Turkish Politics |
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Q, W, X (or nationalists and chauvinists are so mentally blocked)
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60. |
05 Oct 2009 Mon 01:47 pm |
No they don´t, they have the same rights as everyone in Spain, but they just want more, so they demanded, and got, public schools paid by everyone´s taxes, where they teach 90% of the time in Catalan or Basque, they have got hospitals where all informative materials may be written only in Catalan or Basque.
That last thing I saw it personally in Barcelona, all brochures about preventing some diseases were written only in Catalan, while I am not Spanish, I can empathize with a Spanish citizen who would feel insulted by something like that, even if a native Spanish speaker can read Catalan competently (knowledge of French helps), a Spanish citizen should not be expected to take time trying to decipher something written in his own country because the government there is a bunch of dorks who feel so ´different´ that they enjoy rubbing it on everybody else´s face.
But I guess something like that situation would make DTP mayors really happy.
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61. |
05 Oct 2009 Mon 01:51 pm |
No they don´t, they have the same rights as everyone in Spain, but they just want more, so they demanded, and got, public schools paid by everyone´s taxes, where they teach 90% of the time in Catalan or Basque, they have got hospitals where all informative materials may be written only in Catalan or Basque.
That last thing I saw it personally in Barcelona, all brochures about preventing some diseases were written only in Catalan, while I am not Spanish, I can empathize with a Spanish citizen who would feel insulted by something like that, even if a native Spanish speaker can read Catalan competently (knowledge of French helps), a Spanish citizen should not be expected to take time trying to decipher something written in his own country because the government there is a bunch of dorks who feel so ´different´ that they enjoy rubbing it on everybody else´s face.
But I guess something like that situation would make DTP mayors really happy.
Wales is part of the UK, but if I visit wales I expect to see signs/posters/brochures to be written in Welsh not English. Why do Spanish have more rights?
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62. |
05 Oct 2009 Mon 01:55 pm |
No they don´t, they have the same rights as everyone in Spain, but they just want more, so they demanded, and got, public schools paid by everyone´s taxes, where they teach 90% of the time in Catalan or Basque, they have got hospitals where all informative materials may be written only in Catalan or Basque.
That last thing I saw it personally in Barcelona, all brochures about preventing some diseases were written only in Catalan, while I am not Spanish, I can empathize with a Spanish citizen who would feel insulted by something like that, even if a native Spanish speaker can read Catalan competently (knowledge of French helps), a Spanish citizen should not be expected to take time trying to decipher something written in his own country because the government there is a bunch of dorks who feel so ´different´ that they enjoy rubbing it on everybody else´s face.
But I guess something like that situation would make DTP mayors really happy.
You have simply no idea what "multi culturalism or multi ethnicity " is.
Not giving equal rights to other ethnicities always but always goes badly: Either you have to break them, which what we have been doing all those years with Kurds, or they will simply leave in the end.
But we Turks and Kurds want to live together and we will live together..
The only problem is the nationalists who are having mental blockage..
But even they are begining to realize the situation..
Look at the government´s Kurdish initive ? Look how it was supported by the people!!
People want peace after 70.000 deaths..
Edited (10/5/2009) by thehandsom
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63. |
05 Oct 2009 Mon 01:57 pm |
@handsom, I understand that it´s a reflex for every leftist to scream ´fascist´ at someone who happens to disagree with them, but I am by no means a fascist, I am not advocating banning the use of Kurdish, or closing TRT-6 down am I?
And I have seen well what people in Spain with the same ideas as the DTP have done, and how they support the Basque terrorist group ETA while pretending to ´reject´ violence, people who try to speak Kurdish in the Turkish parliament, fully knowing that most of their colleagues aren´t going to understand a thing, people who call Öcalan ´leader of the Kurds´, thereby insulting millions of Kurds who have nothing to do with terrorism, and dance around the issue of stepping to the front and saying that yes, PKK are a band of murderers and terrorists, and denouncing their irrational violence, are certainly not too democratic or peace-loving themselves, actually, last time I checked, fascism made a point of stressing ethnicity and glorifying it, so maybe you´re aiming at the wrong target.
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64. |
05 Oct 2009 Mon 02:01 pm |
Wales is part of the UK, but if I visit wales I expect to see signs/posters/brochures to be written in Welsh not English. Why do Spanish have more rights?
I would expect to see signs/posters/brochures in BOTH English and Welsh, read my post again, I complained about brochures being in Catalan ONLY.
I have nothing against the use of Catalan, Basque or Galician in government materials or signage, same for the use of Welsh in Wales, but they should always use the common language of the country as well.
Same for Turkey, I would support the Health Ministry printing bilingual Turkish/Kurdish brochures in Diyarbakýr as example, but not monolingual Kurdish materials of any sort.
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65. |
05 Oct 2009 Mon 02:10 pm |
I would expect to see signs/posters/brochures in BOTH English and Welsh, read my post again, I complained about brochures being in Catalan ONLY.
I have nothing against the use of Catalan, Basque or Galician in government materials or signage, same for the use of Welsh in Wales, but they should always use the common language of the country as well.
Same for Turkey, I would support the Health Ministry printing bilingual Turkish/Kurdish brochures in Diyarbakýr as example, but not monolingual Kurdish materials of any sort.
Dont go to Wales then There are many road/information signs in Welsh only - and rightly so....
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66. |
05 Oct 2009 Mon 02:10 pm |
@handsom, I understand that it´s a reflex for every leftist to scream ´fascist´ at someone who happens to disagree with them, but I am by no means a fascist, I am not advocating banning the use of Kurdish, or closing TRT-6 down am I?
And I have seen well what people in Spain with the same ideas as the DTP have done, and how they support the Basque terrorist group ETA while pretending to ´reject´ violence, people who try to speak Kurdish in the Turkish parliament, fully knowing that most of their colleagues aren´t going to understand a thing, people who call Öcalan ´leader of the Kurds´, thereby insulting millions of Kurds who have nothing to do with terrorism, and dance around the issue of stepping to the front and saying that yes, PKK are a band of murderers and terrorists, and denouncing their irrational violence, are certainly not too democratic or peace-loving themselves, actually, last time I checked, fascism made a point of stressing ethnicity and glorifying it, so maybe you´re aiming at the wrong target.
It was not a reflex at all..It was just an answer to your comment ab0ut lala land..
I do not think you have enough knowledge about the subject.. You do not know the history of the problem but however, ´you not knowing them is not preventing´ you to comment on the issue..
I would recommend you to read more about the subject before side lining yourself with the ideology which resulted in 70.000 people´s death!!!
But however, of course, you are a free person and I would respect any ideas as long as my ideas are respected..
I would be extra cautious about trashing aside people and groups as terrorists..
You should really check abit more about the politics..
First of all..Most of the KURDS supporting Apo..
They, Kurds voted the party DTP which publicly supports PKK.. Almost every single Kurd will say to you that ´they would be still at the state of -THERE ARE NO KURDS but mountain TURKS only-´ if there was not PKK..
Do you know that Ocalan is the person who can stop all these?
do you know that Turkish state is being negotiating with him for a long time?
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67. |
05 Oct 2009 Mon 02:34 pm |
Dont go to Wales then There are many road/information signs in Welsh only - and rightly so....
...And rightly so...Sad, very sad, I´m sure Welsh people who don´t speak too much Welsh, or visitors from other parts of the UK are very appreciative of Welsh-only signage.
@handsom...I won´t waste more time with you on this subject, I may not know as much facts and details as you do, but calling a terrorist leader by an affectionate nickname is just appalling I´m sure families of people who died and still die to the PKK´s bombs, including people who are no part of the Turkish security force and therefore not "military objectives" also call that madman "Apo" affectionately when they remember they lost their friends or relatives to a random terrorist bomb.
No grievance some Kurds may feel gives them the right to place bombs or spring mines on unsuspecting people, but maybe I am a "fascist" because I denounce their insanity and violence instead of sitting down trying to "understand the other" or some other claptrap that is maybe good when you´re dealing with deputies in the parliament, NOT cold-blooded psychopaths like the PKK.
I don´t care about the details and whatnot, when someone starts a terrorist group like the PKK, all that is needed to know is that they are more than willing to kill innocent people to avenge whatever thing they are trying to avenge, or to get whatever political gains they seek, and people like that deserve no affectionate nicknames.
And I like your open-mindedness when you accuse me of siding with the ideology that caused 70.000 deaths, typical only "fascism" can be responsible of deaths, because the PKK´s "revolutionary nationalist socialism" (hint, mix up nationalism and socialism and see what you get) is not responsible of anything, only the big bad fascism of some racist Turkish ultranationalists (which I don´t like) can bring about death, the Soviet or Cuban-inspired violent ideology of PKK is responsible for absolutely no problems...next time you will tell me that all 70.000 deaths were poor innocent Kurdish babies killed by big bad Turkish fascists.
Edited (10/5/2009) by Iceheart_Omnis
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68. |
05 Oct 2009 Mon 02:49 pm |
...And rightly so...Sad, very sad, I´m sure Welsh people who don´t speak too much Welsh, or visitors from other parts of the UK are very appreciative of Welsh-only signage.
@handsom...I won´t waste more time with you on this subject, I may not know as much facts and details as you do, but calling a terrorist leader by an affectionate nickname is just appalling I´m sure families of people who died and still die to the PKK´s bombs, including people who are no part of the Turkish security force and therefore not "military objectives" also call that madman "Apo" affectionately when they remember they lost their friends or relatives to a random terrorist bomb.
No grievance some Kurds may feel gives them the right to place bombs or spring mines on unsuspecting people, but maybe I am a "fascist" because I denounce their insanity and violence instead of sitting down trying to "understand the other" or some other claptrap that is maybe good when you´re dealing with deputies in the parliament, NOT cold-blooded psychopaths like the PKK.
I don´t care about the details and whatnot, when someone starts a terrorist group like the PKK, all that is needed to know is that they are more than willing to kill innocent people to avenge whatever thing they are trying to avenge, or to get whatever political gains they seek, and people like that deserve no affectionate nicknames.
As far as I know welsh people are quite happy and I dont think they will ever take arms for banning their language or Brits trying to assimilate them..
Actually UK is a great example how these problems can be sorted ´elegantly´ without killing each other..
Well..Calling Ocalan as Apo is not calling him with affectionate nickname. I am telling you..You are jumping easily into band wagon without even knowing that much about the subject and NOW you are trying to say something that it will make sense purely Turkish context.. Apo is not an affectionate nickname at all.. Everybody uses it in Turkey..So what?
Do you see yourself that you are assuming something a Turk has said in Turkish context and accusing the Turk?
Come on..I can understand and respect you not knowing the details and the history of this conflict but trying to come on me with your assumptions in Turkish is not excusable!!
I dont care about the people and what they say if those people not even know how many people died in that conflict, how many of them got killed with the army bullets, how many of them were Kurds Turks etc..
Do you know those values? do you know the details of that70.000? do you know that 17.000 people gone missing?!!
Anyway..I think you should stop this ´ah I know this much I dont know this I dont know that but blah blah ´ type of arguments..
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69. |
05 Oct 2009 Mon 04:59 pm |
As far as I know welsh people are quite happy and I dont think they will ever take arms for banning their language or Brits trying to assimilate them..
We should ban the Welsh Assembly though! 
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70. |
05 Oct 2009 Mon 09:14 pm |
I think that allowing Kurdish citizens of Turkey to use the Kurdish alphabet when registering their names is a separate topic from adding the Q, W and X letters to the Turkish alphabet, I think allowing Kurdish-origin citizens to use the Kurdish alphabet is reasonable, however, I don´t think those letters should be incorporated to the Turkish Alphabet, they are not necessary.
FWIW....it seems to me it would only confuse things.
As an example; Spanish is the largest non Anglo group in the US, and they have the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo to fall back on regarding linguistic issues, however there are none of the extra Spanish letters in official USA documents. This results in people pronouncing names in a unintended manner.
If a Turkish citizen comes to the US there is no allowance for any of the special Turkish letters on official documents...........nor are there Japanese letters...and on and on...no Arabic....no Mandarin....In areas with large concentrations of a particular ethnic group, you may see signs written in multiple languages....but still, official documents remain in English.
Turkey has a national language, as do most countries. The effect of a national language, and of course alphabet, is to simplify things so as to allow everyone to communicate with each other.
It´s not only for making it possible to have names with personal names with qxw in them but also to have place names with those letters which is even more important. This is an EU project. (EU have already compiled the old place names in Black Sea region which will follow this one. You can be sure EU will come up with demands for changing the place names in that region after they make Turkey change this one) Current laws don´t make it possible to have qxw letters for Kurdish names (people/place). We will see how the current political party at power will handle it. Probably they will find a way but how?
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