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Q, W, X (or nationalists and chauvinists are so mentally blocked)
(137 Messages in 14 pages - View all)
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20.       catwoman
8933 posts
 29 Sep 2009 Tue 04:51 pm

 

Quoting si++

How about American Indians? I am sure they have a language that requires some different letters. What if they demand a new alphabet be designed for them and ask for the extra letters to be included in American alphabet so as to be used their names? Shouldn´t be any problem, I guess.

 

What happened to American Indians is an utmost barbarism, they were completely exterminated, and those who were left, were put into reservations, like animals. They are the poorest group in the US, worse of then African Americans, and few people care about their plight, mainly because they don´t have a political lobby, like African Americans do. Their language, culture, land, families were all destroyed... it´s a tragedy.

21.       mhsn supertitiz
518 posts
 29 Sep 2009 Tue 05:32 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

It appears that these letters were deliberately left out to make part of the population miserable.

 

Oh yes, they were left out because Turks hate kurds and want to drive them mad. That`s the level of shallowness of kurdophiles.<img src='/static/images/smileys//lol.gif' alt='lol'> (fast)

22.       armegon
1872 posts
 29 Sep 2009 Tue 05:33 pm

Same applies to hungaro slovakians in slovakia, even they are being fined if they speak their language  as far as i know, this is valid for some Baltic countries such as Estonia as well. Besides for instance in Bulgaria or Greece they write your names with their alphabet though it is not latin alphabet they use. Shortly every country has its own official alphabet and it is used  officially.

Quoting si++

 

 

How about American Indians? I am sure they have a language that requires some different letters. What if they demand a new alphabet be designed for them and ask for the extra letters to be included in American alphabet so as to be used their names? Shouldn´t be any problem, I guess.

 

 



Edited (9/29/2009) by armegon

23.       si++
3785 posts
 29 Sep 2009 Tue 05:58 pm

 

Quoting armegon

Same applies to hungaro slovakians in slovakia, even they are being fined if they speak their language  as far as i know, this is valid for some Baltic countries such as Estonia as well. Besides for instance in Bulgaria or Greece they write your names with their alphabet though it is not latin alphabet they use. Shortly every country has its own official alphabet and it is used  officially.

 

 

 

So what would my name (say Çaðrý Özgüç) be with Greek letters? I don´t think Greek alphabet has these Turkish specific letters. So how do the Turkish minority deal with it? Was there any complain (or demand like Kurds do today) for adding Turkish specific letters in Greece?

24.       Trudy
7887 posts
 29 Sep 2009 Tue 06:22 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

That said, say my name is Çaðrý Özgüç and I have applied for UK citizenship and been accepted. Can I use the Turkish letters in my name officially? Somebody from UK would please enlighten us?

 

 I don´t know about the UK, but I do know about my country. Yes, you can demand (!!) to use Turkish letters on official documents as passports, birth certificates etc. I know people whose name is: Özuberk, Böyukünlü, Çiçek etc.

25.       cedars
235 posts
 29 Sep 2009 Tue 06:33 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 I don´t know about the UK, but I do know about my country. Yes, you can demand (!!) to use Turkish letters on official documents as passports, birth certificates etc. I know people whose name is: Özuberk, Böyukünlü, Çiçek etc.

 

 Does this apply to all languages or just latin alphabets, I mean can one use arabic, hebrew, persian, japanese, chinese etc etc  alphabets ? !!!!  I strongly doubt, the situation would be so confusing

26.       si++
3785 posts
 29 Sep 2009 Tue 06:33 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 I don´t know about the UK, but I do know about my country. Yes, you can demand (!!) to use Turkish letters on official documents as passports, birth certificates etc. I know people whose name is: Özuberk, Böyukünlü, Çiçek etc.

 

I assume they have Holand citizenship, right? and you don´t have those letters in your alphabet?

 

And I think there are some claims by Turks about it as this link reports.



Edited (9/29/2009) by si++
Edited (9/29/2009) by si++

27.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Sep 2009 Tue 06:34 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

 I don´t know about the UK, but I do know about my country. Yes, you can demand (!!) to use Turkish letters on official documents as passports, birth certificates etc. I know people whose name is: Özuberk, Böyukünlü, Çiçek etc.

Well I doubt they will be quite harsh in the UK either, considering they opened welsh assembly, they use their own language, their own names etc..

UK is one of the countries in the world sorted these problems ´very elegantly´.

I can think UK as an example for Turkey the way they handle the different groups and multi nationalism.. 

I think in Turkey, there is still this law that you can go to jail if you use those letters in writing!! 

(How primitive it is as a law and imagine how enthusiastically nationalists  would interpret that law!!) 

 

28.       cedars
235 posts
 29 Sep 2009 Tue 06:43 pm

It is great how some countries have more than one official language and this does not cause major conflict, example switzerland, belgium.

May be if aramaic , pheonician  or even turkish  is used instead of arabic and hebrew it would ease some tension in the middle east

 

Quoting armegon

Same applies to hungaro slovakians in slovakia, even they are being fined if they speak their language  as far as i know, this is valid for some Baltic countries such as Estonia as well. Besides for instance in Bulgaria or Greece they write your names with their alphabet though it is not latin alphabet they use. Shortly every country has its own official alphabet and it is used  officially.

 

 

 

 

29.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 29 Sep 2009 Tue 06:54 pm

 

Quoting catwoman

I am not sure if I´m understanding this correctly, but I think what this means is that with the language reform, an alphabet was imposed on the Kurds and they were unable to spell some important words in their language. It appears that these letters were deliberately left out to make part of the population miserable, since other Turkic nations have included these letters as apparently useful in the language. I think this is the point of the story..

How can you compare this to you not being able to use your alphabet when you CHOOSE to live in another country?

Obviously, some more details of the story would be important to know..

Well obviously, there was a serious Turkification about everything  at the time..

I am not sure if there was a deliberate  thinking ´ah lets deny these Kurds from these 3 letters in the alphabet´  But I am not going to be surprised if there was any!!!

Because the same people prepared "sark islahat plani"  in 1925!!!

But  yes..

The writer of this article is saying that "Turkish bureaucracy denied the Kurds of Turkey the ability to use these three letters in their native tongue "..

And Dogu Ergil, the writer, is a professor in political science.. 

 

But I dont think it is that important.

What we know that people were put into jail because of use of their language  and use of these letters (from the original article):

"But strict laws and even stricter interpretations of them have put many people in prison and had them tortured for years on end just because they insisted in using them. The ban was taken to such extremes that invitations or holiday greeting cards issued by Kurdish mayors became subjects of prosecution or even their sacking (as was the case with the mayor of Diyarbakir´s Sur district)."

 

I would also ask my Turkish friends about the seriousness of how these letters were decided upon..

There is a laugable story about how letter Q was managed to get away without being  put into alphabet. (If Ataturk knew how to write capital Q, we would have had Q apparently)

 

Anyway the problem is that there are people living in Turkey and they are not Turk..

They are Kurds..

If we are at the position of accepting the idea ´we have kurds in Turkey´, if we are opening Kurdish TV  channels, if we are talking about Kurdish sections in universities, then  we have no alternative..

You can not do these things without those letters!! That is the bottom line..

And also, comparing Kurds as refugees in the West is not a nice thing..

It shows people´s  level of understanding of this problem!! (No wonder why we lost 70.000 people in last 30 years!!)

These people are not refugees in Turkey...

They are the citizens of Turkey!!!

This is simply nationalists mental blockage to think that ´ah we give these things more to come and it is our loss´..

Well it is not!! 

 

 

 

 

30.       Trudy
7887 posts
 29 Sep 2009 Tue 07:11 pm

 

Quoting si++

 

 

I assume they have Holand citizenship, right? and you don´t have those letters in your alphabet?

 

And I think there are some claims by Turks about it as this link reports.

 

 They have not all Dutch citizenship, some have a 5-year visa. We don´t have these letters in our alphabet/language though we use sometimes loanwords from France (ç ) or Germany (ü ) who have. The þ, ð, ý and ö can be demanded as well, I don´t know if they exist in other languages.



Edited (9/29/2009) by Trudy
Edited (9/29/2009) by Trudy

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