Edited (9/13/2010) by Arafta

You do not have to live in an underdevelopped country to have women killed for their religion or beleifs,  I live in Canada and not long ago a 17 year old girl and her mother was killed by her ex husband and son, it was a honor killing.  So even in so called developped and modern countries there are cruel things going on.  It is not the fact that the country is modern or not it is the way of thinking of certain people.

I had male friends sleep over at my parents house, geez we even slept in the same bed and we did not get married, my family did not even assume I was going to mary him and nothing happenned between us, there just wasn´t enough beds in the house.

hahahhahahahahhahahaha it´s just the same old story over and over again. You just cannot accept that I don´t care what the majority religion is in a country, if it opresses women, I condemn it al the same!

That´s why I said I condemn what goes on in Kenya. Or South Africa for that matter. How come you read it otherwise?

Kenya and SA very very bad -> clear now?

But it doesn´t change the fact that developed, rich Arab countries opress women. They do.

Arab countries very very bad -> clear?

What do you mean by christian clothes? That would be something made of linen and a scarf over the head? well - to me it would sound traditional

Sorry but you´re losing it here.

Modern doesn´t mean you walk naked in the streets or you dress in a code. Nope. It means that your family cannot hit you and a strange guy in the street cannot spit on you  if you don´t put a bag over your head. Whether you choose to wear a turtle-neck or a mini skirt, it´s fine because you´r free to make a choice.

Oh, I still haven´t heard abything about what you consider modern - enlighten me please

*Sorry for the spelling mistake in your name Arafta

Stumpy - sure bad things happen everywhere but in Canada perpetrator will be punished by court order (if they catch him of course) whereas in many Arab countries such case will not even get to court as such action is perceived legal and justified. See the difference?

I´ll explain it again. My family is not backward. They don´t judge me about having male friends. However, if I would bring a male to my uncle, and I would NOT say "this is my friend", they would just assume he is MORE than a friend. They wouldn´t expect me to get married to the guy, and they would´t stone me to death. It is just an assumption, since it´s not usual to hang out with your friends at your uncles house. Yes, I´ve been on holiday with guys who were just friends. We slept in the same room, in different beds. If we would sleep in the same bed, he wouldn´t be "just a friend", would he? I don´t understand why this would make my family backwards? They don´t expect me to get married to every guy I meet, they don´t expect every guy I bring to their home to be marriage material, but they do expect me to say who the guy is that I´m brining to their homes. If I´m not introducing him formally, they would expect me to be to shy to say "I am in LOVE with this guy!"

And by the way, I had a love interest sleep in my house. He slept in a different room out of respect to my parents. I don´t like humping a boyfriend next to my parents bedroom. It was only my (at that point) fiancé who I actually slept in 1 bed with in my parents house. If that respect for my parents also makes me backwards, I must be a cave-woman. So be it.

BM - I don´t get your offended tone. You´re saying exactly teh same thing I did and act as if it was totally different.

You said your family does not assume anythign unless you tell them otherwise and that you´d never "hump" somebody in your parents house. Same here. Why would that make you backwards?

I don´t understand you...

so you are saying criminals get away with their crimes in "most" arab countries? ok tell us in what Arabic countries that happens, and let`s see if those countries really constitute the majority of the Arab countries. btw. as you`re saying Arab countries are bad do you also agree that christian Black/African countries are bad? and modern simply means contemporary, so anything that someone does in the present time is modern.

My family (extended family) will assume that a guy is my love interest, if I don´t introduce him as a "just a friend", so yes, they assume something. Somebody said on here that my family is backward because of this assumption. It´s like people think there are only two ways of living your life. Being a radically free hippy, promoting free love. Or being a strict Muslim family, lokcing up all the women in their homes.

(By the way, it would be rather odd for them to make that assumption now, I´m talking about my earlier years )

ok I`m asking you what countries tolerate the killing of women. 1) Kenya, 2)China, you tell us the rest. yes, girls shouldn`t be killed for "honor reasons" but they also shouldn`t get locked down in a basement and raped by their fathers for decades which is a horrible tradition unique to the christian countries.

Edited (9/13/2010) by Arafta
Edited (9/13/2010) by Arafta

This is not just a christian thing Arafta.  And fathers raping their daughters is not a christian tradition and is not limited to "christian countries".  There are Muslim men, in muslim countries that also rape their own daughters, it is called incest.

In the Gaza Strip, Saudi, Lebanon, Irak, Jordan

A June 2008 report by the Turkish Prime Ministry´s Human Rights Directorate, says that in Istanbul alone, there is one honor killing every week;

A 16-year-old girl had been buried alive by relatives for befriending boys in Southeast Turkey; her corpse was only found 40 days after she went missing.

Non Muslim Countries, Germany, Canada, USA, UK.

Would you like some more?

There was a fantastic a series of articles about honor killings from Roberts Fisk in the independent last week.

In one of them he says:

Iraqi Kurds, Palestinians in Jordan, Pakistan and Turkey appear to be the worst offenders but media freedoms in these countries may over-compensate for the secrecy which surrounds "honour" killings in Egypt ´ which untruthfully claims there are none ´ and other Middle East nations in the Gulf and the Levant. But honour crimes long ago spread to Britain, Belgium, Russia and Canada and many other nations. Security authorities and courts across much of the Middle East have connived in reducing or abrogating prison sentences for the family murder of women, often classifying them as suicides to prevent prosecutions.

It is difficult to remain unemotional at the vast and detailed catalogue of these crimes. How should one react to a man ´ this has happened in both Jordan and Egypt ´ who rapes his own daughter and then, when she becomes pregnant, kills her to save the "honour" of his family? Or the Turkish father and grandfather of a 16-year-old girl, Medine Mehmi, in the province of Adiyaman, who was buried alive beneath a chicken coop in February for "befriending boys"? Her body was found 40 days later, in a sitting position and with her hands tied.

(there was even a case in London recently!!)

.....

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-crimewave-that-shames-the-world-2072201.html (just read and cry really!!)

DD is right to say that in many countries honor killings are being treated more different than the other killings..Those type of crimes are seen justified morally. This moral justification is reflected in many areas in life: Like,  police dont treat the person the way he deserves. In some rural areas, they ignore the evidence; they pretend they did not see or hear anything; judges are more symphatetic etc..

Even in jail they are treated differently and hugely respected if their crime is ´honor killing´.