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-ce and -ince suffix
(14 Messages in 2 pages - View all)
[1] 2
1.       izah
107 posts
 04 Oct 2009 Sun 03:21 am

Ý´ll tried to figure out all the meanings of the -ce/-ca suffix. I come upon this a lot when I try to read turkish, so I wonder whether I understand well, or not.
I will sum up here what I collected, would somebody like to correct me and add the meanings I mýssed?
Thanks a lot in advance!

-ce/-ca/-çe/-ça

1.
rather, -(ish)ly:
hoþça = pleasantly
çocukça = childish
soðukça = rather cold

2.
language of ...
Hollandaca, Norveççe

3.
In opinion of (somebody)
Bence
Erkan´ca

4.
gerundive (verb + -dik) + çe
different meanings...
gittikçe = gradually
oldukça = rather
as long as, whenever: dikkatlý sürdükçe, arabamý kullanabilirsin
unless (in a negative sentence): sen baðýrmadýkça, duyamam.

5.
verb + (y)in + ce
I´m not sure about this one at all. Maybe its just one single suffix ´ince´ in stead of in + ce... After a lot of reading I think I understand the meaning, but me, myself, I shouldnt know when to use it because for me it looks similar to other suffýxes...

Examples I found:
Akþam olunca iþten döndü = when it was evening he came back from work
Zamaný gelince göreceksiniz = when the time will be there you will see
Onu anlayýnca sustu = when he understood he remained silent.
Onlarýn yanýna gelince arabayý durdurdu = when the car was next to them it stoped

Maybe my englýsh translations arent very beautýfull, but I trýed to look for one kýnd of trnaslation: I choose the ´when ...´ type. Ýf this is right and I understood these sentences right I wonder when to use thýs suffýx and when the gerundive or the -en/-an suffix of the verb....?
Ý found this sentences as well (ýn my chýldrens books:

Onlarý gören kurbaða suya atlýyordu = when the frog saw them he jumped in the water


Kuþannesinin kanatlarý altýna sýðýnýnca ormadan gelen seslerin dinmesini bekler = when he ýs having shelter under birdmothers wings he waýts for the voýces comýng from the forest to stop.

In this last sentence you have all three forms I mentioned above...! When do you use wých one??

For example:
when I want to say:
´the týme that is coming´
which one do I need:

zamaný gelince
zamanýn gelmesi
gelen zaman


Greetings from a confused learner

2.       gernas
58 posts
 04 Oct 2009 Sun 03:38 am

"gelen zaman"  should be the answer..

what u have learnt is maybe more than a teacher of turkish can explain...

 

 



Edited (10/4/2009) by gernas

3.       izah
107 posts
 08 Oct 2009 Thu 02:49 pm

Does somebody have a more extensive reply on thýs material?

thnx ýn advance!



Edited (10/8/2009) by izah

4.       scalpel
1472 posts
 08 Oct 2009 Thu 05:02 pm

 

Quoting izah

Ý´ll tried to figure out all the meanings of the -ce/-ca suffix. I come upon this a lot when I try to read turkish, so I wonder whether I understand well, or not.
I will sum up here what I collected, would somebody like to correct me and add the meanings I mýssed?
Thanks a lot in advance!

-ce/-ca/-çe/-ça

1.
rather, -(ish)ly: (noun+ca = adverb/adjective)
hoþça = pleasantly
çocukça = childish => childishly (çok çocukça davrandý = he/she acted very childishly)
soðukça = rather cold => coldly (soðukça davrandý= he/she acted coldly)

2.
language of ...
Hollandaca, Norveççe

3.
In opinion of (somebody)
Bence
Erkan´ca

4.
gerundive (verb + -dik) + çe (verb+dik+ce => adverb)
different meanings...
gittikçe = gradually
oldukça = rather
as long as, whenever: dikkatlý sürdükçe, arabamý kullanabilirsin
unless (in a negative sentence): sen baðýrmadýkça, duyamam. 


5.
verb + (y)in + ce
I´m not sure about this one at all. Maybe its just one single suffix ´ince´ in stead of in + ce... After a lot of reading I think I understand the meaning, but me, myself, I shouldnt know when to use it because for me it looks similar to other suffýxes...

(1) gelince => when coming (senin evine gelince=>when coming to your house)
(2) gelince => when (person/thing) come(s) //came

(gelince göreceksin =>you will see when you come)
Examples I found:
Akþam olunca iþten döndü = when it was evening (when evening came)he came back from work
Zamaný gelince göreceksiniz = when the time will be there you will see (you will see when the time comes)
Onu anlayýnca sustu = when he understood he remained silent.
Onlarýn yanýna gelince arabayý durdurdu = when the car was next to them it stoped

Maybe my englýsh translations arent very beautýfull, but I trýed to look for one kýnd of trnaslation: I choose the ´when ...´ type. Ýf this is right and I understood these sentences right I wonder when to use thýs suffýx and when the gerundive or the -en/-an suffix of the verb....?
Ý found this sentences as well (ýn my chýldrens books:

Onlarý gören kurbaða suya atlýyordu = when the frog saw them he jumped in the water


Kuþannesinin kanatlarý altýna sýðýnýnca ormadan gelen seslerin dinmesini bekler = when he ýs having shelter under birdmothers wings he waýts for the voýces comýng from the forest to stop.

In this last sentence you have all three forms I mentioned above...! When do you use wých one??

For example:
when I want to say:
´the týme that is coming´
which one do I need:

zamaný gelince
zamanýn gelmesi
gelen zaman


Greetings from a confused learner

 

 Hope this helps.

5.       scalpel
1472 posts
 08 Oct 2009 Thu 05:10 pm

..missed something...

onlarca, yüzlerce, binlerce,etc.

yüzlerce adam = hundreds of men

onlarca problem = tens of problems

(öldürmek için)milyonlarca sebep=millions of reasons (to kill) Big smile

6.       izah
107 posts
 08 Oct 2009 Thu 07:59 pm

Yes that helps a lot! thank you very much!

7.       izah
107 posts
 08 Oct 2009 Thu 08:03 pm

And I´ll try to make up some sentences with -ince, and the gerund and the gerundive and will post them here for correction

8.       scalpel
1472 posts
 09 Oct 2009 Fri 04:13 am

 

Quoting izah



Maybe my englýsh translations arent very beautýfull, but I trýed to look for one kýnd of trnaslation: I choose the ´when ...´ type. Ýf this is right and I understood these sentences right I wonder when to use thýs suffýx and when the gerundive or the -en/-an suffix of the verb....? (it is not easy to explain it using English grammar rules but I will give a go...and I am afraid it will be a bit complicated...) 
Ý found this sentences as well (ýn my chýldrens books:

Onlarý gören kurbaða suya atlýyordu = when the frog saw them he jumped in the water

verb+en/an = verb+ing /present participle (noun/adjective) (since they are really adjectives,they are used before all nouns in the same way that adjectives are used)

for example, "yeþil kurbaða" (=green frog) and "gelen kurbaða" are formed in the same way: adj+noun

I hope the following examples will help you more.

yüksek ateþle(1) baþlayan(2) hastalýk(3) = a disease(3)beginning(2)with high fever(1)

borulardan(1) kaçan(2) gaz(3) = gas(3) escaping(2) from the pipes(1)

kumlu toprakta(1) yetiþen(2) aðaç (3) = a tree(3) growing(2) in sandy soil(1)

Now let´s try to put your sentence in English:

onlarý(1) gören(2) kurbaða(3) suya atlýyordu(4) = (every) frog(3) seeing(2) them(1) was jumping in the water(4)

 


Kuþannesinin kanatlarý altýna sýðýnýnca ormadan gelen seslerin dinmesini bekler = when he ýs having shelter under birdmothers wings he waýts for the voýces comýng from the forest to stop.
(a correction: kuþannesinin => kuþ, annesinin)

=>bird when sheltering under the wings of its mother,waits for the sounds coming from the forest to stop.

annesi.n.in kanatlarý (wings of his/her/its mother)

sesler.in dinme.s.i (stop of the sounds)

are noun compounds (noun compounds used so widely in Turkish)

why dinmesi takes another -i? (dinmesini)

Because it is direct object here. 
In this last sentence you have all three forms I mentioned above...! When do you use wých one??  

 

 

9.       izah
107 posts
 11 Oct 2009 Sun 04:56 pm

wouw! this is really clear explained! how nice, because its really difficult for me

like the compounds, with for example two nouns, I´m allright with them, but when its with a verb/gerund its complicated for me. Probably cause in ducht there´s no equivalent... we use adverbial clauses...

 

thnx a lot again!



Edited (10/11/2009) by izah

10.       scalpel
1472 posts
 12 Oct 2009 Mon 03:48 am

 

Quoting izah

...

In this last sentence you have all three forms I mentioned above...! When do you use wých one??

For example:
when I want to say:
´the týme that is coming´
which one do I need:

zamaný gelince
zamanýn gelmesi
gelen zaman

 

You can also see -en/-an in adjective clauses answering the question who, whose,whom,which.

 

Look at these examples:

 

birden fazla çocuk(1) sahibi olan(2) anne babalar(3) =parents(3) who have(2) more than one child(1).

düþüncelerini(1) ifade eden(2) bir yazar(3) = an author(3) who expresses(2) his opinions(1).


artýk kullanýlmayan(1) yöntemler(2) = methods(2) which are no longer used(1).

bilimsel yöntemlerle(1) çözülmesi gereken(2) bir problem(3)=a problem(3) which must be solved(2) by scientific methods(1).


düþüncesi(1) sorulan(2) herkes(3) = everyone(3) whose opinion(1) is asked(2)

anne babasý(1) ölmüþ olan(2) çocuk(3) = a child(3) whose parents(1) are dead(2)

 

 

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