whats the difference between cikarmak and cikartmak :S

these words sometimes confuse me.....

hmmm im still confused yaa...
lets say that i wanna say:
"i took off my shoes"


which one would it be? im assuming shoes are counted under clothing.. beni sapık sanmayın yani hehe


ÇIKARMAK 2. /ı/ to take off, remove (an article of clothing); to doff (one´s hat).


ÇIKARTMAK 2. /a, ı/ to have or let (someone) take off (an article of clothing); to have or let (a man) doff (his hat).

They both have same meaning.
Ayakkabılarımı çıkardım.
Ayakkabılarımı çıkarttım.

Ondan beşi çıkardım.
Ondan beşi çıkarttım.

Only in math, çıkart- sounds better, but still has same meaning.

I am studying the "ettirgen çati" and...... :-S
according to my grammar book, there are several ways to form it:
1. -dır/dir/dur/dür (-tır/tir/tur/tür) added to the majority of one syllable verbal stems ended in vowel or in consonant and to the majority of multi sylable verbal stems ended in consonant:
yazmak (to write)- yazdırmak (to put/ask sb to write)
sormak (to ask)- sordurmak (to put sb to ask)
öpmek (to kiss)- öptürmek (to put/let sb kiss)

inanmak (to believe)- inandırmak (to make sb believe)
uyanmak (to wake oneself up)- inandırmak (to wake sb up)
değişmek (to change oneself)- değiştirmek (to change)

2. -t added to the multi syllable verbal stems ended in vowel and to the multi syllable verbal stems ended in -l and -r:
boyamak (to dye)- boyanmak (to have sth dyed)
beklemek (to wait)- bekletmek (to put sb to wait)
uyumak (to sleep)- uyutmak (to make sb sleep)

götürmek (to carry)- götürtmek (to have sb carry sth)
çoğalmak (to multiply itself)- çoğaltmak (to multiply)

3.-ir/ır/ur/ür added to the majority of the verbal stems ended in ç/ğ/ş/t/y:
içmek (to drink)- içirmek (to have/make sb drink)
düşmek (to fall)- düşÃ¼rmek (to drop sth)
doymak (to be full)- doyurmak (to give food to sb)

4. -ar/er aded to the following one sylable verbal stems:
çıkmak (to exit)- çıkarmak (to take sth out)
gitmek (to leave)- gidermek (to make sb. leave)
kopmak (to draw/tear itself apart)- koparmak (to draw/tear apart)

5.-ıt/it/ut/üt added to a limited no of one syllable verbal stems ended in k/rk:
akmak (to pour)- akıtmak (to make sth pour)
korkmak (to be affraid)- korkutmak (to scare sb)
sapmak (to deviate)- sapıtmak ( to make sb deviate from a road)

*depending on the no of subjects taking part in the action, the suffix of the "ettirgen çatı" can double or triple:
anlamak (to understand)- anlatmak (to communicate, to depict)- anlattırmak (to have sb communicate/depict)
çıkmak -çıkarmak -çıkartmak
yemek (to eat)- yedirmek (to feed)- yedirtmek (to have sb feed sb else)
ölmek (to die) -öldürmek (to kill sb)- öldürtmek (to have sb kill sb else)

as I am pretty sure the "ettirgen çatı" is not very easy to grasp, addtional explanations and exaples would be highly appreciated

(Konuya küçük bir katkı. Arkadaşlardan birisi, İngilizceye çevirebilirse, sevinirim.)

1. Nesne alamayan, yani yüklem olarak kullanıldıkları cümlede, istenilse bile, nesne kullanılamayan fillere GEÃ‡İŞSİZ fiiler denir. Bu fiiller “kimi, neyi, ne” sorularına cevap veremezler. Öznenin yaptığı iş, başka bir varlığı etkilemez.

Bugün sinemaya gittim.('git-' fiili,nesne alamaz/geçişsiz.)


2. Geçişsiz fiil tabanlarına “-(i)t, -(i)r, -tir” eklerinden uygun olanı getirilerek o fiile geçişlilik özelliği kazandırılabilir. Böyle fiillere OLDURGAN fiiller denir.

Aniden, yolda durdum. ('Dur-' fiili, nesne alamaz/geçişsiz)

Yolda, aniden arabayı durdurdum. ('dur+dur-' fiili nesne alabilir/oldurgan)


3. Geçişli fiil tabanlarına “-(i)t, -(i)r, -tir” ekleri getirilerek fiilin geçişlilik derecesi artırılabilir. Böyle fiillere ETTİRGEN fiiller denir.

Kapıyı açtı. ('aç-' fiili, nesne alıyor/geçişli)

Kapıyı açtırdı. ('aç+tır-' fiili nesne alıyor/ettirgen)


NOT: Oldurgan fiillerin özneleri YAPICI olduğu halde, ETTİRGEN fiillerin özneleri YAPTIRICIdır (Özne, işi başkasına yaptırır).

Juliacernat

boyamak (to dye)- boyaTmak (to have sth dyed)

Metehan2001

1)The verbs that cannot have objects, that means in the sentence they are the verb of it an object cannot be used,even if you want to, with those verbs, are called intransitive verbs. Those verbs cannot answer whom, the what(pointing an onject), what questions. The action has been done by the Subject doesn't affect another creature or thing.

Bugün sinemaya gittim.('git-' fiili,nesne alamaz/geçişsiz.)
The verb git- cannot have an object./Intransitive

2)Intransitive verbs can be made transitive using the suitable one of the following infixes. “-(i)t, -(i)r, -tir” This kind of verbs are called causative/oldurgan verbs.

Aniden, yolda durdum. ('Dur-' fiili, nesne alamaz/geçişsiz)
Dur- verb cannot have an object.Intransitive.

Yolda, aniden arabayı durdurdum. ('dur+dur-' fiili nesne alabilir/oldurgan)
Dur+dur- verb can have an object. Causative/oldurgan.

3)Transitive verbs' transation degree can be increased adding “-(i)t, -(i)r, -tir” infixes. This kind of verbs are called CAUSATIVE/ettirgen verbs.

Kapıyı açtı. ('aç-' fiili, nesne alıyor/geçişli)
The verb aç- can have an object./Transitive

Kapıyı açtırdı. ('aç+tır-' fiili nesne alıyor/ettirgen)
The verb aç+tır can have an object./Causative/Ettirgen.

PS: I don't know the right grammar term to name oldurgan and ettirgen.
But the way to distinguish them is simple.
If the root of the causative verb is transitive then it is Ettirgen-causative.
If the root of the causative verb is intransitive then it is Oldurgan-causative.

I hope someone can make more detailed explanation about oldurgan and ettirgen.

Extra PS: A verb can be made causative with adding “-(i)t, -(i)r, -tir” and the number of these infixes show how many person or things are involved in the action.
Ex: Açtırtırtırttı.
But most of the Turkish grammarians are agree that more than 2 of them(“-(i)t, -(i)r, -tir”) cannot be used at a time for a verb. So they call such verbs grammatically wrong, I mean the ones that have 3 or more causative infixes. Even though it is possible and logical in my opinion, don't use more than 2.

Out of topic PS: There is a language in Africa, was it Swahili or another ? I don't remember., in which the causative is made using -as infix and they(grammarians of that language) are agree that you can use any number of them without being grammatically wrong, if you ever need to tell something that involved ,say, 15 people.