I wonder, how is homosexuality viewed or treated in Turkey?

yes i asked the same questions too.and surprised as much as u...

Not very good certainly if it is about the Turkish people themselves but there is more flexibility for the tourists.

As far as I see here in some parts of Britain it is not so welcome either. Probably the same could apply to medittarranean countries.

sorry i mean many asked me same question too

as there is only man and woman sexes in this world we live on it... i dont know any sex like that... well we argued alot in this topic before i guess... no need more talk about it.. they can do whatever they want without touching me..

You should be so lucky Sui

Why do you think a gay person would be so keen to touch you!

No Bod my observations so far tell me Sui is an ok person. But it pi**es me off that people think if a person is gay they gonna be touching up anything that moves!

for sure in turkey homosexuality is less toleranced than it is toleranted in netherlands..but not less than other eurapen countries or USA..in my opinion it is an ilness and it must be cured somehow..but nobody have a right to judge these people cos of thier choices..do they judge us cos of we choose the opposite sex?

no no no..why would i be intoleranced to homosexuels..i dont like homosexuals to feel themselves crushed..this is their choice thats it..haa when i come to ilness subject..its just my own idea i just dont believe in homosexuality..its abnormal when u think natural circle..but i dont care what people choose..it doesnt interest me..

As far as I understand, it is an abnormality to do with the chromosones.

hi bod..i wanna answer u by asking a question if u allow..what would happen if all the males were homosexual?

Well there might be a lot of skirtwearing and bumming going on!!! (joke)

a lover Sui - a lover!!!

-I go to sleep now-sweet dreams Sui baby!!

so can i ask ur answer?did u able to find an answer?

Oh to see the world in such a brilliant, blissful, bi-polar state

i respect ur labor..thanks for sharing ur ideas..and answering me (a man who knows nothing about sexual pleasure as ur scene) so long..take care..

Bod you amaze me! Lucky old dolphins!

Well. I respect the views of everyone here. I particularly respect Sui Generis because I know that he is a very good, kind and sensitive person, but I have to say something.

First of all, one of my three sons is gay. I have known he would be since he was a little boy. he can't help it! Its not an illness that can be cured. Only recently has it been discovered that it is a problem with chromozones. Believe me, if it was possible to 'cure' this he would be the first in the queue at the clinic.

In London, it is quite acceptable to be gay, men and women are openly homosexual. BUT some people still hate gay people and last Friday, my son was beaten up by 15 'animal' like boys who thought it would be ok to beat up the 'poof' -he was not seriously hurt thank god because lots of people helped him and the police came, but he could have been killed.

Sui, I want to explain why gay people 'show themselves off' and make a world issue out of it. It is not just a matter of thinking 'I don't care if people are gay, as long as they keep it to themselves' - heterosexual people can display their 'straightness' in public. Couples can walk along hand in hand, with their arms around each other and can kiss in public. Why shouldn't gay people also have this right?

For years in the UK, gay people were actually criminals. Gay men would have to marry and live miserable lives just so they could look 'normal' - the gay movement, openly encourages gay people to look like what they are because eventually this leads to a society that is tolerant and understanding. There has to be a period of rebellion in order to make social change. If my English isn't simple enough please say so and i will try and explain it better. People really can't help being gay and there is no reason on God's earth why they should have to be sad lonely and miserable or afraid or beaten just because some people in the society don't approve of them. If you are a believer in God and think that God made everything and everyone for a reason, then there is no reason to believe that God did not also make people gay!

Sui Turkish society generally is not as tolerant as you. The tourist industry do not mind gay people, because their money is as good as anyones. BUT Turkish gay people have terrible lives. Yes, there really are gay Turks! More than you would ever believe. They just can't allow anyone to know that they are gay because of the consequences. In many families in Turkey, a son who is gay could easily be expelled from his family. I can understand that there is some social reasons for this. A son must marry and have children so that the family can be looked after. This is another social problem. In societies where there is lots of help for people from the state, the onus on looking after the old does not fall on the shoulders of the younger generations and social pressures to marry and have children is not so great.

you cannot serve in the Turkish army if you are gay! This denies the young men brave enough to admit they are gay the opportunity to serve in the army that all boys are so proud of.

It was the same in England also, but that has changed now.

Lets consider Tarkan. Young, rich and famous. He is now living in the US and it is the opinion of many turks that he does so because he was hated by much of Turkey because it is believed he is gay. Actually he is lucky, because he is rich, good looking and famous he was able to escape. Maybe he can be free in the US (I hope so) because if he is not then all the money and fame in the world will not make him happy.

Many gay people want only to be like everyone else get married and have children but they know this can never be. Imagine how awful that is?

Imagine the life of the gay Turkish boy/man. Forced to try and live his life the way he is expected to. Forced to marry and forced to have children. some gay men absolutely cannot have sex with a woman. Imagine that! the constant fear of being 'discovered' - the 'lucky' ones are able to have sex with a woman, just often enough to have children, they (and their wives) are then condemned to a life with no sex because the fear of being discovered.

Imagine too being in a position where you absolutely cannot move to another country where it is more acceptable!

Finally and this is very ironic. When my family first went to Turkey for a holiday (including my gay son) - all my children were absolutely convinced that there were absolutely hundreds of gay men in Turkey, because all the men and boys walked outside with their arms around each other, kissed each other in public and generally behaved in a way, which in England would be considered 'gay' behaviour - Its a funny old world isn't it?

Homosexuality was frowned upon when I was young, nowadays it seems to be free: I will not be surprised at all, if it becomes obligatory in near future.

lyndie,
first of all i am very sorry that ur son has beaten by animals..ur writing was very affective..i understood that talking from here is too easy without understanding the harmful consequences that homosexuals live..first me than the rest of the world must try to create emphaty before talking..if i hurt u with my words i am terribly sorry..it was deeply affecting to read the words of a mother who is sorry for his son..may be i was talking without seeing the whole problem..without thinking their lifes..their problems..social debauchery.so very thanks for ur scene-widing writing..i hope u ur son and all other people living this problem would be happy somehow..i will try to talk more cerefully and think twice before talking cos somebody is really living with it..ur right..anyway hopes with good days..take care..bye..

Lyndie
I am so sorry for your son getting beaten up, and thank you for sharing your intelligent comments on the subject! I do appreciate it.

Besides that...I only want to say that I vote for bod, anytime!

Thanks to everyone who responded with pm's or post. there is no need for anyone to feel sorry, really its ok

I thought carefully about writing my post and then I thought I would explain it to everyone,so they could see the reality and that when people talk about 'gays', like they are some kind of different species to the rest of us, they are not. they are just ordinary people, trying to live their lives like the rest of us.

If you think of the hardships in life that we all suffer. Work and college pressures, money problems, relationship problems etc which everyone has wherever they come from, just imagine adding on this really big problem also. It is very hard.

Spare an extra thought for people who do live in Turkey and other countries where it is not acceptable (as in UK and US) and think how much harder their lives are.

Don't anyone worry, no one upset or offended me (oience ), I just wanted to enlighten everyone a little.
Kisses to everyone.

Thank you, Lyndie!
Actually Lyndie, I would vote for you anytime too!!!
kisses from lioness

yeah the thing i told is like lyndies... there is not any 3rd sex there is only man and woman.. only the needs maybe not needs but choices are different.. well ppl are doing anything they cant find a cure for this? and if this is related to molecular biology and chromosoms... this is impossible...

I think not everybody has the same experience even of being gay. It is not something to "find a cure for". I have perhaps six friends (I cannot be bothered to count) who are gay, happy with who they are and one of them does have a child who he fathered for a lebian couple we know.

I am not sure about the chromosome thing. I do not trust research and science it has been used for social control purposes so many times. Even if it were true scietifically it does not change that being gay is just another aspect of the rich tapestry of being human. Is someone with Downs syndrome any less human because they hav a difference in their chromosones-I think not myself.

I'd like to say that yes being homosexual is not seen as a right or as a part of freedom in Turkey and I'm sure not only in Turkey. It's something to be embrassed to have a gay son, or many men would be disturbed to have a gay friend. But maybe we need time to have them in our family or in our close surrounding proudly not feeling that it's the worst thing that could happen. But I've to say that we do have toleration, it's not that bad. I can give you tens of obviously homosexual turkish men that are famous and people really do like them, in turkish music indusrty there're so many homosexuals and even tough sometimes people tease them, they don't really disrespect or treat them badly. Lindy said that Tarkan was lucky to be able to escape from the country, no it's definitely wrong. He doesn't need to escape from the turkish people, because he's the most loved singer in Turkey, and really maybe he's the only singer that have so many male fans, there have been so many paparazzi gossips about his homosexuality, but people really don't give any f..k to his sexual preference actually, noone cares if he's a gay or not. I think turkish people do have a respect to them when they do good things, but yes in the street we're not very willing to give them a lot of opportunities, and we're not ready for a gay son yet. So, there're a lot of feminen dressed homosexuals that sell themselves to men to earn money, and they also disturb me because they behave abnormally, not like one of us. But there're also a lot of unknown male-looking gay people that exist in out society, but we don't notice them. As long as they don't do ugly things and behave as a simple person whose only difference is sleeping with a man, I don't get disturbed and judge them.

Lyndie you get my vote too! Well written. My cousin is a gay man - the kindest person anyone ever met. We don't care about his sexual preferences - he is full of wonderful human qualities and my family love him dearly. He too has been beaten up - teased and gone through the mill and yet he still holds no anger to the pigs who did this to him. I wiped the blood from his face after a vicious attack and it made me so so sad. I was really scared because several years ago I was with a young man, only 17 years old who was beaten to death for being gay. I lived in Africa then and attitudes there are really bad. I held his hand as he died because his parents had disowned him and would not be at his death bed. So I am scared for gay men now after that terrible experience.

My cousin works for various charities in Africa and cares for the homeless in his spare time. He always has a cup of tea and a kind word for anyone. He has the best sense of humour! I always think if these qualities are what gay men have - we need more of them in the world.

I think oience last post was very useful-it is true we need to develop empathy as individuals and I liked what you say about empathy as a world. I think I said before that I have been reading alot about NVC (non-violent communication) .It puts a lot of emphasis on interpersonal things like empathy. It is helping me a lot in personal and working relationships. They have a website if people are interesed.

Hey oludenizdollz...I am interested, thank you!

I think we have to make allowances for our non-english speaking friends in the posts, who may sometimes not express their thoughts exactly because of the language difficulties. Sometimes, a complex idea or feeling will not be expressed properly because there are too many subtle and sophisticated words to do this. So we must not be too harsh judges of ideas which may not be the full and exact view of the 'speaker'.

I think the main thing is that we all encourage each other to exchange these ideas because that is the only way people can learn new ideas, new attitudes or even just a few plain old facts that have been hidden from them. I am happy with this forum, thanks to Catwoman for starting it

i like lyndie have three sons and one of them is gay.yes at first i was upset not for my self but for him he was very brave and extremley honest with me , but it has been very hard for him at thats why i feel sad for him. he was only 16 when he told me , and like lyndie i always knew he was different compared to my other sons .they also had to learn to except him for his differences, and i feel the both have a very mature attitude towards it , they say its a bit strange having a gay brother but he is still their brother. i would say the only person in my family that is still struggling with this is my husband sometimes he cant even look at his own son and this tears me apart , i have to support both of them at times and i feel a bit like piggy in the middle,but because i love them both i to have to try and understand their differences between them. this is now four years on and i hope one day that my son and his father can become friends again.

I don't know what the last dozen or so posts have got to do with this serious subject however it saddens me to read that the family of class members are attacked in the street merely for being "gay". This is totally uacceptable.

Don't you all think you have got a bit off topic?

I just wonder what makes people think that way? When you're gay, people talk about you like: "Oh he's gay".. But they don't talk about me, like: "Oh she's straight".

I just don't get the big deal. Because.. i think everyone here on this forum agrees that LOVE is one of the bestest things right? One of the good, pure things we should cherish. If a man falls in love with a man, or a woman with a woman.. then they have exactly what we all should cherish: LOVE!

Love between any human being is the best that can exist. Love between mother and child, love between good friends, love between me and my gay-friend, love between two lovers.

Each love, when it is shared between 2 people (i believe you can only fully give your hear to ONE lover, but share your heart with MANY friends and family. But each love should come from two sides, that is what i mean with 'between 2 people') should be cherished. Age or gender should not be of any matter because LOVE goes to hearts and souls too. And I wonder if there is thát much difference between a male or female heart and soul! In the end, we're all human.

Turkey not an easy place for all sort extrems,and biggest part of Turkish people don't have enough tolerance for them depend social,cultural and religional reasons,but things changing on this topic to as on everything with the effects of industrialization,so why extrems of past getting usual day by day..Social and family pressure getting less as the reflection of city life a bit more each new day in our country to,and social&moral values taking its place to individual freedoms a bit more each new day,but still biggest part Turkish people have deep red lines on their life...

http://www.qrd.org/QRD/www/world/europe/turkey/islamottoman.htm