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English loanwords in the Turkish language
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[1] 2 3
1.       tpace
9 posts
 25 Feb 2006 Sat 12:29 pm

Hello!

At the moment I am working on an assignment regarding English loanwords integration into European languages.

I would be very grateful if anyone send me websites or documents he/she may have regarding English loanwords into Turkish.

1) How are these being integrated in the Turkish language?
2) Is there any orthographic rule about them?
3) Are they at a high rate?
4) Do they influence the Turkish language?

Thanks in advance,
thomas

2.       erdinc
2151 posts
 25 Feb 2006 Sat 04:14 pm

Hi thomas,
you are asking in the right place. Some time ago I was looking for such a list. I'm a Turkish language teacher and I teach Turkish as a foreign language in the UK. I thought these words would be useful for foreigners to learn Turkish easier.

At the end I couldn't find any existing list and decided to create one. Actually the list has been created with the help of our foreign members here. I just revised the list.

The list is right here in this very forum. You can find it as a sticky thread or click here:

List of Turkish words that English speakers are able to understand
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_1710

The most common word in Turkish that has been adopted from European languages is 'doktor'.

3.       tpace
9 posts
 26 Feb 2006 Sun 12:48 pm

Hi Erdinc,

Thanks a lot for your list. It is very useful for my studies. Well done to you, Natlisa and Bliss for your work.

Do you have any other information related to this subject or maybe this list updated in alphabetical order in a document?

Can anyone of you answer my questions above?

Something else. Is there an English version of the Türk Dil Kurumu (TDK) website (or any other similar site)?

Thanks once again for your help,
thomas

4.       erdinc
2151 posts
 26 Feb 2006 Sun 05:14 pm

The alphabetical list is below. You can copy to any document. Most websites about Turkish language in English are listed in another sticky thread in this language forum. I think there is nothing else that can be useful.

The effect of English is very strong on spoken language. Unfortunately the new Turkish generation which I call the 'msn generation' uses an extremely corrupted and annoying Turkish-English mixture. I think we are in a stage where English has become a serious thread for Turkish.
Every day you see a new English word used directly as it is in English. For long time we have heard things like "çok süper oldu" but these says we can even hear "perfect oldu". I find it so annoying when somebody talks like this.

There are also other effects of English. For instance "çıkmak" is a verb that means going out as in "Ben dışarı çıkıyorum" (I'm going out), but because of the effect of foreign languages now we also use it as to "go out with somebody".

Benimle çıkar mısın?
Ali ve Ayşe çıkıyorlar mu?
Sen Ayşe ile çıkıyor musun?

There are a lot examples like this. These msn guys usually don't use Turkish equalences even if there is a common one. This is especially true with computer terms such as mouse (fare), hardware (donanım), software (yazılım), etc. The msn generation also knows every rubbish musician and Hollywood movie etc. They of course don't read any literature or whatever. All these are a result of a cultural corruption that started with the Prime Minister Turgut Özal in the middle 1980's.


acente
adapte
adres
Afrika
ağustos
ajan
akort
akrobat
aksesuar
aktör
aktris
akustik
akvaryum
alarm
alaturka
albüm
alerji
alerjik
alfabe
alfabetik
alkol
alkolik
alkolizm
Almanya
alo
alüminyum
amatör
ambargo
ambulans
Amerika
amin
amiral
amonyak
ampul
analiz
analoji
anatomi
anekdot
anestezi
anonim
anormal
ansiklopedi
anten
antibiyotik
antidemokratik
antifriz
antik
antika
antipati
antipatik
antiseptik
antoloji
apandisit
apartman
arabesk
aranjman
arena
argo
aristokrasi
aristokrat
aritmetik
arkeolog
arkeoloji
armoni
arsenik
arşiv
artezyen
artist
artistik
arya
asbest
asfalt
asimetrik
asistan
asit
aspirin
astroloji
astronomi
astronot
Asya
atlas
atlet
atletik
atmosfer
atölye
atom
avans
Avrupa
aysberg
azot
bagaj
baklava
bakteri
balistik
balkon
balon
bambu
bando
banka
banker
bar
barometre
basketbol
benzin
berber
biftek
bikini
bilardo
bira
bisiklet
biyografi
biyoloji
blok
blucin
bluz
bobin
boksör
bomba
bonbon
bordo
botanik
bravo
brifing
Britanya
bronz
buket
buldozer
bülten
bulvar
bungalov
büro
bürokrasi
burs
büst
butik
çakal
çay
caz
CD
ceket
çelenk
çengel
centilmen
çikolata
çimento
dans
dedektif
dekolte
dekor
dekorasyon
dekoratör
delta
demokrasi
demokrat
depo
depozit
derviş
destroyer
deterjan
dijital
diktatör
dikte
dinamit
dinamo
diploma
diplomat
diplomatik
divan
diyalog
diyet
dizanteri
doktor
doktora
doküman
dolar
dolma
domates
domino
döner kebap
dosya
doz
dram
dramatik
duble
dubleks
düello
duş
düzine
editör
egoist
egzersiz
ekonomi
ekonomik
eksper
ekspres
ekstra
ekvator
elektrik
elektronik
elips
emperyalist
endüstri
enerji
enerjik
enflasyon
enstitü
enstrüman
entegre
entelektüel
enteresan
enternasyonal
entrika
epik
eroin
esans
estetik
etiket
etnik
fabrika
fakülte
fanatik
fantezi
faşist
fayton
federal
federasyon
feminist
feminizm
fes
festival
figür
fileto
film
filoloji
filozof
filtre
final
finans
firma
fiyasko
fizik
fizyoloji
fizyonomi
flanel
flaş
floresan
florin
flört
flüt
fobi
folklor
fonetik
fonksiyon
form
forma
formalite
formika
formül
fosfor
fosil
foto
fotoğraf
fotojenik
fotokopi
Fransa
frekans
frikik
fuaye
futbol
gabardin
gaf
gala
galeri
galeta
galon
gangster
garaj
garanti
gargara
garnitür
garnizon
garson
gaz
gazete
gazino
gen
genel
geometri
geometrik
gerilla
gitar
giyotin
glikoz
gliserin
gol
golf
gondol
goril
gotik
grafik
gram
gramer
gramofon
granit
gravür
greyfurt
gri
grup
gut
hamak
hamburger
han
hangar
harem
harp
havyar
hegemonya
hektar
helikopter
helva
hentbol
hey
hidroelektrik
hidrojen
hidrolik
hipermarket
hipnotizma
hipnoz
hipodrom
hipopotam
hippi
Hıristiyan
histeri
holding
homo
homoseksüel
hormon
hostes
ideal
idealist
idealizm
ideoloji
ideolojik
ikon
imaj
imam
imparator
indeks
İngiliz
İngiltere
inorganik
İnternet
iskelet
İslam
ıspanak
ispanya
ıstampa
istasyon
istatistik
italik
İtalya
iyon
iyot
jaguar
jaluzi
jambon
jandarma
Japonya
jarse
jelatin
jeneratör
jeolog
jeoloji
jest
jet
jeton
jigolo
jilet
jimnastik
jinekolog
jokey
jöle
jübile
judo
jüri
jurnal
kabare
kabin
kabine
kadastro
kadı
kafein
kafeterya
kaftan
kahve
kakao
kaktüs
kalamar
kalibre
kalori
kalsiyum
kamelya
kamera
kameraman
kamp
kampanya
kamuflaj
kanada
kanal
kanarya
kangren
kanguru
kano
kanser
kantin
kanun
kanyon
kaos
kapasite
kapital
kapitalist
kapitalizm
kapitülasyon
kapris
kapsül
kaptan
karakter
karakteristik
karantina
karate
karavan
karbon
karbon dioksit
karbonat
karbonhidrat
karbonik
karbüratör
kardinal
kargo
karikatür
karikatürist
kariyer
karnaval
kart
kartel
karton
kartpostal
kasiyer
kaşmir
katafalk
katalog
katarakt
katedral
kategori
Katolik
kayık
kebap
kermes
kervan
ketçap
kilim
kilo
kilogram
kilometre
kilovat
kimyon
kinetik
kısmet
klan
klarnet
klasik
klinik
klips
klor
klorofil
kloroform
koalisyon
kod
kokain
kokteyl
kola
kolej
koleksiyon
kolektif
kolera
kolesterol
kolon
koloni
kolonya
kolye
koma
komando
komedi
komedya
komedyen
komik
komisyon
komite
kompartıman
kompleks
kompliman
kompozisyon
kompozitör
kompresör
komünist
komünizm
kondüktör
konfederasyon
konferans
konfeti
koni
konik
konser
konservatuar
konserve
konsol
konsolidasyon
konsültasyon
kontes
kontra
kontrast
kontrat
kontratak
kontrbas
kontrol
konvoy
kooperatif
koordinasyon
koordinat
kopya
kordon
koridor
korner
korniş
korse
kort
kortej
kostüm
kota
kovboy
kozmetik
kozmonot
kozmopolit
kramp
krater
kravat
kredi
kredi kartı
krem
krema
krep
kriket
kriminoloji
kristal
kritik
kriz
krom
kromozom
kronik
kronoloji
kronometre
kuaför
kübik
kültür
küp
kupa
kupon
kuran
kurs
kurye
kuzen
labirent
laboratuar
lahmacun
lamba
lastik
Latin
lav
lavanta
lazer
leopar
leydi
leylak
liberal
liberalizm
lider
lig
likit
likör
limit
limon
limonata
linç
lir
lira
lirik
lisans
liste
litre
lobi
logaritma
lojistik
lokal
lokomotif
lokum
losyon
maç
madalya
madalyon
madam
maestro
mafya
magazin
magnezyum
majeste
majör
makarna
maket
maki
maksimum
makyaj
mamut
manastır
manda
mandalina
mandolin
manevra
manganez
manifesto
manikür
manolya
manto
manyak
manyetik
manyetizma
maraton
margarin
marj
marka
marki
markiz
Marksist
Marksizm
Marmara
marmelat
mars
martini
masaj
mask
maske
maskot
mason
masör
matador
matematik
materyal
materyalist
materyalizm
matine
matmazel
matris
mavzer
mayıs
mayonez
medrese
medyum
megafon
megaloman
megavat
mekanik
mekanizma
melankoli
melankolik
melodi
melodram
menajer
menenjit
menopoz
mentol
menü
mersi
mesaj
metabolizma
metafizik
metal
metalürji
metan
meteor
meteoroloji
metodoloji
metot
metre
metres
metrik
metro
metronom
meze
midi
migren
mika
mikrobiyoloji
mikrofilm
mikrofon
mikrometre
mikron
mikroorganizma
mikrop
mikroskobik
mikroskop
mikser
mil
miligram
mililitre
milim
milimetre
milis
militan
milyon
milyoner
mimik
mimoza
minare
mineral
mineraloji
mini
minibüs
minimum
minör
minyatür
minyon
mistik
mistisizm
misyon
misyoner
miting
mitoloji
mizansen
moda
model
modern
modernize
modül
mokasen
molekül
molla
monarşi
monolog
monopol
monoton
montaj
moral
moratoryum
morfin
morg
mors
mösyö
motel
motif
motor
motosiklet
mozaik
mumya
Müslüman
müze
müzik
müzikal
müzikhol
müzisyen
naftalin
namaz
nargile
narkotik
narkoz
natüralist
natürel
naylon
nazar
negatif
nektar
neon
nikel
nikotin
nitrat
nitrojen
Noel
normal
not
nötron
nükleer
numara
obje
objektif
obua
ofis
ofsayt
ofset
okaliptüs
oksijen
oksit
oktav
okyanus
olimpiyat
omlet
ontoloji
opera
operasyon
operatör
operet
optik
orangutan
ordövr
org
organ
organik
organizasyon
organizatör
organizma
orgazm
orgeneral
orijinal
orkestra
orkide
Ortodoks
ortopedi
ortopedik
oryantal
oşinografi
otel
oto
otobiyografi
otobüs
otokrasi
otokrat
otokritik
otomasyon
otomat
otomatik
otomobil
otomotiv
otonom
otonomi
otopark
otopsi
otorite
otostop
oval
ozon
paket
pakt
palas
palet
palmiye
panama
panda
pandomim
panik
pankreas
panorama
pansiyon
panter
pantolon
papirüs
papyon
parabol
paradoks
parafin
paragraf
paralel
parametre
parantez
paraşüt
parazit
pardon
parfüm
parite
park
parka
parlamenter
parlamento
parodi
parsel
parti
partizan
paşa
pasaj
pasaport
pasif
pastel
pastil
pastırma
pastörize
patates
patent
patoloji
patron
pazar
pedagog
pedagoji
pedal
pedikür
pelerin
pelikan
pelüş
penaltı
penguen
penisilin
pentatlon
performans
periskop
perma
personel
perspektif
petrokimya
petrol
petunya
pijama
pikap
pike
piknik
pilav
pilot
pinpon
pipet
pipo
piramit
piston
piyanist
piyano
pizza
plan
plastik
platform
platin
plato
platonik
plazma
podyum
poker
polemik
poligami
poligon
polis
politik
politika
pomat
pompa
ponpon
pop
popüler
porno
pornografi
porselen
porsiyon
portatif
portre
posta
postane
potansiyel
potasyum
potpuri
poz
pozitif
pratik
prelüt
prens
prenses
prensip
pres
prestij
prezantabl
prezervatif
prim
prizma
problem
prodüktör
profesör
profesyonel
profil
program
proje
projeksiyon
projektör
propaganda
prospektüs
prostat
protein
Protestan
protesto
protez
protokol
protoplazma
prototip
psikanalist
psikanaliz
psikiyatri
psikiyatrist
psikolog
psikoloji
psikolojik
psikopat
psikoterapi
puding
pudra
puf
püre
radar
radikal
radyasyon
radyatör
radyo
radyoaktif
rafineri
raket
rakı
ralli
ramazan
rampa
randevu
rapor
rasyonalizm
rasyonel
reaksiyon
reaktör
realist
realite
realizm
redaktör
referandum
referans
refleks
reflektör
reform
regülatör
rehabilitasyon
rejim
reklam
rekor
rektör
repertuar
replik
resepsiyon
resital
restoran
restorasyon
reverans
revolver
revü
rezerv
rezervasyon
rezistans
ring
risk
ritim
robot
roket
rol
rom
romantik
romantizm
romatizma
Rönesans
röportaj
rosto
rötuş
rövanş
rozet
rulet
rulo
sabotaj
sadist
sadizm
saksofon
şal
salam
salata
salon
şampanya
şampiyon
şampuan
sanatoryum
sandal
sandalet
sandviç
şans
sansasyon
sansür
şantaj
santigram
santigrat
santimetre
şarapnel
şarbon
şarj
şarjör
şarlatan
şasi
saten
sauna
sedir
şef
şeker
sekreter
seks
seksoloji
sektör
selektör
selfservis
selüloz
semantik
sembol
sembolik
seminer
şempanze
sempati
sempatik
sempozyum
senarist
senaryo
senato
senatör
senfoni
senfonik
sentetik
sentez
seramik
şerbet
seremoni
serenat
şerif
sertifika
serum
servis
şeytan
sezaryen
şezlong
sezon
sifon
şifon
şifoniyer
sigara
silikon
silindir
simetri
simetrik
sinema
siren
şırınga
sistem
sivil
şizofreni
skandal
slogan
soda
sodyum
şoför
şok
solist
sömestr
sonat
soprano
şort
sos
sosis
sosyal
sosyalist
sosyalizm
sosyete
sosyetik
sosyolog
sosyoloji
şov
soya
spagetti
spekülasyon
spekülatif
spekülatör
sperm
spesifik
spesiyal
spiker
spiral
sponsor
spor
sportmen
sprey
stabilize
stadyum
standart
statü
stenograf
stereo
steril
sterilize
sterlin
stil
stok
stop
strateji
striptiz
stüdyo
sülfat
sülfür
sultan
sumak
süper
süpermarket
süpersonik
sürpriz
sürrealist
şurup
süveter
tablet
tablo
tabu
tahin
takım
taksi
taksimetre
taktik
tampon
tango
tank
tanker
taverna
tayfun
teknik
teknisyen
teknoloji
teknolojik
tekst
tekstil
telefon
telekomünikasyon
teleks
telepati
teleskop
televizyon
telgraf
tema
tempo
tenis
tenor
teorem
teori
terapi
teras
terim
termal
termik
terminal
terminoloji
termometre
termos
termostat
terör
terörist
terörizm
test
tetanos
tim
tiner
tipik
tirat
tişört
tiyatro
toksin
tolerans
tombala
ton
tonaj
tonik
torpido
tost
totem
trafik
trajedi
trajik
traktör
trampet
tramplen
tramvay
transatlantik
transfer
transformasyon
transformatör
transistor
transit
transmisyon
transport
transportasyon
trapez
travma
travmatoloji
tren
trençkot
treyler
trigonometri
triko
trilyon
troleybüs
trombon
trompet
tropik
tropikal
tröst
tümör
tünel
tüp
tur
Turing
turist
turistik
turizm
Türk
Türkiye
turkuaz
tuvalet
ülser
ültimatom
üniforma
ünite
üniversite
ürolog
üroloji
ütopya
uvertür
vakum
valf
vals
vampir
vanilya
vantilatör
varyasyon
Vatikan
vazelin
vazo
vejetaryen
vektör
veranda
veteriner
veto
video
villa
virtüöz
virüs
viski
viskoz
vitamin
viyola
vize
vokal
vokalist
voleybol
volkan
volkanik
volt
voltaj
votka
wc
yasemin
yoğurt
zebra
zeplin
zikzak
zoolog
zooloji
zoolojik

5.       tpace
9 posts
 02 Mar 2006 Thu 06:29 pm

Hi Erdinc and all,

I have some other questions for you.

a) What are the Turkish words for "strike" (stopping of work due to an industrial action) and money "safe"? Are these directly taken from English or written in Turkish?

b) How do you say "to shoot" and "to score" in Turkish. So here I am asking regarding both nouns and verbs in Turkish.

c) What is the attitude of the Turks towards such written/said English loanwords in Turkish? Do they laugh or see it strange when they see an English word written in Turkish phonetically? If yes, what do you think are the main reasons and how should these attitudes be contested?

d) Do you tend to have two words used at the same time in Turkish. For example is the word "futbol" used everywhere or does it appear only on some publiactions and then "football" is frequently used on the media? I have found as well "futbolu". Where is this word used?

If you have any other comments regarding other words I will be more than grateful to read about them.

e) What words does the Turkish administration (government, authorities, associations etc) tend to use? Do they promote English words written phonetically in Turkish or the English loanwords written as they are. For example what do you see on the road signs in Turkey "Bus Stop" or the equivalent word for it in Turkish?

f) What can you tell me regarding the Great Sun Theory?

Thanks once again for your kind help,
thomas

6.       erdinc
2151 posts
 02 Mar 2006 Thu 09:41 pm

Quote:


a) What are the Turkish words for "strike" (stopping of work due to an industrial action) and money "safe"? Are these directly taken from English or written in Turkish?



We say "grev". We have also the word "lokavt". I don't know anything that means safe and is taken from Enhlish.

Quote:

b) How do you say "to shoot" and "to score" in Turkish. So here I am asking regarding both nouns and verbs in Turkish.



To shoot is "vurmak" and is unrelated but in football we have "şut" which is "a shot in football".

To score is either "skor yapmak" (to make a score) or "derece yapmak". We also use "skor" as noun.

Basketbol takımınız çok iyi bir skor yaptı.
Our basketball team made a great score.

Quote:


c) What is the attitude of the Turks towards such written/said English loanwords in Turkish? Do they laugh or see it strange when they see an English word written in Turkish phonetically?



The words that are written according Turkish phonetics are Turkish words. They are no more English. It doesnt matter where from they are originated.

For instance the words doktor, telefon, televizyon, ,radyo, otomobil, duş, kilo, metre, etc. are Turkish words. Their origin might be different but this doesnt mean these words are not Turkish. All the 1300 words adopted from European languages are Turkish. There are also a couple of thousand words adopted from Persian and Arabic and they are Turkish words as well.

If we dig into origins of words we would see that half of the English words or French words or German words are taken from other languages.

The words written according Turkish phonetics are not a problem at all. They are ours. The problem occurs when two words with smillar meanins compete to each other.
For instance we have three words with the same meaning.

1. "doktor" an originally French word,
2. "hekim" an originally Arabic word, and
3. "tabip" an originally Arabic word have the same meaning.

Their usage in todays Turkia is approximately as follows. (I just made them up)

1. "doktor" %80
2. "hekim" %17
3. "tabip" %3

Because doktor is so old dated and is so widely accepted I see no problem with this word replacing the other two. Hekim is stil used by dentists as "diş hekimi" but they also use "diş doktoru" which will probably replace the former one soon.

The word doktor is a Turkish word that is even included in folk songs. It is ours.

These are a matter of acceptance. If a word has acceptance, it becomes a natural part of the language. If it hasn't, it just keeps staying there like a rooster in a hen house. Long time ago, when the first fridges came from Europe to Turkia, among Turks they were called "refigiratör". This word sounded very exciting at the time for those who wanted to show up by buying such an expensive item.
A few years lated the word was replaced with "buz dolabı". The other word sounded too artificial and was replaced with a Turkish word. If it had been sounding better it would remain. There are always alternatives suggested for words that are adopted from other languages but if a word has become too strong in Turkish than there is no chance for an alternative.

Quote:


d) Do you tend to have two words used at the same time in Turkish. For example is the word "futbol" used everywhere or does it appear only on some publiactions and then "football" is frequently used on the media? I have found as well "futbolu". Where is this word used?



No everywhere we use only the Turkish writings.
Futbolu (the football),
futbolda (in football),
futboldan (from football),
fotbolcu (footballer),
futbolcunun (footballer's)
futbolcular (footballers)
futbolcuların (footballers')
furbolun (football's),
futbolla (with football),
fotbolsuz (without football),
fotbolcularla (with footballers),
furbolcusuz (without footballers),

have suffixes attached to the same word futbol. We almost never use the English way of writing if there is a Turkish way. Futbol is a Turkish word.
Turkish is a language based on suffixes. Instead prepositions and conjugations we have suffixes that we attach to words. We have also constructive suffix to make new words from existing word. for instance fotbolcu (footballer) is constructed from futbol.

Quote:


e) What words does the Turkish administration (government, authorities, associations etc) tend to use? Do they promote English words written phonetically in Turkish or the English loanwords written as they are. For example what do you see on the road signs in Turkey "Bus Stop" or the equivalent word for it in Turkish?



TDK (Turkish Language Foundation) is the government organisation about Turkish.

Here is a page by them:
http://tdk.gov.tr/yazim/default.asp

on this page type sk and press "ara". No originally Turkish word starts with "sk" so you will see a few Turkish words that are adopted from foreign languages. Also try "kr" and "tr" and you will see many more results.

Thomas, the words are not English anymore when we use them. The TDK doesnt promote us foreign words. All the words are now Turkish. We write the the Turkish way and we pronounce the the Turkish way. How can a word like "telefon" be foreign?

Foreigners are using words like cafe, coffee and yogurt which are originally Turkish (yoğurt, kahve). Do they feel like "oh no let's not use this word as it is not ours. Do you feel like the word yogurt or coffee is not English when you use them?

Quote:


f) What can you tell me regarding the Great Sun Theory?


These are the sources about this topic:
http://tdkkitaplik.org.tr/gdtraporu.asp
http://tdkkitaplik.org.tr/gdtr/gdtraporu.pdf 31.08.1936 Also in French in this documents signed by these people :
http://tdkkitaplik.org.tr/gdtr/gdtuyeler.pdf

Quote:


If you have any other comments regarding other words I will be more than grateful to read about them.



English is threatening Turkish not because the adopted words but because the tendency among wannabees who speak a corrupted language. These are usually teenagers between 13-17.

I have heard teenagers saying "manyak güzel oldu" (it was maniacally beautiful) or "ultra kolay" (extremely easy). This is I think annoying and artificial.

There are a few words that have remained their English spelling such as web, chat, show, etc. These are only %1 among the words that have been taken from foreign languages.

7.       Deli_kizin
6376 posts
 03 Mar 2006 Fri 01:40 am

Concering the msn-generation you talk about Erdinç, i would like to point out something about that though

About 3 years ago, when i first started to use msn, i also used those kinda terms that you call annoying. Now, i totally agree with you. I even used to type like this: I eVeN uSeD t0 tYpe l1kE thIs, i mixed capitals with normal letters and used numbers for some letters: i=1, 0=o, 5=s. Now when i think of that, that is really just ridiculous and childish. But every young kid/youth (not that im an adult ), uses a way of speech that 'belongs' to his group in the society. When the group alters, its way of speech alters. When you alter (grow up in this matter ) your way of speech alters also.

I don't think you can find many examples of language-abuse in most of my posts. I sometimes shorten words when i am in a hurry, but that's mostly it.

When Kadir says 'i love u 2' instead of 'i love you too' on msn, i sense there is something wrong, because he is speaking short to me. Thus, mostly is the usage of the language of the msn-generation only for their period between 13-17..and when they get older (18 in my case), their behavior changes. People only keep on using certain forms (e.g. you=u, too=2), because it can also express your feelings by words over distance.

I agree with you that the msn-language-abuse is very very annoying, but i think it will always exist, because youth need to 'differ' from the elder generation, which will change when they grow up into being that generation themselves.

Ohh and also what i would like to say regarding many of the intigrated words in Turkish language from French.. for the Turkish people words as 'asansör' and 'enternasyonal' may sound and look perfectly Turkish, for a foreigner like me..i just have to smile when i see them. I hope one day I can have the same feeling you have: pronounce and use the word fütbol or asansör and having a turkish feeling with it. Because yes, when i say koffie or yoghurt (Dutch coffee n yoghurt), i feel like speaking naturally dutch

Language, something alive, changing and wonderful, değil mi?

8.       tpace
9 posts
 03 Mar 2006 Fri 02:11 am

So, am I saying well when I say that new English loanwords in Turkish are written as they are phonetically spelled?

1) Are tentatives being made to create a new word before transforming the loanword in Turkish spelling?
2) Who decide how a loanword is going to be written..the TDK or another standard authority? Is there an orthographic rule about such words?

3) There seems that once a word is 'made' Turkish everyone begins writing that word in that form in Turkey...even the media (newspapers, TV and websites)?

I believe that media promote language and make words acceptable by people. In Maltese for instance most of the loanwords tend to be left as they are originally in English since the media do not promote the Maltese version of them. Since Malta is officially bilingual (Maltese and English), the Maltese people are very familiar with English words and they find it difficult to write English loanwords in Maltese orthography (for example "rawndebawt" for the English "roundabout") and so most of them use "roundabout" written in inverted commas or in italics.

4) Isn't there a period of time where people use both words (the word as it is written in English and the same word in Turkish), because they see the new word written in Turkish strange (as Deli is saying)?
5) Which do you think that Turkish people accept first - a new word created in Turkish or a loanword given Turkish spelling?

This discussion is becoming really interesting, thanks to Erdinc and other members which kindly are answering my queries.

Regards,
Thomas



9.       erdinc
2151 posts
 03 Mar 2006 Fri 06:25 am

Quote:

So, am I saying well when I say that new English loanwords in Turkish are written as they are phonetically spelled?


Yes thats right.

Quote:

1) Are tentatives being made to create a new word before transforming the loanword in Turkish spelling?

No. I think this has never been an issue.

Quote:

2) Who decide how a loanword is going to be written..the TDK or another standard authority? Is there an orthographic rule about such words?



The only place who has the power to decide is the TDK. They say the last word. Most new words in todays Turkish have been introduced during the language reforms in 1930's. They have replaced a few thousand words which were originated from Persian and Arabic with modern Turkish words.
Turkia was switching from Ottoman Turkish to modern Turkish. Ottoman Turkish was 50% Turkish, 30% Arabic and 20% Persian.
The reform years were different since there was no time to wait for things to change slowly. They just made up thousands of words. After the reforms, the change progressed in a natural flow as it should be. For instance if there is new term authors or intellectuals will find themselves the Turkish word and its spelling. They will use it in books, newspapers etc. If it sounds alright it will be have acceptance and if not it wont. There are countless words that authors were using (after the 1940's till today) but the words were not accepted. Therefor in some old dated books we can see some words that look like a modern word but was keept off from the language.
Even though the change from Ottoman Turkish to Modern Turkish progressed in its natural flow after the 1940's still it was very fast. This means we can't easly read a book that has been written in the 1940, 1950 or even 1960. Many books that are written before 1960 look like a foreign language now. Of course it depends on the time. For instance our "National Anthem" is written in 1921 and is very hard to understand for the man on street. Of course we teach its meaning at schools so people understand what it says.

Loanwords don't follow most gramatical rules in Turkish. For instance they don't follow the vowel harmony rules.

Example: 'domates' and 'patates' have both back vowels and front vowels.

But they follow the syllabling rules which is very important because we generate the sounds according syllables. Our syllabling rules can be found here:

SYLLABLING - A Basic Issue Of Turkish Pronunciation
http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_6_1466

I have formulized the rules in this thread.

Quote:

3) There seems that once a word is 'made' Turkish everyone begins writing that word in that form in Turkey...even the media (newspapers, TV and websites)?

I believe that media promote language and make words acceptable by people. In Maltese for instance most of the loanwords tend to be left as they are originally in English since the media do not promote the Maltese version of them. Since Malta is officially bilingual (Maltese and English), the Maltese people are very familiar with English words and they find it difficult to write English loanwords in Maltese orthography (for example "rawndebawt" for the English "roundabout") and so most of them use "roundabout" written in inverted commas or in italics.



When it is clear how to pronounce the word in Turkish then there is only one way to write it. Turkish is a phonetically language. So we write as we speak. Assuming there is a Turkish primary school kid at the age of ten. Again lets assume the kid has never seen or heard the Turkish words kondüktör or karantina in his life. We give him a piece of paper and a pen and then tell him to write kondüktör and karantina and the kid will write them correctly without having seen the word before in his entire life. You could test by yourself if you come to Turkey. I think most kids have never seen the word kondüktör as it is so uncommon.

Quote:

4) Isn't there a period of time where people use both words (the word as it is written in English and the same word in Turkish), because they see the new word written in Turkish strange (as Deli is saying)?



No there is no such time. We write as we speak and we speak as we write.

Quote:

5) Which do you think that Turkish people accept first - a new word created in Turkish or a loanword given Turkish spelling?


A loanword will be accepted first. TDK is introducing hundreds of Turkish replacements for loanwords but very few of them get acceptance by the public.

But if the word is derived from another word with constructive suffixes then it will have acceptance very fast and without a problem since all the constructive suffixes are known by Turks and their meaning is clear.

These are constructive suffixes. They make a new words either from a noun or verb. All of them have their own meaning.

-ci, : a person who is doing a job related to xxx (striptiz > striptizci)
-lik,: something that is for xxx (sportmen > sportmenlik)
-li, : something with xxx (sosis > sosisli)
-sız,: something without xxx (sezaryen > sezaryensiz)
-si, : something that is like xxx (plastik > plastikimsi)
-gen,: a person or thing that has the feature to xxx
-giç,: a persons occupation who is doing the job that is called to xxx

example 1:
röntgenci :a voyeur, peeping Tom

As you see here the suffix -ci has served to make a new word fron röntgen (roentgen, x-ray). We also use the word röntgen in its normal medical meaning. This is a good example how public makes up new words.

example 1:
We have the word 'matematik'. Now do we again turn to English and wait to tell us how to call a mathematician? No, we don't. We say 'mathematikçi'. Again the same suffix has served well.

When mobile phone first arrived nobody has made the final desicion on how to call them. The public already new how to call them. The man on the street made up the word "cep telefonu" (pocket phone) and this is it. This is the Turkish way of creating new words.

10.       tpace
9 posts
 03 Mar 2006 Fri 05:50 pm

Thanks Erdinc and Deli_kizin.

The fact that Turkish is a phonetically language (you write as you speak) and that your country is not bilingual (including English), I think that people accept these loanwords and consider them as Turkish much more easier than Maltese. The latter are familiar with English words and see them strange when they are written in Maltese, so they tend to leave the words as they are in English. Some stations/newspapers use the Maltese version of them but people still find it difficult to write them. English loanwords are entering the Maltese language quite rapidly.

It still remains a question for me when you say that almost 1% of the Turkish loanwords are left written as they originally are in English (like web, chat and show).

a) Is it the TDK who decided to leave such words like this?
b) If yes on what purposes? Why have not they been written in Turkish like most of the other borrowed words?

c) When you write this 'English' version of a word do you write it in italics or in inverted commas?

d) Modern words like those from Technology, Science and Music are all being given Turkish orthography or is there an amount of them left as they are in English?

e) Regarding the msn users and the 13-17 years old people, is it clear like that when you tell me that people from 20 years of age (or even a bit younger) start writing 'good' Turkish? Since they have been using 'wrong' English for almost 5 years don't they get familiar with this type of writing and continue using it?

I think that teenagers and people of this age are much more familiar with English than adults. So do they still accept English loanwords written in Turkish or leave such words written as they are in English?

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