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Armenians/Policy change?
(18 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
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10.       si++
3785 posts
 27 Apr 2014 Sun 09:08 am

Now what about Armanians did to Muslims?

 

I killed Muslims by every means possible. Yet it is
  sometimes a pity to waste bullets for this. The best
  way is to gather all of these dogs and throw them into 
  wells and then fill the wells with big and heavy stones,
  as I did. I gathered all of the women, men and children,
  threw big stones down on top of them. They must never live
  on this earth.

A. Lalayan, Revolutsionniy Vostok (Revolutionary East)
             No: 2-3, Moscow, 1936.
            -One of the architects of the Armenian genocide
             of Muslim people

*

Foreword:

For example, we were camped one night in a half-ruined Tartar
 mosque, the most habitable building of a destroyed village, near
 the border of Persia and Russian Armenia. During the course of
 evening I asked Ohanus if he could tell me anything of the history
 of the village and the cause of its destruction. In his matter of
 fact way he replied, Yes, I assisted in its sack and destruction,
 and witnessed the slaying of those whose bones you saw to-day
 scattered among its ruins.

p. 218 (first and second paragraphs)

We Armenians did not spare the Muslims. If persisted in, the
 slaughtering of Tartars, the looting, and the rape and massacre
 of the helpless become commonplace actions expected and accepted
 as a matter of course.

 I have been on the scenes of massacres where the dead lay on the
 ground, in numbers, like the fallen leaves in a forest. Muslims
 had been as helpless and as defenseless as sheep. They had not died
 as soldiers die in the heat of battle, fired with ardor and courage,
 with weapons in their hands, and exchanging blow for blow. They had
 died as the helpless must, with their hearts and brains bursting
 with horror worse than death itself.

p. 15 (second paragraph)

The Tartars [Muslims] were, for the most part, poor. Some of them
 lived in villages and cultivated small farms; many of them continued
 in the way of life of their nomadic forefathers. They drove their
 flocks and herds from valley to valley, from plain to mountain, and
 from mountain to plain, following the pasturage as it changed with
 the seasons. They ranged from the salt desert shores of the Caspian
 Sea far into the mighty Caucasus Mountains. Even the village Tartars
 are a primitive people, only semicivilized.

 I can see now that we Armenians frankly despised the Tartars, and,
 while holding a disproportionate share of the wealth of the country,
 regarded and treated them as inferiors.


p. 20 (second paragraph)

Our men armed themselves, gathered together and advanced on the
 Tartar section of the village. There were no lights in the houses
 and the doors were barred, for the Tartars suspected what as to
 happen and were in great fear. Our men hammered on the doors, but
 got no response; whereupon they smashed in the doors and began a
 carnage that continued until the last Tartar was slain. Throughout
 the hideous night, I cowered at home in terror, unable to shut my
 ears to the piercing screams of the helpless victims and the loud
 shouts of our men. By morning the work was finished.

p. 109 (second paragraph).

The method of execution was for an Armenian government ´mauserist´
 to walk up behind the condemned Muslim in his home or on the street,
 place a pistol to the back of his head and blow out his brains.
 This simple way of getting rid of those who were undesirable in
 the view of the Armenian government and soon became a common way
 of paying debts.


p. 202 (first and second paragraphs)

We closed the roads and mountain passes that might serve as
 ways of escape for the Tartars and then proceeded in the work
 of extermination. Our troops surrounded village after village.
 Little resistance was offered. Our artillery knocked the huts
 into heaps of stone and dust and when the villages became untenable
 and inhabitants fled from them into fields, bullets and bayonets
 completed the work. Some of the Tartars escaped of course. They
 found refuge in the mountains or succeeded in crossing the border
 into Turkey. The rest were killed. And so it is that the whole
 length of the borderland of Russian Armenia from Nakhitchevan to
 Akhalkalaki from the hot plains of Ararat to the cold mountain
 plateau of the North were dotted with mute mournful ruins of
 Tartar villages. They are quiet now, those villages, except for
 howling of wolves and jackals that visit them to paw over the
 scattered bones of the dead.


 p. 203 (second paragraph)

One evening I passed through what had been a Tartar village. Among
 the ruins a fire was burning. I went to the fire and saw seated about
 it a group of soldiers. Among them were two Tartar girls, mere children.
 The girls were crouched on the ground, crying softly with suppressed
 sobs. Lying scattered over the ground were broken household utensils
 and other furnishings of Tartar peasant homes. There were also bodies
 of the Muslim dead.

p. 204 (first paragraph)

I was soon asleep. In the night I was awakened by the persistent crying
 of a child. I arose and went to investigate. A full moon enabled me to
 make my way about and revealed to me all the wreck and litter of the
 tragedy that had been enacted. Guided by the child´s crying, I entered
 the yard of a house, which I judged from its appearance must have been
 the home of a Muslim family. There in a corner of the yard I found a
 women dead. Her throat had been cut. Lying on her breast was a small
 child, a girl about a year old.

Leonard Ramsden Hartill, Men Are Like That The Bobbs-Merrill
                           Company, Indianapolis (1926).
Memoirs of an Armenian officer who participated in the Armenian
 genocide of Muslim people

 

AzerbayCan61 liked this message
11.       burakk
309 posts
 27 Apr 2014 Sun 08:54 pm

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I think you believe all the lies told you by the state!!

I dont think you can hide the truth anymore..

But what is the truth?

The truth is that there was a crime in 1915. This crime was an enormous crime in epic proportion and commited by a few murderer.

This truth slaps you on the face as soon as you get out of Turkey.

People wont believe Turkish  opinions. Because Turkey is unable to give logical answers about this.

The question is always out there : if you are telling the truth then what happened to the Armenians?

What you are trying to explain up there is that you are ACCEPTING what happened to Armenians. You are trying to say that ´but they deserved it´.

No one deserves that.

But I dont get Why people support a few murderers?

....

You need to read..

You need to read a lot..(start with the PM´s condolonces)

http://www.taraf.com.tr/yazilar/hayko-bagdat/basbakanin-taziyesi/29563/

http://www.taraf.com.tr/yazilar/mucahit-bilici/ermeni-soykirimi-ve-musluman-milliyetciligi/29566/

http://www.taraf.com.tr/yazilar/murat-belge/taziye/29570/

http://www.taraf.com.tr/yazilar/taner-akcam/heyecanlandirmadi-cunku-biz-cok-degistik/29560/

http://serbestiyet.com/buyuk-bir-adim-tarihi-bir-donum-noktasi/

http://serbestiyet.com/24-nisan-1915te-ne-mi-oldu/

http://serbestiyet.com/1915-ermenilerle-helallesme/

http://serbestiyet.com/erdoganin-1915-taziyesi/

http://t24.com.tr/haber/bir-valinin-1915-tanikligi-ellerimle-tirnaklarimla-tutabildigimi-kurtardim/256930

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Instead of sided internet journals why don´t you send me some solid and damning proof? I read those links and none of them give any citation to any of their claims.

 

I have to add this:

 

"This truth slaps you on the face as soon as you get out of Turkey."

 

Maybe you just haven´t been to the right countries? Nobody believes these imperialist crap in Malaysia, Thailand, Hungary, Japan, Egypt etc. Oh wait those aren´t the right countries for you. For people like you only france england vs exists and whatever they say it´s the "glboal thought" for you.

 

"What you are trying to explain up there is that you are ACCEPTING what happened to Armenians. You are trying to say that ´but they deserved it´."

 

Nobody deserves to be killed. My ancestors in Çanakkale didn´t deserve to get hit from behind by the Armenian gangs. Millions of Muslim Turks didn´t deserve to get killed in Balkans and Causcaus. My grandmother didn´t deserve to get chased to her house door in Istanbul by the Armenian gangsters when british invaded it in WW1. 5 million Ottoman civilians didn´t deserve to get murdered. What ignites my anger is not some vauge political historical fact that´s not even a fact. It´s the ignoring the death of everyone else and making it look like only Armenians died.

 

It belongs to this idea that says "Muslims aren´t human. Only Christians are."

 

Even worse, using this lie to cover up Khojali and shitloads of other murders all over the world done by Armenians.



Edited (4/27/2014) by burakk
Edited (4/27/2014) by burakk
Edited (4/27/2014) by burakk

harp00n liked this message
12.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 27 Apr 2014 Sun 11:16 pm

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

Instead of sided internet journals why don´t you send me some solid and damning proof? I read those links and none of them give any citation to any of their claims.

 

I have to add this:

 

"This truth slaps you on the face as soon as you get out of Turkey."

 

Maybe you just haven´t been to the right countries? Nobody believes these imperialist crap in Malaysia, Thailand, Hungary, Japan, Egypt etc. Oh wait those aren´t the right countries for you. For people like you only france england vs exists and whatever they say it´s the "glboal thought" for you.

 

"What you are trying to explain up there is that you are ACCEPTING what happened to Armenians. You are trying to say that ´but they deserved it´."

 

Nobody deserves to be killed. My ancestors in Çanakkale didn´t deserve to get hit from behind by the Armenian gangs. Millions of Muslim Turks didn´t deserve to get killed in Balkans and Causcaus. My grandmother didn´t deserve to get chased to her house door in Istanbul by the Armenian gangsters when british invaded it in WW1. 5 million Ottoman civilians didn´t deserve to get murdered. What ignites my anger is not some vauge political historical fact that´s not even a fact. It´s the ignoring the death of everyone else and making it look like only Armenians died.

 

It belongs to this idea that says "Muslims aren´t human. Only Christians are."

 

Even worse, using this lie to cover up Khojali and shitloads of other murders all over the world done by Armenians.

 

I doubt that you have read those articles (You somehow are associating Canakkale with Armenians.. Infact one of the articles awas writing that 24 April was the date Armenian intellects were picked up from their homes and got killed. -bear in mind that they were not tried, found guilty and executed. They were simply killed in an eastern-perfidious way: telling their familes that they have been relocated but they got killed on the road. 24 April 1915 was also the time when British started bombing Canakkale.. So no Armenians hit anybody behind at Canakkale. Two incidents are not related)

They are not sided online journals.. They are Turkish intellects and writing in papers. Many of them are professors who are NOT paid by the states!! Those people enlightened many of us so far. Taner Akcam/Murat Belge/Halil Berktay etc are leading free thinkers of Turkey. They are able to talk about it right now after long years of ban and threats!! You want  a citation? Like what? are you expecting them to show a letter from Ittihat ve terakki saying that ´actually this is a genocide´?

We are not talking about France and a few other countries here.. WE are talking about much more biger audiance. In fact, the person who wrote the definition of genocide, showed interest into this subject after ww1, after Talat was assasinated. He had Armenians in his mind when he wrote the definition. 

 

Armenians and Canakkale were not related.. Muslims did not get killed by Armenians in Balkans. Ethnic clensing was done by Greeks/Bulgarians/Sirbs. But not Armenians in Balkans. I dont know any serious incident in Istanbul after British invasion after WW1 done by Armenians against muslims. We all lost our ralatives during ww1. Almost every family lost some people including mine.

 

But none of above is a good reason to force an entire nation to a forced relocation with deadly consequences. Infact the archives show us, Ittihat ve Terakki leaders knew what they were doing and what was happening to the Armenians on the road. The entire event was planned that way. Unfortunatelly that entire event happened in our soils, ashamed all of us and that is the reason it is not a problem of Armenia. It is OUR problem we have to face.

Read more please

http://serbestiyet.com/meaningful-world-soykirim-panelinde-1-soyleyemediklerim-1915te-ne-oldu/

http://serbestiyet.com/meaningful-world-soykirim-panelinde2-soylediklerim-inkar-inadi-nereden-kaynaklaniyor/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Edited (4/28/2014) by thehandsom

13.       AzerbayCan61
44 posts
 28 Apr 2014 Mon 12:10 am

 

Quoting thehandsom

 

 

I doubt that you have read those articles (You somehow are associating Canakkale with Armenians.. Infact one of the articles awas writing that 24 April was the date Armenian intellects were picked up from their homes and got killed. -bear in mind that they were not tried, found guilty and executed. They were simply killed in an eastern-perfidious way: telling their familes that they are relocated but they got killed on the road. 24 April 1915 was also the time when British started bombing canakkale.. So no Armenians hit anybody at Canakkale. They are not related)

They are not sided online journals.. They are Turkish intellects and writing in papers. Many of them are professors who are NOT paid by the states!! Those people enlightened many of us so far. Taner Akcam/Murat Belge/Halil Berktay etc are leading free thinkers of Turkey. They are able to talk about it right now after long years of ban and threats!! You want  a citation? Like what? are you expecting them to show a letter from Ittihat ve terakki saying that ´actually this is a genocide´?

We are not talking about France and a few other countries here.. WE are talking about much more biger audiance. In fact, the guy who wrote the definition of genocide, showed interest into this subject after ww1, after Talat was assasinated. He had Armenians in his mind when he wrote the definition. 

 

Armenians and Canakkale was not related.. Muslims did not get killed by Armenians in Balkans. Ethnic clensing was done by greeks/bulgarians/sirbs. But not Armenians. I dont know any serious incident in Istanbul after British invasion after WW1 done by Armenians against muslims. We all lost our ralatives during ww1. Almost every family lost some people including mine.

 

But none of above is a good reason to force an entire nation to a forced relocation with deadly consequences. Infact the archives show us, Ittihat ve Terakki leaders knew what they were doing and what they were happening them on the road. The entire event was planned that way. Unfortunatelly that entire event happened in our soils, ashamed all of us and that is the reason it is not a problem of Armenia. It is OUR problem we have to face.

Read more please

http://serbestiyet.com/meaningful-world-soykirim-panelinde-1-soyleyemediklerim-1915te-ne-oldu/

http://serbestiyet.com/meaningful-world-soykirim-panelinde2-soylediklerim-inkar-inadi-nereden-kaynaklaniyor/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

{#emotions_dlg.pinokkio}əsl dəvəquşu sənsən!!! niyə xocalı soyqırımı və 1 milyon köçə məcbur edilən azərbaycanlılar üçün danishmiyirsan ?

 

si++ liked this message
14.       burakk
309 posts
 28 Apr 2014 Mon 02:04 am

 

So no Armenians hit anybody at Canakkale. They are not related)

 

 

 

 

Fransız askeri makamlarının 22 Eylül 1915 tarihinde yayımladıkları tebliğde de Musa Dağı’nda Temmuz sonundan beri ayaklanma hâlinde olan Ermenilerin cephane ve yiyeceklerinin tükenmesinden dolayı dayanma güçlerinin kalmadığı, Fransız kruvazörlerinin buradan 5000 civarında Ermeni’yi alarak Port Said’e taşıdıkları bilgisini verdi41. Halep Konsolosu Dandini, 25 Ekim 1915 tarihli raporunda Cemal Paşa’ya paralel bilgiler vermekteydi. Buna göre Musa Dağı’nda ayaklanan Ermenilerin aileleriyle birlikte İngiliz gemilerine binerek kaçtıklarını, kadın ve çocukların Kıbrıs’a gittiklerini, 6000 civarında erkeğinse İtilaf Devletleri adına savaşmak üzere Çanakkale Boğazı’na gittiğini bildirdi

 

kaynakça: 42 Ohandjanian, Österreich-Armenien Faksimilesammlung, no. 1105; HA PA XII 463 Z.15/P, s.4798–4800’den Avusturya Macaristan ve Ermeni, cilt VI C.

 

Ermeniler, şanlı Rus Ordusu saflarına girmek için aceleyle tüm ülkelerden, Rus Ordusuna hizmet etmek için geldiler... Bayraklarımızı serbestçe Çanakkale ve Boğaz içinde sallayalım, buranın halkları Ermeni olacaktır. Haydi yeni bir yaşam için diriliş ve Türkiye´de İsa´ya inanan Ermeni halkı...

Nicholas II of Russia
kaynakça:  Shaw 1977, pp. 314-315

Dosya:Staff of armenian volunteers 1914.png
.
.
.
I will come back with more sources and reply your other message later when I have time.
Also I recommend you read some other independent authors as well (of which I know, you will make the classical demogogy of "your author is false mine is true" subjectivity)


Edited (4/28/2014) by burakk
Edited (4/28/2014) by burakk

harp00n liked this message
15.       si++
3785 posts
 28 Apr 2014 Mon 09:26 am

 

Quoting AzerbayCan61

 

{#emotions_dlg.pinokkio}əsl dəvəquşu sənsən!!! niyə xocalı soyqırımı və 1 milyon köçə məcbur edilən azərbaycanlılar üçün danishmiyirsan ?

 

 

Doğru demişsin ama sen bu zatı pek iyi bilmezsin. Kendisi Ermenilerin hizmetkarı olarak buradadır. Devamlı olarak Türklerin Ermenilere yaptığı zulümden dem vurur ama aksini hiç söz etmez. Özü kabul etmese bile özü bir Ermeni ola biler.

harp00n liked this message
16.       AzerbayCan61
44 posts
 28 Apr 2014 Mon 10:36 am

 

No comments {#emotions_dlg.lol_fast}

17.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 03 May 2014 Sat 02:32 pm

The power of the Ottoman empire declined continuously in the 19th century. The loss of the Balkan provinces was a striking defeat which resulted in mass atrocities, expulsion and the deportation of Ottoman Muslims. A series of ethnic cleansings in the Balkans pushed millions eastward, transforming the demographic structure of Anatolia and leading to the destabilisation and deterioration of communal relations there as well. Approximately 5 million Ottoman citizens were driven away from their ancestral homes in the Balkans, the Caucasus and Anatolia. While much of western history tells of the suffering of the dispossessed and dead Ottoman Christians, the colossal sufferings of Ottoman Muslims remains largely unknown outside of Turkey.

It is an undeniable fact that the Armenians suffered greatly in the same period. The consequences of the relocation of the large part of the Armenian community are unacceptable and inhuman.
...
Offering condolences to the descendants of Ottoman Armenians with compassion and respect is a duty of humanity. An almost century-long confrontation has proved that we cannot solve the problem unless we start listening to and understanding each other. We must also learn to respect, without comparing sufferings and without categorising them.
..

Source: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/02/turks-armenians-erdogan-condolences-1915-armenian-massacre

---------------

So no more ´but we did not do anything; they are all lies´ type of comments..

 

 

18.       si++
3785 posts
 04 May 2014 Sun 12:07 pm

We lived in peace with them for centuries. That might have been still be the case. Nothing happens without a reason. They drew the first blood. They first did something and we reacted. They started it all first.

 

So they should face with what they themselves did wrong in the first place.

 

Armenians are brainwashed and taught to hate Turks starting from their childhood. Now that is wrong. I don´t like somebody hating because I am a Turk.

 

And what about offering condolences to those killed by them (Both sides suffered then). At least Turks do that, don´t they? If it is about humanity, where is their humanity?

 

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