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Murat the Rat - a dudu tale
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20.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 07:29 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

There you go, 70% is nurture - so if you keep on banging onto women that they are sex objects, are you surprised that they end up objectifying themselves? I am really shocked that you put NO blame on the culture! You just put the entire responsibility for this mentality on the indivituals. People behave very differently from culture to culture, therefore.... the culture is to be blamed!

 

Who is responsible for "the culture" - this is a complex question! You can´t say one thing or another. Cultures change over time in a fluid way, you do not notice these changes in individuals, for each individual, what she/he believs seems to be "natural". 50 years ago a woman had no right in England to have a credit card on her own and if 100 years ago a woman was burnt alive for "provoking a man" (=witchcraft), many women also thought it was right! This woman hating did not magically disappear these days, it just changed its form to more subtle ways that can be manufactured and sold by capitalism. Do you think that the massive objectification, increasingly more pornographic media on a daily basis do not affect girls since very early?

 

Look, the fact is that at this point the culture has a certain dominant ideology and all men and women are influenced by it. So even women who work in some places, especially when they are paid to write very specific articles, of course they will write these things - it will not occur to them as somehting outrageous. It takes courage to oppose the dominant ideology that you´ve been raised with and that being all you´ve ever seen. Similarly to people who grew up in an islamic country leaving Islam!

 

There is this common bullshit line sold by capitalists saying that capitalism only offers ´goods´, and you are ´free to choose´ not to buy them. Sounds pretty convincing, doesn´t it?

 

The bottom line is that we live in a male dominant culture, men still own the majority of everything (like 80-90%!). And, male dominant ideological foundation is the foundation of our countries. That means that some beliefs are still rooted in people that are beneficial to men and harmful to women. This ideological foundation is being continuously perpetuated by our media, by pornography, by the kind of culture we live in, by the way things are set up. In a way, men are also ´victims´ of this system, as many normal men end up having misogynistic attitudes after being raised in this system. However, once they become callous enough, they learn to like it, because it´s to their easy benefit.

 

Ok, let´s blame men and the culture. But who raised those men? Who are 50% of that culture? Who keeps also traditions alive? All innocent women who are forced to do so? 

21.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 07:35 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

Ok, let´s blame men and the culture. But who raised those men? Who are 50% of that culture? Who keeps also traditions alive? All innocent women who are forced to do so? 

 

Trudy, so you missed the point. Of course women are also brainwashed and they must accept the dominant ideology. It´s normal. Just like women in some islamic countries raising their sons to be jihadists. Do these women also not know what they are doing???!!!

 

Yes, we have to educate our women to have a better world!

22.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 07:44 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

It´s normal. Just like women in islamic countries raising their sons to be jihadists.

 

 Congratulations! Very neatly engineered.

 

btw   What do you look for in your ideal man?   

23.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 07:51 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

Trudy, so you missed the point. Of course women are also brainwashed and they must accept the dominant ideology. It´s normal. Just like women in islamic countries raising their sons to be jihadists. Do these women also not know what they are doing???!!!

 

Yes, we have to educate our women to have a better world!

 

I don´t think I missed the point, maybe I missed YOUR point, that´s possible, I´m a feminist but not as tough as you. I know, I see that things are wrong but to say it´s all to blame to men? No.

24.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 07:52 pm

catwoman, are  you serious when you write:

 

Just like women in islamic countries raising their sons to be jihadists.

25.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 08:03 pm

 

Quoting Roswitha

catwoman, are  you serious when you write:

 

Just like women in some islamic countries raising their sons to be jihadists.

 

ros, of course i was serious. did you see a smiley somewhere there?

it was an example! can you see it? i did not mean to imply anything about how many women in how many countries do this. sorry if that´s how it came across.

26.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 08:05 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

I don´t think I missed the point, maybe I missed YOUR point, that´s possible, I´m a feminist but not as tough as you. I know, I see that things are wrong but to say it´s all to blame to men? No.

 

Trudy, where did it say that I´m blaming all men? Can you show me? These ideas are not coming out of feminism, it is normal human behavior.

27.       Roswitha
4132 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 08:06 pm

no comment

28.       Trudy
7887 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 08:13 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

Trudy, where did it say that I´m blaming all men? Can you show me? These ideas are not coming out of feminism, it is normal human behavior.

 

 In my view your last paragraph is pointing towards men.

29.       catwoman
8933 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 08:17 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 In my view your last paragraph is pointing towards men.

 

This was the last paragraph, I still don´t see where I am blaming men:

 

The bottom line is that we live in a male dominant culture, men still own the majority of everything (like 80-90%!). And, male dominant ideological foundation is the foundation of our countries. That means that some beliefs are still rooted in people that are beneficial to men and harmful to women. This ideological foundation is being continuously perpetuated by our media, by pornography, by the kind of culture we live in, by the way things are set up. In a way, men are also ´victims´ of this system, as many normal men end up having misogynistic attitudes after being raised in this system. However, once they become callous enough, they learn to like it, because it´s to their easy benefit.

 

30.       teaschip
3870 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 08:33 pm

I happen to think it has nothing to do with a man or a women specifically, but rather the individual.  Some women are very needy, do not like to be alone and cling to men no matter what they sacrafice even their own morals. Men have testosterone and some don´t know how to control it.  It doesn´t help that porn and the media exploit sexuality, however we are all adults and some abuse it more than others.  Women and men both can be opportunists and I have seen women take every dime a man has and vise versa.

 

I don´t think you can use the comparison because I believe most women have an instinct to want to protect their children at all costs, so why would these women want to enable their sons to be jihadists.  Because it´s the thing to do, outside pressure, they don´t know any better?  I don´t believe this. 

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