Turkey |
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Turkey in EU
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| 50. |
15 Dec 2006 Fri 08:50 am |
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Quoting femme_fatal: Quoting arabianofelix: Quoting femme_fatal: lapinkulta
i didnt understand ur post (mainly due to ur english).
u love such texts, dont u? texts full of emotions.
if a person not from turkey takes serious this sort of opinions of such turks, he/she may think that turkey is a victim of all the nations in this world. eu humiliates turkey, greece is an enemy, armenians are evil, all the central asian countries (so falsely called cousins) do not support turkey (so they automatically become traitors), russia is a monster, usa not helpful enough. these are words i hear everytime i talk a turk. i am tired of conspiracy theories.
a turk is too much proud to join eu, even though he/she is keen on being in eu. this type of thinking is very typical to the eastern mentality: i am a proud turk, proud azer, proud kazak, etc!
i wonder if people are aware of that pride brings u nowhere. it is not a positive value that could help u build a strong society. pride = emptiness! |
I totally disagree with this meaningless wording...
THE MOST UNIQUE THING ABOUT TURKS ARE THEIR PRIDE... WHO ELSE IN THE WORLD HAS SUCH PRIDE? DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT PRIDE MEANS? ANY country would envy the Turks of such a charicteristic... IT'S HONOR and DIGNITY... it seems these days no one knows the meaning of these three words...and this is the 3rd time i mention the word dignity...
If we want a free and peaceful world, if we want to make the deserts bloom and man grow to greater dignity as a human being-we can do it.
--- Eleanor Roosevelt
Our dignity is not in what we do, but what we understand.
--- George Santayana
Human rights rest on human dignity. The dignity of man is an ideal worth fighting for and worth dying for.
--- Robert Maynard
Dignity consists not in possessing honors, but in the consciousness that we deserve them.
--- Aristotle
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tell me dear, how can a pride be unique? what is its value? what does it give u? a feeling that u r better than others? lets say u r a proud person, what r u proud of? r u better than me or others?
well, i ll keep to my conclusion: pride makes u stupid and gives u nothing except for the empty feeling that makes u blind to ur own faults.
why did u quote mrs roosevelt? i dont see anyconnection of her words to the pride or honor of turks.
or is it just a show off that u know a few words of wisdom?
sorry, human dignity? i totally disagree with that quotation.
i dont agree with such philosophy, its too much abstractive, not pragmatic.
honors? honor of what? honor for what?
i dont either need any type of honors,
since i dont need to honor anything or anybody, and ohh, hmmm, dont honor me too.
i live a simple life, i live on earth as a simple human being, not up high in the sky with all the honors and pride or dignity and other blah-blah. no wonder that some nations dont cope here on earth because of living in their world of imagination.
well, what can i say? keep up to ur honors and pride and all the fantasies.
cheers |
first of all, i asked that you first look athe meaning of the three words... NOT in a mini dictionary, in an encyclopedia... a human is nothing without them!
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| 51. |
15 Dec 2006 Fri 08:57 am |
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Quoting arabianofelix: first of all, i asked that you first look athe meaning of the three words... NOT in a mini dictionary, in an encyclopedia... a human is nothing without them! |
That is YOUR opinion arabianofelix. Don't try to impose your own values on other people. Maybe YOU would be nothing without these values, but it doesn't imply anything about others.
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| 52. |
15 Dec 2006 Fri 09:05 am |
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Quoting catwoman:
This is what makes Turkey better then other middle-eastern countries. Also, as in western countries, Turkey is supposed to be secular. It is striving to be, but not always is and it's actually less and less so. The government must be constantly reminded by the army of keeping religion out. This is not an acceptable thing in a modern, democratic country. Society - is intolerant towards other religions or atheism, other sexual orientations, and they don't form a true democracy. |
HOW about we wait until the president elections?
Also, as in western countries, Turkey is supposed to be secular. It is striving to be, but not always is and it's actually less and less so.
THIS coming elections, the Turks will decide! Do they want to be in European Athiest Secularism, or Freedom to practice islamic traditional freedom?
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| 53. |
15 Dec 2006 Fri 09:09 am |
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Quoting arabianofelix: THIS coming elections, the Turks will decide! Do they want to be in European Athiest Secularism, or Freedom to practice islamic traditional freedom? |
I'm afraid that they will choose the so called Islamic Freedom... as dictated by the tradition undoubtedly.
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| 54. |
15 Dec 2006 Fri 09:16 am |
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the word ur hiding down ur throat is called "democracy"  
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| 55. |
15 Dec 2006 Fri 09:23 am |
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the thing is that islam or any other religion shouldn't be forced down people's throats..by having a government linked with religion i think this will only increase any intolerances for other religions..but then this is just my opinion...im not talking about religion anymore
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| 56. |
15 Dec 2006 Fri 09:25 am |
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Quoting catwoman:
What are the examples of 'middle age mindedness' of working class Europe? Let's not get emotional here, but talk with reason and facts.
There are some things I agree with you on. The EU is not all-good and all-perfect. BUT, it has the best developed economy and most freedom, tolerance, laws that are reasonable and enforced - basically it is civilized. It is not perfect and bad things are happening there, the system doesn't work all the time, but it is so far the best system possible in the human societies.
Turkey is a great candidate for membership mainly because it is based on capitalistic economy. This is what makes Turkey better then other middle-eastern countries. Also, as in western countries, Turkey is supposed to be secular. It is striving to be, but not always is and it's actually less and less so. The government must be constantly reminded by the army of keeping religion out. This is not an acceptable thing in a modern, democratic country. Society - is intolerant towards other religions or atheism, other sexual orientations, and they don't form a true democracy. Society is manipulated and brainwashed by the media and government and lacks independent opinion, it does not constitute a check and balance force for the government. Women and minorities don't have equal rights. And a lot of the country is underdeveloped. Places outside Istanbul and the west coast are really in miserable condition. No good roads, nor jobs, no education, no law enforcement and no appropriate health care. In the eastern lands, there is still feudal system.
Religious radicals and nationalism are becoming more popular and these two are a serious threat to the society.
I think that Turkey needs a lot of changes and improvement which can only make it better and have nothing to do with losing values or traditions. I think it has a lot of potential and is one of few countries in the world that are so much on the right path to a better future. I hope it won't be stopped by Turkish pride and stubbornness or by Europeans' playing political games. |
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/ would be a good example of "middle age mindedness" of Europe at its worst.
Your analyze looks quite good to me. I respect your view. The point is, however, that how many european citizens are able to do such a good study over Turkey and world politics to decide the case of the Turkish membership.
Anyway, with or without the EU, Turkey will be more modern and more wealthy country in the middle east.
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| 57. |
15 Dec 2006 Fri 09:42 am |
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Quoting mheart72: good point Canli.Please femme fatal be careful with your words. Use them responsibly. |
femme_fatal is from kazakhstan but she has problem with eastern mentality and care about Turkey's Eu membership,why...why u are so aggressive on this topic so much...I have never had problem of being member of EU or not.Both of them are ok for me like many Turks in Turkey...
best regards
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| 58. |
15 Dec 2006 Fri 06:49 pm |
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Quoting robyn : the thing is that islam or any other religion shouldn't be forced down people's throats..by having a government linked with religion i think this will only increase any intolerances for other religions..but then this is just my opinion...im not talking about religion anymore |
That's a very good point, absolutely. Government by any means shouldn't be directed by any religious dogmas, at least in modern, civilized, democratic countries. The reason Europe developed so much is because they diverted from religious ruling to industrial age governed by reason, and left it to people's private preferences what they want believe in or do in their free time.
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| 59. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 07:00 am |
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"Ignorance doesn't kill you, but it does make you sweat a lot, while truth becomes lost in the turmoil of arguments. Afterall, behind every argument is someone's ignorance."
We can go on and on... it will only be personal... and always will the heart take over the brain. We are here to learn and express our love to Turkey and it is up to its citizens to make its decision and we are here to love it, or to leave it...
What we think about Turkiye means nothing to its people. They decide upon what they think is good for them; whether is good or not for the rest of the world. Afterall, that's we have borders..
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| 60. |
16 Dec 2006 Sat 08:31 am |
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There's a special cemetary in istanbul for President's and Prime Minister's that try to lead Turkey away from secularism. I think Büyükanit will easily be able to keep the ploiticians in line.
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