Welcome
Login:   Pass:     Register - Forgot Password - Resend Activation

Turkish Class Forums / Language

Language

Add reply to this discussion
Possessive exceptions
(13 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
1.       denizli
961 posts
 28 Feb 2014 Fri 03:37 am

I know English is full of exceptions but I always was taught that Turkish is a consistent language.

Then I discovered this:

http://www.turkishtools.tourkika.com/possession/

Are there more examples of irregular Possessive forms. I came across 

ömür  (
ömrüm).

2.       tunci
7149 posts
 28 Feb 2014 Fri 02:15 pm

 

Quoting denizli

I know English is full of exceptions but I always was taught that Turkish is a consistent language.

Then I discovered this:

http://www.turkishtools.tourkika.com/possession/

Are there more examples of irregular Possessive forms. I came across 

ömür  (
ömrüm).

 

 

Some words [especially loanwords ] lose their final vowel (apocopate) when a suffix which itself begins with a vowel is added to the noun.


Example:

izin - leave, time off - becomes izn-im [NOT izin-im]- my leave 

in the example, the final vowel of the noun root is dropped when adding a suffix which begins in a vowel.

 

-fikir

fikrimiz - our idea


- keyif
keyfi - his/her joy


ul
oğlum - my son


boyun
boynu - his neck


nakil
nakli - his transport


ahit
ahdi - his promise 


* In the last two examples above that the final consonant -t has changed into its soft form -d.

 

kayıp  - loss

kaybı - his loss -

* in the example above, -p  softens into  -b when it takes possesive suffix.

 

Moha-ios, elenagabriela and gokuyum liked this message
3.       tunci
7149 posts
 28 Feb 2014 Fri 02:24 pm

 

Below, some more examples :


ız / ağzı

alın / alnı

bağır / bağrım 

beniz / benzi

beyin / beynimiz

boyun / boynu 

böğür / böğrüm 

burun / burnu 

geniz / genzi

göğüs / göğsün

gönül / gönlünüz

karın / karnı 

ul / oğlu

 



Edited (2/28/2014) by tunci

Moha-ios, elenagabriela and gokuyum liked this message
4.       Khaur
13 posts
 28 Feb 2014 Fri 02:54 pm

I guess that comes from some form of euphonic contraction, that took over to the point it´s not correct anymore not to do it, similarly to what happens in French and Italian with the definite article: la+vowel becomes , or in English with a/an.


Is there any kind of pattern to know which words drop their vowel, or is it something we have to learn along with the words? I notice all your examples are 2-syllable words, and the last vowel is i/ı/ü/u.



Edited (2/28/2014) by Khaur
Edited (2/28/2014) by Khaur

5.       denizli
961 posts
 01 Mar 2014 Sat 12:07 am

6.       tunci
7149 posts
 01 Mar 2014 Sat 02:49 pm

 

Quoting Khaur

I guess that comes from some form of euphonic contraction, that took over to the point it´s not correct anymore not to do it, similarly to what happens in French and Italian with the definite article: la+vowel becomes , or in English with a/an.


Is there any kind of pattern to know which words drop their vowel, or is it something we have to learn along with the words? I notice all your examples are 2-syllable words, and the last vowel is i/ı/ü/u.

 

 

  You have to learn those words, however there are some indications that gives us a clue about this kind of vowel dropping ;


* Some organ names with two syllables, when they take suffix starting with a vowel, their middle [second] sound drops.

 

burun ---> burun + um  ----> burnum

boyun ---> boyun + u   ----> boynu

ağız   ---> ağız + ımız  ----> ağzımız

alın    ---> alın + ın -----> alnın

karın  ---> karın + ım ----> karnım

beyin ---> beyin + i   ----> beyni

 

* When some two syllable words having wide vowels [a,e ,o ,ö] in their first syllable and narrow vowels  [ı ,i, u ,ü ] in their second syllable , take suffix starting with a vowel, the middle sound drops.

 

alın    ---> alın  + ı  ----> alnı

resim ----> resim + im ---> resmim

bağır  ---> bağır +  ım ---> bağrım

gönül ----> gönül  + üm ---> gönlüm

Moha-ios liked this message
7.       Mushin
68 posts
 02 Mar 2014 Sun 02:38 pm

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

Some words [especially loanwords ] lose their final vowel (apocopate) when a suffix which itself begins with a vowel is added to the noun.


 

So it should NOT be called "possessive exceptions". It can be called a phonetic development.

 

The possesive exceptions I know of are:

 

su -> su-yum, su-yun, su-yu, etc.

ne -> ne-yim, ne-yin, ne-yi, etc

şu -> şu-yum, şu-yun, şu-yu, etc.

bu -> bu-yum, bu-yun, bu-yu, etc.

...

 

Normally possessive suffixes are of dropping kind (after a vowel -m, -n, -si, -miz, -niz, -leri).

 

pusu -> pusu-m, pusu-n, pusu-su, etc.

anne -> anne-m, anne-n, anne-si, etc.

komşu -> komşu-m, komşu-n, komşu-su, etc.

tabu -> tabu-m, tabu-n, tabu-su, etc.

...

 



Edited (3/2/2014) by Mushin

mehmet111 liked this message
8.       denizli
961 posts
 04 Mar 2014 Tue 11:02 pm

9.       denizli
961 posts
 04 Mar 2014 Tue 11:03 pm

 

Quoting Mushin

 

Quoting tunci

 

 

Some words [especially loanwords ] lose their final vowel (apocopate) when a suffix which itself begins with a vowel is added to the noun.


 

So it should NOT be called "possessive exceptions". It can be called a phonetic development.

 

The possesive exceptions I know of are:

 

su -> su-yum, su-yun, su-yu, etc.

ne -> ne-yim, ne-yin, ne-yi, etc

şu -> şu-yum, şu-yun, şu-yu, etc.

bu -> bu-yum, bu-yun, bu-yu, etc.

...

 

Normally possessive suffixes are of dropping kind (after a vowel -m, -n, -si, -miz, -niz, -leri).

 

pusu -> pusu-m, pusu-n, pusu-su, etc.

anne -> anne-m, anne-n, anne-si, etc.

komşu -> komşu-m, komşu-n, komşu-su, etc.

tabu -> tabu-m, tabu-n, tabu-su, etc.

...

 

 

If this were English, everyone would be calling these excpetions.

10.       tomac
975 posts
 04 Mar 2014 Tue 11:26 pm

 

Quoting denizli

If this were English, everyone would be calling these excpetions.

 

If these were Polish, they wouldn´t be unusual enough to call them exceptions



Edited (3/4/2014) by tomac
Edited (3/4/2014) by tomac
Edited (3/4/2014) by tomac

(13 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
Add reply to this discussion




Turkish Dictionary
Turkish Chat
Open mini chat
New in Forums
24 HOUR FLASH SALE for learning Turkish e-...
qdemir: ...
Grammar Textbook
qdemir: ...
E-T: I see you have done this before?
harp00n: Bunu ... daha önce de ... Bu konuda iyi olduğun ç...
E-T: It´s one of the things on my bu...
denizli: hmmm I ... think there are suffixes ... nor ... But I know wha...
T-E
og2009: ...
T-E
og2009: ...
coronavirus
og2009: ...
OUR FRIENDS
og2009: ...
Coronavirus
harp00n: ...
TLC servers hacked, all user emails & pass...
alerque: This sites entire user database seems to have been hacked, I´m ...
T-E
og2009: ...
Individually Tailored Private Turkish Less...
sumrutemur: Do you want to learn Turkish? Do you want to improve your speaking, wr...
Random Pictures of Turkey
Add thumbnails like this to your site
Most liked