Turkey |
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Turkey cannot turn its back on democracy
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| 190. |
10 May 2007 Thu 09:51 pm |
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Quoting CANLI: Quoting leander: One cannot talk about democracy in a country where people have to live according to the rules of a certain religion.Islamist states cannot be called democracies and our oh-so-democrat islamists who keep harping on about democracy, admitt democracy is not the aim,it is just a tool to get them there where they wanna be.Which is an islamist state thats run by Sheria.And this is islamist-fashism.
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When people lie,does that made lying right ?
Helal ?!!!!!!
When applying İslam in a wrong way,then what is wrong is the İslam or the methods,hidden agenda ?!!
And btw,what do you think inspired Westen Democratic countries while putting their own laws ?! 
Did they all invent it ?so its all some how very much close to each other,they all got the border lines in one time by hidden inspiration?
But not from religions,No ?!!!
Cannt be ,huh ?!!!
You just memorize,you dont analyze !
Shaking head !!!
And btw,take care of what you are calling fascism !
You can call system fascism ,but NOT religion! |
Learn the difference between 'islam' and 'islamism/islamist', -thats obviousely used as a political term and has nothing to do with islam itself-) before you dare to accuse people of disrespecting their own religion in a threatening tone. No wonder that kind of intolerant atmosphere, where likes of you are ready to treathen everyone who don't sound islamist enough for Arab standarts, created terrorist organisations like 'Muslim Brothers', trademarks of Egypt..They are the ones that disrespect and tarnish our beautiful religion.Not the turkish perception of islam which has an emphasis on tolerance ,undertsanding, peace, love of God and love of what God created, and don't reduce islam to just a piece of clothing.
Quote: You dont analyse you just memorize. |
I would analyze your post but i couldn't understand it.I'll do it when i find a a Canli To English Dictionary.
I have yet to hear anything from you that is a sign of analytical thinking.If you think parroting what you read on islamist Arab media about Turkey's secular system impresses anyone here, you are sadly mistaken.
I don't want you to get wasted here my oh-so-analytical-thinking friend.Instead of constantly bashing the turkish democracy which is the only democracy in the muslim world, you'd better use your 'analytical thinking abilities' to save Arab 'democracies' from the pathetic situation they are in.Start with your own country.
I hate to break it to you, but here in Turkey we are not really interested in getting advice from Arab islamists, on their profound(!) experiences on democracy
So, give yourself a rest.
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10 May 2007 Thu 11:07 pm |
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leander,
im forced, i have absolutely no choice but to say: BRAVO!
you're genious! i bow my little head before you!
excellent post!
may God bless turkey with people like you!
i absolutely loved your post!
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11 May 2007 Fri 01:26 am |
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Thank you femme_fatal
Evidently there are MANY people that think and feel the way i do,i knew that they are out there, but seing the incredible crowds on the 14th and 29th april, DESPITE the discouragement of the rally by the mass media, gave me even more hope for our future.
On Sunday another rally, this time in Izmir! On Mothers Day, millions will visit Zübeyde Hanim's (Atatürk's Mother) house.
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| 193. |
11 May 2007 Fri 03:00 am |
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Quoting leander: Thank you femme_fatal
Evidently there are MANY people that think and feel the way i do,i knew that they are out there, but seing the incredible crowds on the 14th and 29th april, DESPITE the discouragement of the rally by the mass media, gave me even more hope for our future.
On Sunday another rally, this time in Izmir! On Mothers Day, millions will visit Zübeyde Hanim's (Atatürk's Mother) house.
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You are hopeful but what about those whose freedoom has already been limited? What about those girls who can not enter the university campuses because of their headscarves?
I think following article explains the current stiuation in Turkey. I put it 2-3 hour ago but somebody deleted it.
Two Turkeys: Democrats vs anti-democrats
by Bulent Kenes
“Two Turkeys†has been a definition used, particularly by the foreign media, since the April 14 demonstration in Ankara’s Tandoğan Square.
According to this definition, the hundreds of thousands that converged on the square made it crystal clear that there were now two Turkeys with different lifestyles, political understandings and worldviews. That is, the Turkish nation was divided right down the middle due to the policies pursued by the Justice and Development Party (AK Party), and those who felt that their secular and modern lifestyles were under threat took to the streets and expressed their reactions to the other Turkey, which they “otherized†at the top of their lungs.
In news reports and analyses published or broadcast, a claim is being put forward that the current political team, whose roots are claimed by some to be based in Islam -- although they now have a different political understanding and agenda -- is threatening secularism, the “cement†of Turkey, and thus secularism is under threat. So how befitting is this definition and approach for the reality in Turkey?
I should note that the definition “Two Turkeys†is correct. And this situation is not only true for us today; it extends back to the first years of the republic. The only difference between today and the past is that the two Turkeys now are more closely knitted, only physically though, in their common living areas, and they are seen together more often. I should also note with great care that it would not be tantamount to separatism to call either this external division or this appearance “Two Turkeys,†since such a definition would only be a socio-political determination that is virtually impossible to deny. We should not be afraid of such a realistic determination.
In fact, the “Two Turkeys,†or possibly even more Turkeys, have always existed in Turkey. However, until recently there was only a certain segment of society that claimed all social, political, cultural and economic power and therefore occupied a far greater place in the notorious “public area†than it deserved, and as a result only that segment of the society was predominantly visible.
What was really misleading was the reflection of that appearance. And what was missing was the sight of the “other Turkey†on the stage. So what has really changed in the scene is that both Turkeys are now in plain sight.
I agree with the determination that there are “two Turkeys.†However, the naming of these two Turkeys is not at all befitting the reality in Turkey; this is obvious because these two Turkeys cannot be described as either secular versus anti-secular, modern versus Islamist or republican versus democrat. The best term to describe the pieces that make these two Turkeys is democrats versus anti-democrats.
At this point to which we have arrived, the Turkish nation doesn’t have any problems with secularism, modernism or republicanism. Turkey’s people favor a secularism that has universal qualities, a real modernism and a real republicanism. Furthermore, they vitally need these, as they don’t exist in Turkey within universal norms. And this demand is above all made by the morally conservative, politically progressive religious segments of society.
But, in addition, this repressed segment has been harboring grudges against efforts to empty these terms -- which is against democracy’s tenets and against a certain minority’s attempt to make them into a means to tyrannize the majority.
What is opposed is a skewed understanding of secularism that dauntlessly purports to possess the right to interfere in the religious preferences of individuals, to push everything religious out of the social sphere and to deprive hundreds of thousands of their most fundamental right to education only because of their religious preference, as a result of which they decide to dress in a certain way.
What is also opposed is the imposition of a monolithic modernism at a time when post-modernism, where individual preferences and differences are prioritized, is the dominant element and a despotic understanding of modernism that cannot stand lifestyles other than the one that could be categorized as that single type.
And moreover, what is opposed is the crooked elitist, Jacobin and oligarchic republicanism that overlooks people’s expectations and preferences and insults their will.
Briefly, the “two Turkeys†in Turkey are actually two camps: One camp has democrats who support secularism, modernism and republicanism, which is the soul of democracy; and the anti-democrats. The anti-democrats empty concepts like secularism and republicanism, which everyone needs like air and water to formulize the co-habitation and peaceful coexistence that preserves differences, and isolate them from democracy to exploit them as a means for repression and subversion. What is really opposed is this attempt to turn these vital concepts into a crooked means to perpetrate the above-mentioned atrocities.
The reality in Turkey today is not secularism and the republic being under threat. Just the opposite -- the thing whose existence is threatened by much paranoia is democracy itself, just as has befallen us four times during the brief history of our young democracy.
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