi ?
Kürtlerle ya da kürtçe ile ya da alevilerle benim (şahsım adına) bir sorunum olmadı bugüne kadar. Olmayan bir şeyi varmış gibi göstermek yanlış, hepsi bu... Dedim ya yaşadığın ülkede İrlanda´lı biri girebiliyor mu Avam kamarasına ? Ya da Başbakan olabilir mi ? Ama bizim Kürt Başbakanımız, Cumhurbaşkanımız oldu. Öldüğünde de bütün ülke hüngür hüngür ağladı. Ötesi var mı ..?
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| 22. |
24 Mar 2013 Sun 08:03 pm |
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Komik, fanatik ve sığ açıklamalar bunlar...
Ben, bu ülkede yaşıyorum. Barış, senden çok beni sevindirir. Benim yakın arkadaşlarım Kürt, komşularım Alevi. Bizim böyle bir sorunumuz yokken, birileri çıkıp bu ülkede sorun varmış gibi gösteriyor, sende bunlara çanak tutuyorsun. Evet, geçmişte oluk oluk kan akmış, ama bunu kimseye faydası olmamış. O günler orada kaldı. Sen, bu ülkede yaşamıyorsun, sadece dışarıdan seyrediyorsun olanları, bir şeyler yapıyormuş ya da yapmış gibi gösterme kendini. Bense bu ülkedeyim, gitmedim, buradayım ve ben yaşıyorum barışı, dostluğu, kardeşliği... Kimseye de düşman değilim üstelik. Bilmem anlatabildim mi ?
Kürtlerle ya da kürtçe ile ya da alevilerle benim (şahsım adına) bir sorunum olmadı bugüne kadar. Olmayan bir şeyi varmış gibi göstermek yanlış, hepsi bu... Dedim ya yaşadığın ülkede İrlanda´lı biri girebiliyor mu Avam kamarasına ? Ya da Başbakan olabilir mi ? Ama bizim Kürt Başbakanımız, Cumhurbaşkanımız oldu. Öldüğünde de bütün ülke hüngür hüngür ağladı. Ötesi var mı ..?
You seem stressed too much.. In Turkish ´gerildin sen´.
Of course, ´we never had any problems with Kurds; we were always brothers; our neighbours are Kurds; I have very close Kurdish friends´ etc..
These are quite cliche and empty words. An MP´s answer was very clear about these empty ´but we are bothers and very close friends of mine a Kurd´ words: "Kurds are disgusted with brotherhood words in a way that they want to vomit. All they want is equality"
We lost 70.000 people with the problem which according to you there never was!!
We lost all those years with fighting because ´some people believed there was not a problem´!! (then when I remind you the fish, you get cross!!)
Anyway you may say that there was not a problem. But hopefully it is over.
Just say that you support the peace now.
That will be enough.
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| 23. |
24 Mar 2013 Sun 08:29 pm |
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You seem stressed too much.. In Turkish ´gerildin sen´.
Of course, ´we never had any problems with Kurds; we were always brothers; our neighbours are Kurds; I have very close Kurdish friends´ etc..
These are quite cliche and empty words. An MP´s answer was very clear about these empty ´but we are bothers and very close friends of mine a Kurd´ words: "Kurds are disgusted with brotherhood words in a way that they want to vomit. All they want is equality"
We lost 70.000 people with the problem which according to you there never was!!
We lost all those years with fighting because ´some people believed there was not a problem´!! (then when I remind you the fish, you get cross!!)
Anyway you may say that there was not a problem. But hopefully it is over.
Just say that you support the peace now.
That will be enough.
Dedim ya sığsın diye, hakikaten öyleymişsin sen... Devam et... Bu arada; 1 karış derinlik beni geremez... 
That´s all...
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| 24. |
24 Mar 2013 Sun 09:12 pm |
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Dedim ya sığsın diye, hakikaten öyleymişsin sen... Devam et... Bu arada; 1 karış derinlik beni geremez...
That´s all...
Agree to disagree !!
Letting you go now!! Weigh your argument more carefully next time
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| 25. |
29 Mar 2013 Fri 03:48 pm |
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Daglarina bahar gelmis memleketimin - Ahmed Arif
dağlarına barış gelmiş memleketimin..
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| 26. |
29 Mar 2013 Fri 10:07 pm |
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Öcalan had committed every crime in the book to qualify him for the death penalty. He had killed, terrorized cities, trafficked narkotics, tortured people ; you name it.
Turkia was hot on his heels. It was becoming incerasingly difficult for Öcalan to get acceptance from any of the possible host countries.
The rumor is that CIA came into the picture, and delivered Öcalan to Turkish side, on one condition only.
THOU SHALT NOT KILL HIM.
Can anyone make an intelligent guess why CIA was so benevolent ?
tunci? suzanne 2013?
they didnt kill him because they knew his influence on the gang. if they killed him they would have to deal with the gang also and the "war of terror" would turn into "war of ethnicities" as it was being misportrayed.
i think they wanted to use him and thats exactly what they are doing right now.
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| 27. |
29 Mar 2013 Fri 10:20 pm |
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Yes..
It is the fish and you still dont get it. You still dont understand what was it all about what it is about now.
It does not matter you dont like making peace.
The peace is coming to Turkey DESPITE YOU. The problem was always YOU (not in singular of course).
As I said, the next problem might/will ve the problem of Alevis.
But do not worry, we will solve it.
People ´screaming for Kurdish but not knowing Kurdish itself´?
That is not a concern of yours.
They can and so what?
You have no right to stop them.
Some rights come from being human being, that is called human rights. Asking for their own language is one of them. If, as a Turk, you thought you could give that right to them was the common mistake. Because you have no authority to decide if you can give people´s basic human rights or not.
But.. It was the fish. "Sazan"
of course asking for the mohther tounge is a right, but the whole fish starts to stink when the strongest advoates of the kurdish mother tounge are the european countries like germany and holland, who are into serious assimilation politics against foreign ethnicities themselves and destroying the "foreigners" childrens mother tounge in their countries. that france who declared herself the knight of freedom literally kicked all of the gypsies out of her borders and are now trying to wipe out an ethnic group called tuaregs from mali. forgive me if i am skeptical to the "mother tounge" style agitations from these people.
another problem comes from the fact that kurds take up 8% of the population while 17% is made up of OTHER ethnic groups and they are also need to be given their mother tounge and whatever else rights if kurds are given these rights. but only kurds get it. gypsies are still being tormented. why? because kurds were misrepresnted by pkk who used guns and killed people. so what, does this mean you will get your rights in turkey only if you get some gang kill people in your name? this is the message that is unintentionally being given to that 17% other ethnicities. do you know what çerkez people are doing right now? theyre going around forming their own guild and start questioning if they should ask for their own autonomy also. what do you think will happen if every single ethnicity does this? what do you will happen if 75 turkish ethnicities also decide to own their own autonomy? will there be a turkey anymore? isnt this the whole goal of greece etc?
every logical person wants peace. even the most warrior one. so dont label everyone who criticizes the steps taken during this peace process as peace-haters who are disturbed by this. its not. actually all we want is the removal of every singe potential obstacle that could dispel the flow of this process.
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| 28. |
29 Mar 2013 Fri 11:09 pm |
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of course asking for the mohther tounge is a right, but the whole fish starts to stink when the strongest advoates of the kurdish mother tounge are the european countries like germany and holland, who are into serious assimilation politics against foreign ethnicities themselves and destroying the "foreigners" childrens mother tounge in their countries. that france who declared herself the knight of freedom literally kicked all of the gypsies out of her borders and are now trying to wipe out an ethnic group called tuaregs from mali. forgive me if i am skeptical to the "mother tounge" style agitations from these people.
another problem comes from the fact that kurds take up 8% of the population while 17% is made up of OTHER ethnic groups and they are also need to be given their mother tounge and whatever else rights if kurds are given these rights. but only kurds get it. gypsies are still being tormented. why? because kurds were misrepresnted by pkk who used guns and killed people. so what, does this mean you will get your rights in turkey only if you get some gang kill people in your name? this is the message that is unintentionally being given to that 17% other ethnicities. do you know what çerkez people are doing right now? theyre going around forming their own guild and start questioning if they should ask for their own autonomy also. what do you think will happen if every single ethnicity does this? what do you will happen if 75 turkish ethnicities also decide to own their own autonomy? will there be a turkey anymore? isnt this the whole goal of greece etc?
every logical person wants peace. even the most warrior one. so dont label everyone who criticizes the steps taken during this peace process as peace-haters who are disturbed by this. its not. actually all we want is the removal of every singe potential obstacle that could dispel the flow of this process.
I dont think Holland cares Kurds mother tongue. I think this is really distorted view of the army generals. They wanted people to believe that Kurds asking for their own languge was part of the western plan to divide Turkey. West would rather prefer an undivided Turkey. All those pipe lines built through Turkey and many being built is the proof of that.
Kurds are around 20% of Turkish population. That is mainly the reason why the assimilation of Kurds failed. Because of their number. Kurds are not asking for autonomy as far as I can see. They want to live in with us without changing the borders of Turkey. Other ethnicities? well They can ask their culture to be preserved too. Or education in their own language? why not? France has that, UK has that. In the UK, even alevism is being tought as a subject. Greece´s goal? I am not sure on that. They are on a different scale. Only Istanbul´s economy is bigger than Greece+Bulgaria.
I hope you are right to say that peace is everybody´s desire. But I still dont have any sympathy for the ideas such as ´wishing all these things fail´ because it is not ending the way they wanted it to end.
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| 29. |
30 Mar 2013 Sat 01:16 am |
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Quoting thehandsom
Kurds are around 20% of Turkish population.
you know wrong
2007 yılında Milliyet Gazetesi´nin Konda Araştırma Şirketine yaptırdığı ve şirketin denekler ile tüm Türkiye çapında 47958 kişiyle evlerinde yüz yüze yaptığı bir anket neticesinde Türkiye´nin etnik yapısı deneklerin kendilerini tanımlamalarına göre şu şekilde ortaya çıkmıştır:[5]
Kürt %8,61
http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C3%BCrkiye%27de_ya%C5%9Fayan_etnik_gruplar
do not believe into everything that writes in cia world factbook propaganda and kurdish nationalists. they multiply the number of zazas by two and add that to the number.
That is mainly the reason why the assimilation of Kurds failed. Because of their number.
btw what assimilation are you talking about? istanbul is the biggest kurdish city in the world. there is no attempt for assimilation in turkey. our culture doesnt include such perspectives.
KONSENSUS’un
Habertürk için yaptığı “Türkiye Gündemi, Aralık 2011-2012’ye Girerken Türkiye Görünümü” başlıklı araştırmanın üçüncü ve son bölümünde Kasım 2009-Aralık 2011 tarihleri arasında yapılan 17 anketten derlenen çarpıcı sonuçlar yer alıyor. “TÜRKİYE’deki Kürt kökenli vatandaşlara pozitif veya negatif ayrımcılık yapılıyor mu?’’ sorusuna ankete katılanların yüzde 70.7’si, “Hayır ayrımcılık yapılmıyor’’ dedi. “Ayrımcılık yapılıyor’’ diyenlerin oranı yüzde 15.7’de kaldı. “Pozitif ayrımcılık yapılıyor’’ diyenlerin oranı ise yüzde 13.6 çıktı.
you are wrong again. they stopped supporting them at 2011 but until than they were actively helping them.
I dont think Holland cares Kurds mother tongue.
Training camps
There are also training camps in other countries: the organization´s training camp near Eindhoven in the Netherlands, was well-hidden in the woods
A few weeks later Roj TV began transmissions from Denmark. It has also been argued that the Netherlands and Belgium have supported the PKK by allowing its training camps to function in their respective territories. On November 22, 1998, Hanover´s criminal police reported that three children had been trained by the PKK for guerrilla warfare in camps in the Netherlands and Belgium. [90]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers%27_Party
I think this is really distorted view of the army generals. They wanted people to believe that Kurds asking for their own languge was part of the western plan to divide Turkey.
you are coming with an argument against my facts of european countries assimilative
language politics. please support a counter fact about it.
West would rather prefer an undivided Turkey. All those pipe lines built through Turkey and many being built is the proof of that.
which west? euorpes and americas policis are not in the same direction about turkey. and either way, they would rather have their own bases all over middle east rather than strong large countries. any politician can tell you this. this is the whole reason behind iraq
invasion, iran oppression and pkking turkey. i thought this was a well known fact.
Kurds are not asking for autonomy as far as I can see.
uh i dont believe that you are oblivious to the kurdistan concept.
Or education in their own language? why not? France has that, UK has that.
i dont think that france or uk having this somehow automaticaly means that every country in the world should has it also. those two countries are the worlds two of the biggest assholes.
but i also think that there should be mother-tounge education and right to make a court defense with it in turkey. just not on the dictation of other countries.
Only Istanbul´s economy is bigger than Greece+Bulgaria.
we do have more cash at the moment. greeces whole foreign policy is dominated by turkey though.
I hope you are right to say that peace is everybody´s desire. But I still dont have any sympathy for the ideas such as ´wishing all these things fail´ because it is not ending the way they wanted it to end.
i didnt understand this but im just tired of seeing that apos face all the time.
Edited (3/30/2013) by burakk
Edited (3/30/2013) by burakk
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| 30. |
30 Mar 2013 Sat 01:23 am |
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sorry i dont know why im sudenly here and writing whole pages about this one subject. and with very bad english too. i will leave my discussion here as it is. you can write a reply if you want.
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