Quoting catwoman:

looks like this soccer player (technic???) has a very limited vocabulary, but he sure believes in higher powers .

Quoting catwoman:

looks like this soccer player (technic???) has a very limited vocabulary, but he sure believes in higher powers .

very well said Maral.

Quoting Joey:

Quoting Lapinkulta:

femme,I just translated his sentences one by one as I do in this web page.and I support his opinions.coz we all Turkish fed up with things were wanted from Turkey.few years ago many of Turks supported being a member of Eu but now... not...we dont call these nations as enemies except for they call us.now these nations as u said (armenians,gereks etc) say that Turkey is out of European geography...

u must have guessed why many Turks claps his opinions...

Quoting Joey:

Quoting irishanna:

Im really agree with lapin.Turkey is european country..QUOTE]

İ agree with Lapin totally.

And no Türkiye not just European country,its Asian country too,and that what is giving her its beauty,and should be accepted as she is.

She shouldn't be paying for who she is !

Quoting irishanna:

Im really agree with lapin.Turkey is european country...and Turkish ppl are modern,I hope they will join EU soon...

Quoting catwoman:

"heart and soul of the universe"???? and how did you get there? You must have a big imagination.

Quoting catwoman:

Turkey doesn't have any identity crisis, but it has a dilemma whether to stop lying, admit to their mistakes, let people be free in thinking (which would also imply criticizing the society and government, and we don't want that to happen), give rights to historically disadvantaged women and Kurds, etc.
Europe is just making it easier for Turkey to play the poor victim because of their own stupid games and lies.

Quoting arabianofelix:

That is why i say Turkey has an identity Crisis... are they European or Asia? They came from all the way deep in Asia to Anatolia, and tried to come into Europe... how are they European? it's the worst of things. an identity crisis...
Turkey is neither Euro nor Asian. it's middle eastern, in it's unique region of the world, the heart and soul of the universe!!!!!! and dare a person disagree?

Quoting femme_fatal:

lapinkulta
i didnt understand ur post (mainly due to ur english).
u love such texts, dont u? texts full of emotions.

if a person not from turkey takes serious this sort of opinions of such turks, he/she may think that turkey is a victim of all the nations in this world. eu humiliates turkey, greece is an enemy, armenians are evil, all the central asian countries (so falsely called cousins) do not support turkey (so they automatically become traitors), russia is a monster, usa not helpful enough. these are words i hear everytime i talk a turk. i am tired of conspiracy theories.

a turk is too much proud to join eu, even though he/she is keen on being in eu. this type of thinking is very typical to the eastern mentality: i am a proud turk, proud azer, proud kazak, etc!
i wonder if people are aware of that pride brings u nowhere. it is not a positive value that could help u build a strong society. pride = emptiness!

Quoting gezbelle:

i'm not taking any sides...

...but you said turkey is neither asian or european...then why is it trying to get into the european union then??

and if it is middle eastern...then once again, why is it trying to get into the european union???

Quoting catwoman:

I think what you really mean is that YOU have identity crisis... . Anyways, the rest of what you said has no real content to discuss, those are just your emotions, can't argue with that.

Quoting gezbelle:

i'm not taking any sides...

...but you said turkey is neither asian or european...then why is it trying to get into the european union then??

and if it is middle eastern...then once again, why is it trying to get into the european union???

Quoting arabianofelix:

it's like saying... "why do we have a UN?"

Quoting arabianofelix:

sorry gazbelle... it's merely a simple formed structure of economic unity to compete with American capitalism...

Quoting arabianofelix:

u can answer ur question by asking another question: WHY AREN'T ALL EUROPEAN COUNTRIES IN THIS UNION?

Quoting arabianofelix:

think whatever is easy for u to comprehend, i don't want u to work hard on this... no nobel peace prize is on the line...there are more important things in ur life i bet... and mine's too...

Quoting Lapinkulta:

Im sending you a new postwhich was recently presented by one of the famous Turkish soccer Technic director during a TV show;now all Turkish people clapping him coz we fed up with these EU wants from Turkish...

We are having shameful days which are really shameful…I, as a Turkish,I thought that are shameful,we are in the formation for 43 years. When we started this formulation, countries which were not in the geography,map,and they were independed into 10 or 15 years and they are talking about shameful things. It is revenge of SEVR agrement which was held in 1915 and Turkey were seperated by countries such as Uk,France,Italy,Greece. They wanna leave Lozan agreement which Turkish got back their lands.Many of them were escaped out of Turkey by Turkish people’s independent war. This is really shameful.It is really revenge of it…the tgings they are talking about, Ankara agreement,decisions about Cyprus, openings of harbours for southern cyprus,these are shameful. Turkey is a country which will manage to overcome all.This is a surroundings without weapons,it will stand alone succesfully.Turkey had been surrounded with weapons in 1915s. Turkish had showed common sense.we showed how much improved sympathy and antipathy for EU into 2 years.Because Turkish had met famine in advance but never lost their freedom and honour.

Quoting susie k:

I saw on the news this morning that the German's are opposing Turkey joining the EU.

Quoting arabianofelix:

Quoting robyn :

blah blah, haram meat is eaten. blah blah....

Quoting arabianofelix:

Quoting femme_fatal:

sorry, but i dont play eastern way

Quoting Gizli Yuz:

After Turkey became a fully westernized country in early 1900, she has been allowed to be a respected member of any organization of Western civilization, NATO membership, which is IMHO the hardest thing to be, included.

Always keep in mind that modern Turkey is widely accepted as a member of western civilization, even though she's traditionally not European. Just like Russia, Japan, or Israel.

As for the EU membership, It would be nice, as Cetin Altan says, If we were to talk about the Europe of, for instance, Golettes, Paul Eluards, Picassos who were all great personalities whose ideas still enlighten the entire world. But thanks to the Internet, we see how conservative and middle age minded the working classes of Europe are.

Quoting CANLI:

robyn ?

What do you mean by İslamic country ?
İs it bad to be İslamic country ?!

For example Egypt is an İslamic country,but it even has Muslims less than Türkiya has,we have many Christians Egyptians,not knowing the percentage exactly,but maybe %25,%30 of Egyptians are Christians.

There are lots of women wearing scarves,but again woman in islamic dress can sit next to a woman in a miniskirt and low cut top without passing comment,
And,here too,if u only have an islamic marriage it is not legally binding.it is also necessary to have a registry office/formal ceremony.
But here,only for Muslims,the law allow bigamy because İslam allowing up to four wives if each accepts it and is provided for adequately.
But for none Muslims,Christians i mean,the law is not allowing it cause its not in their religion.

So that makes it İslamic country or not then ?

So i don't understand what you mean by İslamic country.
İ'm not criticizing,i am inquiring to know what does West means by islamic country?

We are İslamic,but we are having it this way.

And what is haram meat,which is not pork ?
Only pork is haram as i know,what is haram beaf and so ?

Quoting CANLI:

robyn ?

What do you mean by İslamic country ?
İs it bad to be İslamic country ?!

For example Egypt is an İslamic country,but it even has Muslims less than Türkiya has,we have many Christians Egyptians,not knowing the percentage exactly,but maybe %25,%30 of Egyptians are Christians.

There are lots of women wearing scarves,but again woman in islamic dress can sit next to a woman in a miniskirt and low cut top without passing comment,
And,here too,if u only have an islamic marriage it is not legally binding.it is also necessary to have a registry office/formal ceremony.
But here,only for Muslims,the law allow bigamy because İslam allowing up to four wives if each accepts it and is provided for adequately.
But for none Muslims,Christians i mean,the law is not allowing it cause its not in their religion.

So that makes it İslamic country or not then ?

So i don't understand what you mean by İslamic country.
İ'm not criticizing,i am inquiring to know what does West means by islamic country?

We are İslamic,but we are having it this way.

And what is haram meat,which is not pork ?
Only pork is haram as i know,what is haram beaf and so ?

Quoting robyn :

the majority also do not follow this in the same way that an arabic or strict muslim does,many women do not wear headscarves for example,alcohol is drunk(the quantity of which is irrelevant), haram meat is eaten.

Quoting femme_fatal:

Quoting arabianofelix:

first of all, i asked that you first look athe meaning of the three words... NOT in a mini dictionary, in an encyclopedia... a human is nothing without them!

Quoting catwoman:

This is what makes Turkey better then other middle-eastern countries. Also, as in western countries, Turkey is supposed to be secular. It is striving to be, but not always is and it's actually less and less so. The government must be constantly reminded by the army of keeping religion out. This is not an acceptable thing in a modern, democratic country. Society - is intolerant towards other religions or atheism, other sexual orientations, and they don't form a true democracy.

Quoting arabianofelix:

THIS coming elections, the Turks will decide! Do they want to be in European Athiest Secularism, or Freedom to practice islamic traditional freedom?

Quoting catwoman:

What are the examples of 'middle age mindedness' of working class Europe? Let's not get emotional here, but talk with reason and facts.
There are some things I agree with you on. The EU is not all-good and all-perfect. BUT, it has the best developed economy and most freedom, tolerance, laws that are reasonable and enforced - basically it is civilized. It is not perfect and bad things are happening there, the system doesn't work all the time, but it is so far the best system possible in the human societies.
Turkey is a great candidate for membership mainly because it is based on capitalistic economy. This is what makes Turkey better then other middle-eastern countries. Also, as in western countries, Turkey is supposed to be secular. It is striving to be, but not always is and it's actually less and less so. The government must be constantly reminded by the army of keeping religion out. This is not an acceptable thing in a modern, democratic country. Society - is intolerant towards other religions or atheism, other sexual orientations, and they don't form a true democracy. Society is manipulated and brainwashed by the media and government and lacks independent opinion, it does not constitute a check and balance force for the government. Women and minorities don't have equal rights. And a lot of the country is underdeveloped. Places outside Istanbul and the west coast are really in miserable condition. No good roads, nor jobs, no education, no law enforcement and no appropriate health care. In the eastern lands, there is still feudal system.
Religious radicals and nationalism are becoming more popular and these two are a serious threat to the society.
I think that Turkey needs a lot of changes and improvement which can only make it better and have nothing to do with losing values or traditions. I think it has a lot of potential and is one of few countries in the world that are so much on the right path to a better future. I hope it won't be stopped by Turkish pride and stubbornness or by Europeans' playing political games.

Quoting mheart72:

good point Canli.Please femme fatal be careful with your words. Use them responsibly.

Quoting robyn :

the thing is that islam or any other religion shouldn't be forced down people's throats..by having a government linked with religion i think this will only increase any intolerances for other religions..but then this is just my opinion...im not talking about religion anymore

Quoting susie k:

I know that we English are very proud of our history ie the Royal Navy! Maybe not of a lot of other things though.

Quoting catwoman:

That's a very good point, absolutely. Government by any means shouldn't be directed by any religious dogmas, at least in modern, civilized, democratic countries. The reason Europe developed so much is because they diverted from religious ruling to industrial age governed by reason, and left it to people's private preferences what they want believe in or do in their free time.

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting robyn :

the thing is that islam or any other religion shouldn't be forced down people's throats..by having a government linked with religion i think this will only increase any intolerances for other religions..but then this is just my opinion...im not talking about religion anymore

Quote:

İ believe i had a post here,regarding this point,and btw,i was talking about one of the modern, civilized, democratic countries in the West,not about Türkiye.
About France !

The point is,people should be included all kind of people,even Muslims who live in one of the modern, civilized, democratic western countries.

Quote:

Quote:

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting Joey:

I would also add WW1.We speak of the British Army and Navy in Scotland and we owe them a huge debt. It is the politicians who sometimes land them in impossible situations.

Quoting CANLI:

But at least we can wear and say what ever we like,and they don't ban us for this!
So ironic!

Quoting Lapinkulta:

...if he said that france had genocide in algeria,would he get nobel award...

Quoting Trudy:

Quote:

And again, don't misunderstand me, freedom of speech to me does NOT mean everyone can say anything they like. There is always something like politeness and common sense. Though I am happy to live in Holland, I don't think 'our' way of thinking is holy and the best there is.

Quote:

Quote:

Quoting Lapinkulta:

I know where is the flemish part,walloons etc...and where Belgium is.so it is heart of EU so when an european talks about freedom in Turkey,firstly they have to think about freedome in EU..

Quoting Trudy:

Canli, please don't misunderstand me, I'm not criticizing or arguing, just wondering. You're from Egypt, aren't you? Can you really say outloud in public what you think? I mean, can you say in public your president sucks? That he's a moron?

Why do I ask this? Because I can say similar things here and no one will harm me or sue me. The only thing I can't say are discriminating things (like all X are Y)- at least I can't say them in all words I choose.

And again, don't misunderstand me, freedom of speech to me does NOT mean everyone can say anything they like. There is always something like politeness and common sense. Though I am happy to live in Holland, I don't think 'our' way of thinking is holy and the best there is.

Quoting robyn :

actually i know several people that have visited egypt n when they wore bikinis they were told to go n put more clothes on..not sure how that is being able to wear whatever u want..

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting CANLI:

You don't see us as a free democratinc country,but you say you are free and democratic countries,and want us to learn from your experience to be a modern and democratic ,civilized country,and lose our free,private choices ?

You just didn't try being rejected for your believes,or for the things you wear Trudy.
Put yourself in those girls shoes back in France,how do you think they feel in a so called free country ,which they went there to enjoy their freedom ?

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting CANLI:

Then they are not in the place to accept or reject Türkiye from joining the EU,because they are not that perfect themselves,
Right ?

Quoting aenigma x:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but where in Islam does it say it is COMPULSORY to wear a headscalf? I understood it to be a (sexist) cultural decision.

Quoting aenigma x:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but where in Islam does it say it is COMPULSORY to wear a headscalf? I understood it to be a (sexist) cultural decision.

Quoting azade:

Quoting CANLI:

Scarf to us part of our religion,its not some cloth we wear,its part of our believes,how can we gave up our believes when we change the place we are in ?
As if you say,when i leave my country,and be in another,i can stop fasting Ramazan,i can stop praying.
What kind of believe is that ?!
İts not like changing my hair style ''which make me wonder where is RAİN ''its like giving up part of your believes.

They respect the rules ofcourse,but rules shouldn't interfear with their believes or personal choices.

But right from the begining,why there is such a rule preventing Muslims from wearing headscarves ?
Only Muslims wear head scarves,so this rule has been put for Muslims,right ?

Quoting aenigma x:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but where in Islam does it say it is COMPULSORY to wear a headscalf? I understood it to be a (sexist) cultural decision.

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting azade:

24:31 "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty [...]"

It says should, as is ought to. Yani it's not mandatory.

Quoting robyn :

Quoting azade:

Quote:

And BTW, please do not generalize all Europeans. If a European says anything about 1 Turk, you get mad and say don't generalize!

Quote:

Quoting Lapinkulta:

OMG!!!! what have happenede to my forum topic....you all have started to discuss islam..

Quoting CANLI:

Surat El Nur,Ayat 31.

And it say,tell the Muslim Women,not they should do,telling is an order.

And look at it this way,lying is forbiden in all religions too.
Are all people honest ?
Same like wearing headscarf.

Quoting robyn :

Quoting CANLI:

Surat El Nur,Ayat 31.

And it say,tell the Muslim Women,not they should do,telling is an order.

And look at it this way,lying is forbiden in all religions too.
Are all people honest ?
Same like wearing headscarf.

Quoting robyn :

..it tells us to cover our ornaments....QUOTE]

Ouh! Then I am ok, I dont have any ornaments - my house is pretty minimist ! But I will tell my mum to throw a cover over hers !

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting CANLI:

No harm done then

İ'm not Türk,but,my opinion about EU is to accept Türkiye as she is,its her right.
And EU countries not in a place to judge others.

As jesus 'AS' said,who is not sinful,can throw the rock !

Quoting aenigma x:

Quoting aenigma x:

Quote:

Quote:

Quoting Rain:

we should learn to say WE .. not Me..

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting Rain:

long time.. not aroun..

You guys talkin so far from tha post..but i see tht u guys not discuss like racin with somethin..

aLLah created people...send many prophets to show right way.. who belive got paradice after die.. all prophets teachin allah and isLam.. only people chnged the books tht allah sent.. they chnge it fo theirslf wich way is easy fo them..

Kuran say tht women body only fo women husbnd.. and u should cover ya head like canli said..this is not only Quran say.. all religion books sayin.. but all books chnge only Qran never chnge..so if ya read qoran sure u guys can see very clear..

second..isLam not the religion force people to do somethin.. everythin on ya hands to see wich is rght or wrong.. 3..if ya not wear hairscarf is not mean u r not muslim or u r bad..allah give money fo the people who is muslim or not muslim( like japanese people like usa like qorean) aLLah said who want knowlege i ll give directly.. who want money if i want then only u ll get it..

Qran say ya cant drink alcohol.. some muslim drink also.. but we cant say anythin..this is their way to get paradice or hell.. but the rules cant drink.. cant play gamble..yes people dunno anythin about isLam who never read qoran ..so we cant say they are stupid or idiot..we should teach them why like this..

isLam the 1 of religion cant kill innocent people..cant behave bad to the people.. but in israel.. u can see many people say tht their books write u can kill innocent babies..cant see many diffrnce..france kill many innocent in cezair..holland kill many innocent in indonesia.. uK kill many innocent in malaysia.. can u show me..Turkey did? dont think so.. if ya can show i would like to see and listen..

time to not fight..time to learn and share somethin each other to make more nice world..we should learn where we doin mistake muslim or other religions.. we should learn to say WE .. not Me..

Quote:

Quoting robyn : Quoting Elisa: Quoting Lapinkulta: And again, don't misunderstand me, freedom of speech to me does NOT mean everyone can say anything they like. There is always something like politeness and common sense. Though I am happy to live in Holland, I don't think 'our' way of thinking is holy and the best there is. what about in a hospital which is in flemish part, could u be treared well?or could u shout that u are proud of being dutch in flemish region?? I'm afraid I'm missing the point here, what exactly do you mean by this? (just curious )

Quoting Rain:

eywallah arkadaslar..

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting Trudy:

And BTW, please do not generalize all Europeans. If a European says anything about 1 Turk, you get mad and say don't generalize!

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting aenigma x:

Please correct me if I am wrong, but where in Islam does it say it is COMPULSORY to wear a headscalf? I understood it to be a (sexist) cultural decision.

Quoting arabianofelix:

Quoting CANLI:

Quoting Trudy:

Quoting Rain:

long time.. not aroun..

You guys talkin so far from tha post..but i see tht u guys not discuss like racin with somethin..

aLLah created people...send many prophets to show right way.. who belive got paradice after die.. all prophets teachin allah and isLam.. only people chnged the books tht allah sent.. they chnge it fo theirslf wich way is easy fo them..

Kuran say tht women body only fo women husbnd.. and u should cover ya head like canli said..this is not only Quran say.. all religion books sayin.. but all books chnge only Qran never chnge..so if ya read qoran sure u guys can see very clear..

second..isLam not the religion force people to do somethin.. everythin on ya hands to see wich is rght or wrong.. 3..if ya not wear hairscarf is not mean u r not muslim or u r bad..allah give money fo the people who is muslim or not muslim( like japanese people like usa like qorean) aLLah said who want knowlege i ll give directly.. who want money if i want then only u ll get it..

Qran say ya cant drink alcohol.. some muslim drink also.. but we cant say anythin..this is their way to get paradice or hell.. but the rules cant drink.. cant play gamble..yes people dunno anythin about isLam who never read qoran ..so we cant say they are stupid or idiot..we should teach them why like this..

isLam the 1 of religion cant kill innocent people..cant behave bad to the people.. but in israel.. u can see many people say tht their books write u can kill innocent babies..cant see many diffrnce..france kill many innocent in cezair..holland kill many innocent in indonesia.. uK kill many innocent in malaysia.. can u show me..Turkey did? dont think so.. if ya can show i would like to see and listen..

time to not fight..time to learn and share somethin each other to make more nice world..we should learn where we doin mistake muslim or other religions.. we should learn to say WE .. not Me..

Quoting Rain:

eywallah arkadaslar..

Quoting Lapinkulta:

thanks god ,argument finishedDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Quoting arabianofelix:

Quoting Trudy: