I'd like to say that yes being homosexual is not seen as a right or as a part of freedom in Turkey and I'm sure not only in Turkey. It's something to be embrassed to have a gay son, or many men would be disturbed to have a gay friend. But maybe we need time to have them in our family or in our close surrounding proudly not feeling that it's the worst thing that could happen. But I've to say that we do have toleration, it's not that bad. I can give you tens of obviously homosexual turkish men that are famous and people really do like them, in turkish music indusrty there're so many homosexuals and even tough sometimes people tease them, they don't really disrespect or treat them badly. Lindy said that Tarkan was lucky to be able to escape from the country, no it's definitely wrong. He doesn't need to escape from the turkish people, because he's the most loved singer in Turkey, and really maybe he's the only singer that have so many male fans, there have been so many paparazzi gossips about his homosexuality, but people really don't give any f..k to his sexual preference actually, noone cares if he's a gay or not. I think turkish people do have a respect to them when they do good things, but yes in the street we're not very willing to give them a lot of opportunities, and we're not ready for a gay son yet. So, there're a lot of feminen dressed homosexuals that sell themselves to men to earn money, and they also disturb me because they behave abnormally, not like one of us. But there're also a lot of unknown male-looking gay people that exist in out society, but we don't notice them. As long as they don't do ugly things and behave as a simple person whose only difference is sleeping with a man, I don't get disturbed and judge them.

Lyndie you get my vote too! Well written. My cousin is a gay man - the kindest person anyone ever met. We don't care about his sexual preferences - he is full of wonderful human qualities and my family love him dearly. He too has been beaten up - teased and gone through the mill and yet he still holds no anger to the pigs who did this to him. I wiped the blood from his face after a vicious attack and it made me so so sad. I was really scared because several years ago I was with a young man, only 17 years old who was beaten to death for being gay. I lived in Africa then and attitudes there are really bad. I held his hand as he died because his parents had disowned him and would not be at his death bed. So I am scared for gay men now after that terrible experience.

My cousin works for various charities in Africa and cares for the homeless in his spare time. He always has a cup of tea and a kind word for anyone. He has the best sense of humour! I always think if these qualities are what gay men have - we need more of them in the world.

I think oience last post was very useful-it is true we need to develop empathy as individuals and I liked what you say about empathy as a world. I think I said before that I have been reading alot about NVC (non-violent communication) .It puts a lot of emphasis on interpersonal things like empathy. It is helping me a lot in personal and working relationships. They have a website if people are interesed.

Hey oludenizdollz...I am interested, thank you!

I think we have to make allowances for our non-english speaking friends in the posts, who may sometimes not express their thoughts exactly because of the language difficulties. Sometimes, a complex idea or feeling will not be expressed properly because there are too many subtle and sophisticated words to do this. So we must not be too harsh judges of ideas which may not be the full and exact view of the 'speaker'.

I think the main thing is that we all encourage each other to exchange these ideas because that is the only way people can learn new ideas, new attitudes or even just a few plain old facts that have been hidden from them. I am happy with this forum, thanks to Catwoman for starting it

i like lyndie have three sons and one of them is gay.yes at first i was upset not for my self but for him he was very brave and extremley honest with me , but it has been very hard for him at thats why i feel sad for him. he was only 16 when he told me , and like lyndie i always knew he was different compared to my other sons .they also had to learn to except him for his differences, and i feel the both have a very mature attitude towards it , they say its a bit strange having a gay brother but he is still their brother. i would say the only person in my family that is still struggling with this is my husband sometimes he cant even look at his own son and this tears me apart , i have to support both of them at times and i feel a bit like piggy in the middle,but because i love them both i to have to try and understand their differences between them. this is now four years on and i hope one day that my son and his father can become friends again.

I don't know what the last dozen or so posts have got to do with this serious subject however it saddens me to read that the family of class members are attacked in the street merely for being "gay". This is totally uacceptable.

Don't you all think you have got a bit off topic?