Latest news today:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10145351.stm

if you try to understand this quotes, no need to speak about them anymore..

´´Most of them detained for taking part in anti-government protests, under a law banning any show of support for the outlawed Kurdish Workers´ Party, or PKK.´´

If you try to understand this word

children

then there is.

They wont understand that.

They would rather prefer to talk about Palestinian children..  

 Being children gives them the right to stone police officers? I dont get your idea... They would be put to "Islahevi" -i dont remember the english word for that- for them to be a better person. This is the ideal way..

But if the officers in those places are abusing the children, then this is not right aswell.. But this is how it should be, PKK is a terrorist organization, children or adult, who supports them should be punished, and thaught they are on the wrong side of the border.... 

As a child we have all did stupid things. I stole some candy once. Not the smartest thing, and I wouldn´t do it as an adult. As an adult, I would get punished for stealing. As a child, people understand it was just plain stupidity. Your parents scream at you, you go back to the shop with a feeling of shame, and ask the shopkeeper for forgiveness.

It is not said that these children who are in jail are all there for throwing rocks or molesting policemen. They are there for being part of a protest... this means, walking on the street and shouting. I´m sure some of them also threw rocks, but you have no idea if all of them did this. But wether or not they did, the minimum sentence for this, perhaps just walking and screaming, is 5 years.

This is just crazy. 5 years of a child´s life.... You ruin his or her future forever. Do you think that when they get out of that hell-hole, where they grew up amongst criminals, they will be happy people? They can never build up a peaceful life. If you want to fuel terrorism, keep throwing kids in jail. Works like a charm.

+10000

They are not ashamed of putting children in jail as long as those children are Kurdish children..

And they still insist as if THIS is a normal thing! And then they wonder why we have ´Kurdish problem´ and that also explains what ´the Turkish problem´ is..

The text can write "protest", but how?  for the last few monthes they are turning into streets like a war area... There are making what they are doing with video records...

you are too far away to be able to understand the issue.. it is not simple like you think.. its not jail where they will be put... it will be the "islahevi" where they will be with other children...

This has nothing to do with being kurdish... this is related to Terrorism... you have start understanding the difference... as long as there people exists like you, offending anything done regarding to their being kurdish... we cant make a single cantimeter movement or achievement...

Of course it is..

Accusing children is the lowest a sate can get!! Such a shame!!

That is why we all are accusing Israel for example.. That is why we still have kurdish problem for example..

This is not accusing children, there is a crime done by some group of people, children adults etc...

How about the people provoking those kids? What to do with them??

For them,children, to be arrested would be much more beneficial than their staying in the middle of those provokers... When, the government supplies them in a good conditioned "ıslahevi" where they would have their educations continued etc... If their family are not able to educate them well, then the government should do it... this is how it is done in Europe as i know...

I never see this situation agains Kurdish kids, there is a crime and laws should work... There is lack of investments around those region, this is correct... but Kurdish people suffered more from their "Aşiret Ağaları" who abused them for years and years than the government itself...

The problem is nothing to do with asiret agalari over there but the racism those people have been subjected. The racism that does not want to give and did not want to give any of basic human rights to those people..

And you still wonder why those kids are throwing stones?

And still  support  putting them into jail!!

And turn around and  criticise Israel because of its treatments of Palestinian kids but when some one points out we are doing to our KURDISH kids, "ah but they are supporting terrorist"

Yeah yeah.. 

I dont support the israels movement to the human help organizations... That was firstly.. and me myself cant say much about the situation more deeply, as i dont have much background about whats going on there...

But you cant defend me yourself, with comparing the situation in israel...the situation is indeed different, there is a kinda war over there... between two countries!!!!

How about Turkey? which rights? where you kill your engineer and doctor and teachers, how can you give them or teach them their rights?

And now you are throwing stone for supporting the people who are responsible for so many deaths... and to the people who are responsible for your security...

Asiret Agaları has a very big effect over those people, they were elected for years and they have done nothing to people who supported, but only put money into their pocket...

I have been those places, and i have met the people... so i know the reality, i saw the reality... i didnt just read or heard...

there pops up the difference between you and me

When Allies entered Germany end of the war, some German people said ´ah but we did not know´

You can not say the same thing in the future as the info is all around you!!

You dont want to see..

BUT Dont you ever read at all?

Dont you know how those people were treated in the first place?

Just yesterday in one of the papers it was talking about, 50 years ago, when the army took over, they forced some kurdish families to live in other cities and indeed, were planning to hang them as examples for the other Kurds!!!!

Where have  you been living?

Ah Israel is different is it? Over there there are two countries in awar. is it? 

when Israel shoots at palestinian kids who are throwing stones, we would condemn them but when our own Kurdish children throw stones we would put them in jail and think that it is normal. is it?   

And anybody reminding this to us, we would say " it is our internal problem, stop interfering"..yes?

And as far as asiret agalari is concerned, in fact, if our state did not support them, they could have been in  history so long ago.. But of course, as long as some of those support the state, no problem at  all..

btw. do you really know the number of dead, how many of them Turkish, how many of them kurdish ? and how many kurds gone missing?

Kurdish people were always having their politician in the government 50 years ago... you have to ask these questions to them! not me i am afraid...

Shooting children and defining children who commited crime and arrest are two different things...

What will you gain with comparing how many kurds or turks dead? now it is racism what you are doing at start... kurds were killed more than turks itself... this is very ridicilous... the terrorism acted in those region and it is sad that the people over there have to face with fear and bad events all the time... I dont like whats going over there...

but you are mixing the conditions and situations... for all happened you cannot blame the government itself...

there is another saying "Cuvaldızı kendine, igneyi baskasına batır".. If you are fine with yourself.. then its ok.. Nothing more to argue...

I have my thoughts, you have yours... somehow we have to come to a common sense to solve the problems... 

You mean the Kurdish politicians who were unable to say they are Kurdish..

Do you have an idea how many kurdish party have been closed and how many of them were put in jail? 

Ah..in Israel they are shooting or breaking the kids´, who are throwing stones, arms or legs.. But you dont know,as usual,  the same thing has been happening   in your country..is it? 

But our own children are committing crime. and it  is a different thing. is it?

Well, if you put up the numbers, you will see how VOID your argument is or how ridiculous your argument will look. 

ah then , "I dont like what is going on there".. yes..wonderful. is it not?

If these things are still happening, they are happening  because of people who have been supporting government´s racist and wrong policies. Including putting kids into jail for stone throwing..

if the topic is about kurdish u all are talkative...u all are kurdish nationalist like armenians in 1900s.

forever DJ

Gay Dutch soldiers responsible for Srebrenica massacre says US general A former American general blamed "open homosexuality" in the Dutch army for the failure to prevent the Srebrenica massacre in 1995.

The Dutch government condemned the comments by Gen John Sheehan, a former Nato commander and senior marine officer, as outrageous. Gen Sheehan made the remarks at a Senate hearing where he argued against plans by President Barack Obama to end a ban on allowing gays to serve openly in the US military. Gen Sheehan said that after the end of the Cold War, European militaries changed and concluded "there was no longer a need for an active combat capability." He said this process included "open homosexuality" which resulted in "a focus on peacekeeping operations because they did not believe the Germans were going to attack again or the Soviets were coming back." "The case in point that I´m referring to is when the Dutch were required to defend Srebrenica against the Serbs," he said, referring to the UN peacekeeping force deployed to protect Bosnian Muslim civilians. "The battalion was understrength, poorly led, and the Serbs came into town, handcuffed the soldiers to the telephone poles, marched the Muslims off and executed them." Carl Levin, the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, pressed him to clarify his comments. "Did the Dutch leaders tell you it (the fall of Srebrenica) was because there were gay soldiers there?" asked an incredulous Levin. "Yes," Sheehan said and added: "They included that as part of the problem." Gen Sheehan, who retired from the military in 1997, said he had been told that by the former chief of staff of the Dutch army. Mr Levin vehemently rejected Sheehan´s allegation, saying that drawing a connection between the massacre at Srebrenica and gays in the Dutch military was "totally off-target". The failure of the Dutch UN troops to fend off an attack by Bosnian Serb forces had "nothing to do with sexual orientation" but was related to "their training and the rules of engagement," Mr Levin said. The Dutch government angrily rejected the claim. "It is astonishing that a man of his stature can utter such complete nonsense," said Roger van de Wetering, the Dutch defence ministry spokesman. "I have never heard of a single statement by a Dutch political or military leader that drew a link between the fall of the enclave and the fact that there were Dutch homosexual soldiers." Nearly 8,000 Bosnian Muslim men and boys were killed after Serb forces captured the eastern town on July 11 1995, in the worst massacre in Europe since World War II. Thursday´s hearing included testimony from both sides of the debate over the law known as "Don´t Ask, Don´t Tell," which requires gay service members to keep quiet about their sexual orientation or face expulsion from the military. Two former US officers who were discharged under the 1993 law appealed to lawmakers to repeal the ban, saying it was preventing qualified Americans from serving the country. Former air force officer Michael Almy said he had kept his homosexuality secret for years but was forced out after a commander ordered a search of his emails written to friends and family. "´Don´t ask, don´t tell´ failed me, despite the fact that I upheld my end of this law by never disclosing my private life," Almy said. He said he believed a younger generation in the military was ready to accept openly gay members in the armed forces. After his dismissal, when he asked former troops to write letters of reference for him, "it was a complete non-issue for my troops," Almy said. "The young men and women that are coming into the military today, fresh out of high school or college, have grown up with gay and lesbian characters on TV ... know gays and lesbians in their schools, in their communities, on their sports teams and most assuredly in their military."

forever DJXXX

Maybe, you can tell us a total solution to solve this problem, thehandsom. Can´t you?

Maybe, the solution is to part Turkey.

Maybe, if Turkish Government gives the South- Eastern part of Turkey to Kurdish people, the problem can be solved. What do you think?

The main aim of PKK and its supporters is to build an independent country in the mentioned area. They have been used and still using every way and mean to reach their aim. Attacking Turkish soldiers, government officers, local people -if they don´t support them-. They have politicians in and out the Turkish Parlament. They have medias. They have foreign supporters -governments and individuals-. They convince the people that they have freedom fighters, but it is not true. I am 50 years old man. I knew how Turkey was in my childhood. We used to be friends, Turkish and Kurdish children in our neighborhoods and schools. Our parents used to be good friends too. there were familiy visits with many occasions. We have never used to think the origin of our families in those times. You could have seen the Kurdish families in every city, in every town of the country -and still you can see them everwhere-. Then some ideolojical organizations, politicians started talking on "Kurdish Problem". In the beginning, themselves, the older Kurdish people protested and criticised those  freedom fighters (!!!) They were saying that they have no any problem with their Turkish neighbors and friends; therefore those Kurdish political sayings were nonsense.

The sensible Kurdish people were saying that Turkey is not a rich country and not only people living in South-Eastern part, but people in different regions of Turkey are also poor.

They were also saying that they could use their parental language everywhere except in government offices and it was normal that  every country had its own official language. 

But now, after many years of propagandizing the wrong ideas,  many young Kurds are believing that there is so much differences between Turks and Kurds. But I know the truth: The actual stuation is not the reality. It is something artificial, made up by some people who call themselves are "Kurd", but in fact they are enemies of Kurds and Turks. They are just ruining, destroying the Turkish-Kurdish brotherhood. Many innocent children and youths believe in lies and follow the wrong ones. 

When we come to the foreigners position towards this question, we observe a very weird stuation: Either they feel themselves superior to us and start giving lectures or just criticize us. I know that some of them are misinformed and are not well aware of the real stuation in Turkey; but some of them are really aware of the truth and intentionally serving the terrorist organization PKK´s aim.

So, Mr. thehandsom, last week you started the column "Armenian Question", and now somekind of "Kurdish Question". Are you an innocent person, unaware of the real problems in Turkey, or  someone who is trying to serve of PKK´s horrible aim?

Well..

Of course there is not going to be an easy solution.. But I think you misunderstood the problem in the first place.. Even just now..almost all Kurdish politicians including Apo, are saying that they dont want independence.. 

My worry is that coming into a stage it will be "too little too late"

Look, dont look at me for an answer..The answer is in your post itself.. You are saying that "They were also saying that they could use their parental language everywhere except in government offices and it was normal that  every country had its own official language. "

Ask yourself what happened in 1980s.. Read how our generals banned their language!! Read how we changed their village names..

I am going to ask the same question: 

Where have you been living all those years? why did you not come up and say ´Their parental language is their rights´..Why did you not come up and say ´there are Kurds in this country´ when our generals said ´there are no such a thing called kurds..They are mountain Turks´?

Why?

Now after years of fighting, we have accepted there is a people in there and called Kurds..

Could you come up and say that years ago?

Of course not.. They would put you in jail too..

You were too busy believing in what the generals were telling you..

And you were believing that it was all part of conspiracy..

Anyway..

I think, you should read, we should all read..As I said, there are plenty of material out there and ´ah I did not know´ is not an excuse anymore..

As far as the Armenian question columns are concerned, I think i HAVE explained "why it is necessary to talk about those taboo subjects"..

Basically, as Vineyard also mentioned  "we dont know anything about the subject since we were not taught  in schools", it is good that we talk about it.. and try to learn a few things along the way.. 

Nobody has mentioned the fact of how disgusting it is that the PKK uses children in this way.  I think most of the blame needs to rest on them.  As for the Turkish government, this would be a great opportunity to show mercy and tolerance....especially to a child.  THAT lesson would carry through life a lot longer than a prison sentence.  The Turkish government is cultivating more hate upon itself.  Bravo!

Both sides have sunk to the level of using children to make a point.  I find the entire issue an offense against all things human. 

+100000

Quite objective and well-said word! They say, PKK was born, or in other words Turkey gave birth to PKK, in Diyarbakir prison - perhaps, the only partner of Saigon in the world, for which the word "torture" simply and ridiculously sucks! Everyone, who tends and likes to sermon about how PKK is an terrorist organisation, must think about and understand what has happened there in the early 80s. And those children, who are today put in jails, are the militants of tomorrow. Nobody have a doubt about this!

I didn´t know you make sometimes such a striking statements. Impressed!

Because the hatred makes some exact people here blind to everything.

It is a disgusting tactic that they use their own children in such dangerous demonstrations  just because to put the government in a difficult position.

Who is more guilty: the families or the government?    

 I condemn all who make these children a part of their political agenda and all who take vengeance on them. And I especially condemn all who want to show off as if they are so much caring for these children.

As do we all.

Who exactly are you referring to here?  ´Show off´???  You think people ´pretend´ to care about children so they can ´show off´???   .  Are you sure this is what you meant?? 

Israel, Palestine, Kurds, Turkey, bla bla bla!

The problem is that kids are being robbed of their childhood. Firstly by growing up in deprived areas, secondly by being thrown into jail. If a 15 year old is sentenced for 5 years or more, that 15 year old will not go to a magical place, where people were hugh her and love her, and teach her "the right ways" She goes to jail... the not so nice jail... the jail where criminals are...yes, the REAL jail. And she will learn to follow their rules, to survive. The only way to survive is to become hard. If she ever leaves that hell, she will hate the Turkish state more then ever, and be more likely to go live in some mountain cave somewhere, and learn to shoot soldiers, instead of shouting at them.

When you are making a comment, you have to consider the conditions more. You cannot comment up with the utopic ideas and assumptions.

What if those kids stone would hit an officers head, he would be dead all over there.. with leaving his family behind?

They will not put him to the jail, where adults are... He or she will be put, where they will be together with his or her age...

But there starts the governmnets duty, to supply with good conditions to those kids... they have to open up classes and workshops in order to let them be updated with the daily life... Because it is bare that, those kids are brainwashed by the provokers...

The world is not that naive as you are thinking...

Did IRA ever use children for their terrorist sakes?

Did ETA use children as alive shield?

Can you see children amongst Flamanks or Valons protests?

What about in Transilvania? Have you ever seen Hungarian kids on the acts?

The list can be widened.

Using kids for ANY sakes is rascality.

However, Turkey as a social state, has to let these kids off and find a way to keep them away from terrorist acts.

" ´What did you suppose the war is?´ -this I would ask those who believe that those children are the enemy drived to the streets by militant Kurdish families and who try to put them on the right track, both resorting to the law and polishing national feelings. Those children, who throw stones at uniformed police/soldiers, are the results of the war. They are the war-children."

"Taş atan çocukların Kürt militan aileleri tarafından sokağa sürülen düşman gücü olduğuna inanan, onları kâh hukuka başvurarak, kâh milli hassasiyet cilalayarak halledebilmek için çalışan kafalara yegane sorum, “Siz savaşı ne zannediyordunuz?” olacaktır. Üniformalı taşlayan o çocuklar savaşın ürünleridir. Onlar savaş çocuklarıdır."

Yildirim Türker - 2nd January 2010

More is here

First of all there is no war in Turkey. There is just terrorism. Terrorists are not the gunned power of Kurdish people. Kurdish people are not enemies of Turkish goverment. The only enemy is terrorists. The terrorists, who does not abstain to use children for their bloody sakes. Provakers ideas can not be reference points.

Secondly, even if it was war it was forbidden to use children, elders and women in it. What kind of warrior can be hided back of the kids?

What someone does not understand is There is no problem between Kurdish people and Turkish people. There is just the struggle with terrorism. Whicever those terrorists nations are. Kurdish, Turkish, Armenian, Syrian, Israeli, Iraqi, İrani, Danish, French, German, American, Russian, Dutch, Belgian etc. etc.

"Patriotic heroes, who shut their eye when millions of poor people were exiled to the suburs of the cities and to the streets - what were you expecting? Those children will throw those stones."

"Milyonlarca insan köylerinden sürülüp şehirlerin varoşlarına, sokaklarına aç biilaç döküldüklerinde görmezden gelen vatansever yiğitler, ne bekliyordunuz? O çocuklar, o taşları atacak."

Yildirim Türker - 2nd January 2010

more is here

The kids should not be punished, even if caught red handed throwing stones to security forces, other people´s homes and stores, or burning cars in the streets - at all.

Their idiotic and cowardly fathers - who push them on the streets into a stupid war - should be punished instead.

 I refer to most of you.If you just chat in front of your computers and don´t take action;you are showing off. The worst part is you are kicking out people who took action like spritzer. You are typical orientalists who talk much as you know everything but do nothing. Yes I do nothing also but I don´t try to save the world with empty words.You can´t save anything or anybody with empty words and without action. You can take Rachel Corrie as an example. You should be either an activist or you shouldn´t talk too loudly.Because one day one can ask you what you did except talking  and you can be ashamed.

Then what they say is false. It has no sociological perspective nor scientific depth of understanding. Things would be totally different in Turkey if there was no Diyarbakır Prison back to early in 80´s? Turkish Marxists were as much tortured as Kurdish Marxists in some other prisons, if you must know.

Even before 80´s military coup, it was a great debate among Kurdish Marxists whether the main contradiction was between imperialist Turks and oppressed Kurds, or between the central oligarchy and the oppressed peoples of both nations, and PKK was founded in 1978 by a group of Kurdish Marxists claiming that the main contradiction was rather based on ethnic differences than the class conflict.

Nothing gets birth in prison, i mean such internationally organised terrorism, its name was ASALA before. As we all know...

Agreed. I´ve no idea how it works in Turkey but in Poland a child under 12 cannot be held responsible for any crime s/he commits. Should a child break the law, her or his parents have to bear the consequences. A child under 12 is, unless the court decides otherwise, the parents´ responsibility. The moral spine and the ability to tell right from wrong  of such children is not strong enough to make the child legally punishable for their actions.

Yes teacher, I think you will require an attendance sheet too. We are sorry for being so thick headed. If we followed your footprints there would be no problems since there would be no country left.

There are some people who go very far in their protests, and it´s nice to see how far people can go to help others. However, being run over by a bulldozer is not the most productive way to change the world. There are many levels of protesting agaist injustice. The first one is opening your mouth. The worst thing is to say "Wir haben es nicht gewust" (We didn´t know)

My first step of protest is actually opening my mouth. I was part of a project in which we went to visit schools throughout Holland, to teach them about the Children´s Rights charters. How these rights applied to the kids in Holland, and how the status of children´s rights were in other countries. No, there were no bulldozers involved, but I think at least I did a little something to make those kids aware of what was happenig in the world. Did I earn the right to complain on this forum? Or is there another level of "doing something" that I need to reach before I´m allowed to have an opinion?

Probably you need to join the army and go to Afghanistan..... 

 in BURKA or in the standard uniform of Royal Dutch Army?  

“We Armenians must try to share our enthusiasm with them. For this, we do not have any other means except out motivation, with which we could strengthen ourselves and become live models, and show that we Armenians are capable of defending our and our neighbor’s rights as well. If we create this vigor, then we will have the Kurdish ally. Otherwise, Armenians will remain as raiding and robbing targets for the Kurds, and at no time will they accept us as partners in the struggle against the common enemy.”

Kristapor Mikayelian

(Founding member, A.R.F)

I am now enlightened, thank you! Those, who claim PKK was born in Diyarbakir prison, evidently don´t know when, how and by whom it was founded. Personally I have learnt thanks to you. But what they do know and obviously you don´t, is that Turkey has a PKK-problem, or in other words PKK is what we today know as PKK, since 1984, a date which corresponds to the period of the first prisoner releases from the prison in question after 1980.

As you missed in my previous post, which you quoted, I will repeat it here again. The word ´torture´ simply and ridiculously sucks, to describe what were done to the prisoners in Diyarbakir prison. It is fair, to some extent, to describe what has happened in other prisons as ´torture´, but in case of Diyarbakir prison, it is something different, beyond ´torture´. As we humanity don´t yet have more corresponding words/adjectives to describe such events, we inevitably use "torture, inhumane, fierce, brutal, etc.", which can be close but not exact describing and which in some cases works. Like we inevitably use ´genocide´ to describe what Nazis did to the Jewish.

An homework to you: what might, in your opinion, be the reason why most of those, imprisoned between 1980-1990 in Diyarbakir prison, even deny ´the torture´, some never talk about it at all and only a few talked about their life there even after 25-30 years later, and hence we today still know little about the Diyarbakir prison fact, while we know well enough what happened in other prisons thanks to ´Turkish Marxists´ tellings?

To help or to shoot at afghani children?

The Dutch army hasn´t shot any Afghan children, thank you very much Not all armies in the world are the same.

many things occur that the public are never told why because

most could not handle the truth

but from what I know all respond the same when out in the field.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/10/afghan_civilians_killed_in_dut.php

http://article.wn.com/view/2010/02/21/Dutch_troops_to_leave_Afghanistan_as_planned_PM/

as a soldier and a paramedic who has been out in the field , I can say you don´t always

have a choice who you shoot  when you are under attack, nor do you always know.

Many kids are used as bate and armed up to the gills. This is not the only war that uses children. Please do a google search of children used as weapons for war.

R.O.E. (rules of engagement) for Military troops and repeated by commanders

of the NATO troops is ´if you feel threatened by someone at anytime you can

remove that threat´. Thus you have a very wide discretion placed upon the

individual soldiers perception on what if any threat is presented. Someone might

percieve a threat simply by a Afghan villager sticking his/her head outside their

door. Another might perceive a threat if a young Afghan holding a gun is peering

thru a window. Sadly, in the Marjah campaign a convoy of Afghan civilians fleeing

the fight were perceived as a threat and a air-strike was called in which killed all

of them.

Complicating that accurate perception is the wide scale use of anti-depressants

which hype the sensory inputs of the soldiers and ambian to knock the soldiers

out to sleep. Ambian intoxication when taken for many days invariably leads to

confused thinking and a walking while still asleep condition. Either of those two

drugs can greatly lead a soldier to ´see´ or sense a threat to their life where no

such threat exists.

An Afghan man/boy  with a strange smile and holding his cell phone could be

mistaken to be a Taliban soldier holding a remote detonator and immediately

dropped with a 3 round burst.

None of this should of ever happened: 40 years ago Afghanistan was a very

cultured city look it up.

Afghanistan wouldn´t of have to fight the Soviets had it not been for the

West´s intervention in the country. King Daud made a mistake by siding

with the West and later Mujahedeen made a mistake fighting the Soviets.

They should´ve allowed the Soviets build Afghanistan and today Afghanistan

wouldn´t be a ruined desert occupied by Nato bases getting ready for future

energy battles with China/russia.

He never saw it coming. On Jan. 4, 2002, Sgt. Nathan Ross Chapman

was the first U.S. serviceman to be killed by hostile fire in Afghanistan.

A 31-year-old Green Beret who also served in the Persian Gulf War,

Chapman was killed by sniper fire after meeting with local tribal leaders

in Paktia province. He knew the dangers he faced but probably never

imagined he would die from a bullet fired by a child soldier.

An isolated incident? Sadly, no. Seeing gun-wielding children as

young as 7 or 8 shooting at U.S. troops may shock the American public,

but war no longer is the exclusive domain of adults. Child soldiers are a

growing phenomenon in Third World countries as gun manufacturers

have produced ever-lighter assault weapons that can be carried by

children. By definition a child soldier is younger than 18. While the

United States allows those as young as 17 to serve with parental

consent, many Third World countries appear to be robbing grammar

schools to support their regimes.

Today, as many as 300,000 child soldiers are engaged in military

fighting in approximately 30 countries on every continent except

Antarctica and Australia. In addition to Afghanistan, for example

, child soldiers are serving in armies in Angola, Uganda, Pakistan,

Burma, Sierra Leone, Colombia and Chechnya. Not even little girls are

exempt from this conscription. Often they find themselves forced into

sexual slavery or used as human minesweepers.

-

metehan - the children in question here are the ones in streets throwing stones at the armed forces, not the ones supposedly in guerilla camps of the PKK.

P.S. Edit your post, so that one could post their reply. Currently it is technically impossible due to copy&paste of a formatted frame, unless you quote someone´s post and then delete the whole quote, like I have done now.

Diyarbakır prison, Diyarbakır prison… So you think a terrorist organization which is the killer of 40000 people; a very active player of gun and drug smuggle is based upon the events in Diyarbakır prison? How ignorant you are!

Most people living in Turkey are not supporting the Militarial Goverments’ acts in 80s. 80s is not a period that we memorialize with gratitude. However what happened in Diyarbakır is not more than what happened in İstanbul or any other city or prison.

The issue is; international intelligence services provoked some feudal leaders in exchange for more money and power.

PKK does not represent Kurdish people. Kurdish people are the main group which suffers from PKK. While PKK does not refrain to use kids for their bloody sakes; which bumpkin can think they do not use Kurdish society for their sakes? PKK is a one of the bloodiest terrorist organizations. And it’s stupid to look back the Diyarbakır prison to find its roots.

PKK uses children not only in Turkey but Europe too. The following article explains the details.

http://www.turknorthamerica.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1348

KURDISH TERRORIST ORGANIZATION PKK

and

Child Recruitment and Deployment

The PKK is based in Turkey but has camps in the Bekaa Valley of Lebanon and in the district of Makhmur in the Kurdish area of Iraq. Smaller camps are still operational in very mountainous terrain close to the Turkish and Iranian borders.

From 1994, it appears that the PKK started to systematically recruit more and more children and even created children´s regiments. It was claimed, for example, that a children´s battalion named Tabura Zaroken Sehit Agit was composed of three divisions and was, in theory at least, run by a committee of five children aged between 8 and 12 years. Both boys and girls are recruited by the PKK. In 1998, it was reported that the PKK had 3,000 children within its ranks, more than 10 per cent of whom were girls. The youngest child witnessed with the PKK was 7 years old. 

The PKK was reported to have lost as many as 1,000 guerrillas during a battle with the Kurdish Democratic Party in 1995. Many boys and girls were among the victims, according to KDP sources. In 1997, a 14-year-old girl was one of several female guerrillas taken prisoner by the Turkish army during an offensive in Turkey´s Cudi mountains. She had joined the PKK the previous year and had received political and military training at a PKK camp in northern Iraq. She was a Syrian national. 

Some disturbing reports have been released on recruitment practices of the PKK in Western Europe. During the summer of 1998, Rädda Barnen learnt of PKK recruitment drives in Swedish schools. Seventeen minors were invited to attend a ´summer camp´ in July in northern Sweden before being recruited to serve the PKK in south-east Turkey. By mid-August 1998, only three of them had returned. Many families have reported their children missing to the police. 

A French magazine reported recently on the activities of the PKK in Kurdish communities living in France (about 100,000 people). The French police estimate the number of active PKK members at 300. In addition to taxes imposed on their incomes, some Kurdish families have to support the struggle by giving up their own children. Up to now, no family has formally complained to the police, instead preferring to claim that their child has run away. The PKK uses ‘cultural associations’ in order to indoctrinate these children, most during 15 days in a camp in the Larzac (South of France). The oldest have to follow the ‘big training period’ which takes place outside the child´s country. There, youths receive paramilitary training and the toughest go to the frontline after a final training at the Iranian border.

In Germany, the Police of Bielefeld have inquired into the activities of the PKK in Ostwestfalen-Lippe. In addition to other activities such as racketeering and drug smuggling, the PKK has also forced children, teenagers and youths to join ‘political courses’ for a few days. Sometimes these course have taken place abroad, notably in Belgium and in the Netherlands. It seems that this usually happened with the consent of parents. One girl who had been kidnapped was returned by the police after enquiries among members of the PKK. Two other children are still missing and one other child is believed to be missing. All these children are below the age of 14 years. 

Reports have been received from other cities in Germany. On a number of occasions, the German NGO, the Gesellschaft für bedrohte Völker (GfbV), has denounced the abduction of children by the PKK in Germany. In Celle, for example, it was reported that Kurdish parents of children who have died in hostilities or who are still fighting have been honoured during a PKK celebration in March 1998. On 22 November 1998, the criminal police of Hanover reported that three more children had been trained for guerrilla in camps in the Netherlands and Belgium. 

The GfbV also reported that thousands of parents in many Western countries are mourning their children who have died in combat or whose children have been abducted. It said that messages encouraging the recruitment of children have been released on MED-TV, the PKK´s satellite television. In Cologne, the German Coalition has been informed of a case of a 16-year-old Kurdish girl who is still missing since March 1999 after having joined a cultural meeting in a Kurdish centre.

According to the Turkish authorities, similar abductions have also occurred in Armenia, including three children who were abducted in Yerevan.

TURKISH AMERICAN SECURITY FOUNDATION

Be a Man PKK, Don’t Use The Children.

 I agree opening mouth is the first step. But you can´t stop in the first step if you want to change something. Words can be sometimes very effective but most of the times not. Some people won´t want to listen you. Most of the time a collective action is better than words. Everyone condemns Israel and USA for their crimes but they don´t listen anybody. Words are useless. After you understand words are no use and you keep saying same things over and over again knowing they will change nothing you are either showing off or you are afraid of taking action. I am reading now Frantz Fanon´s Wretched of The World. It tells the struggle of colony people and how words are useless without action. There is a famous foreword of J.P.Sartre for this book. You can find it here.http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/1961/preface.htm Read it carefully and you will understand what I mean. I don´t approve unnecessary violence. But taking action doesn´t mean only violence. Rachel Corrie´s action wasn´t violent. But it was very effective. I don´t advice you to be killed. But you should do more than talking. Rachel Corrie is now a martyr. She gives me hope for a good and peaceful future.She gives me courage. She tells me you must be brave and afraid of nothing when you are right. If she just talked and did nothing I wouldn´t even know her. I wouldn´t want her be killed by a bulldozer. But I respect her decision. She was so brave and when I remember this selfless act I am ashamed of my cowardice.

 I think only way to solve Kurdish problem is diplomacy for Turkey. I support the government´s Kurdish opening. But I am sure Kurdish politicians will want more. Their ultimate goal is having their own country. But Turkey still suffers the traumas of first world war. We lost many lands. And nobody want to lose more lands. It has become a taboo to even talk about giving more lands. So without a war Turkey will never allow Kurds to have their own country. My thoughts are these about this matter.

Note: By the way I am not a marxist. I hate marxism. I am a social democrat.

these children that throw rocks were taught somewhere to hate the turkish army

UNICEF: PKK keeps child militants in its Camps

Monday, May 24th 2010 7:37 PM

Copenhagen, May 24 (AKnews) - While the echoes of the links between a Kurdish satellite channel ROJ TV and the PKK is still continuing in Denmark; the photos of children being used as militants in PKK Camps have motivated UNICEF to act.
 
ROJ TV is a Kurdish satellite broadcaster which publishes in Kurdish and Turkish as well. The managing director of the Copenhagen-based TV Maonucher  Zanaazi said he was in contact with Murat Karayilan, a leader of the PKK via satellite phone calls since a long time.

Now they are accused of links with PKK and the publishing of photos of children militants in PKK camps has deteriorated the issue.

UNICEF´s Denmark representative Steen Andersen said they will examine the issue after the publication of the photos in a Daneish daily  Berlignske Tidende.

Young children being used as militants in the camps is an absolute clue of  their rights being abused, Anderson said, before adding that they will send official UNICEF observers to the region to monitor the living conditions of  the  children in the camps.
 
He said they will be following the developments in the coming days.

First of all I dont think you our Kurdish problem well .."In fact according to me, you got it all wrong"

Please check the 40.000..(it is actually more than that). See the number and see who got killed by whom..

You will feel embarrassed. And then think about " ignorance, meaning of it, what did I say, who etc"

As far as Diyarbakir is concerned, it does not matter that much what you say, all PKK leaders say that how important Diyarbakir prison was for them.. (remember ignorance etc?  

Foreign intelligence involvement, apart from the fact that you can not show any proof what you say, I will ask you a simple question, get any money you like, and try to persuade an ethnic group in a western country to rebel (for example welsh people to leave from UK)) And then think why you can NOT persuade them to take arms against brits.. (If Brits start to say  no welsh/no language/change the names of welsh towns etc it would be a different matter )

(btw I am really surprised to see some people REALLY STILL believe that it is all conspiracy. Despite the fact that even the President keeps saying it is OUR INTERNAL problem- Really strange and peculiar)

Unfortunately,because in Turkey some believed that it is a conspiracy and just terrorism and it is all west´s plan to divide, governemenst and the army made serious mistakes..Because of their almost state terrorism actions, most of the kurds like PKK and you can not do peace or anything without pkk.. Kurdish people went and voted for them.. The last election was showing that clearly.. And to be honest, they had a state in 1980s where ´there was no Kurd, no kurdish language´ and now they have ´there are kurds and now you have your own KURDISH television channel´. We all know that people who kept saying--this is terrorism only, there are no Kurds in this country , this is all evil west trying to divide Turkey blah blah- ´did NOT give those freedom and recognition of their language to them.

So, they/Kurds know how they got this recognition.. Stop being delusional about pkk and the whole issue..

Yes! Action is important! Although social sciences sources are the combination of ideas, written and verbal sources; These works must be turned to action to create broader effects.

However action is sth. that everyone expect from others. Noone wants to take the responsibility. To be an actionaist we must just do! Not say others to do! Or not criticise someone for not to do!

We followers of Turkishclass are people from various different Nations and ideologic background. Together with that, still we can compromise on some basic points.

Why dont we compromise on a press statement than? Such as on that issue! Let off the children!

Being in action and taking responsibility on the solutions is really meaningful!

What do you think?

I would recommend reading the article from Murat Belge (for my Turkish friends as the article is in  Turkish)

http://www.taraf.com.tr/murat-belge/makale-hakkari-hatirasi-ii.htm

About why those kids would throw stones and why they would prefer throwing stones to playing with barbies..

 I agree all what you say. I am not perfect. I am not an activist. I tell others what to do. But the main difference is I know who I am. I say I  am ashamed of my cowardice when I remember Rachel Corrie´s selfless action. But some people here feel like they are freedom fighters when they say empty words. I think a collective action is way better than empty words. It will not change anything if I say "Don´t send children to prison!" or "PKK, don´t use children!" I f you say something will change I am ready to say these all day.

Yakışıklı hearing the realities made u nervous ha! Stay calm Do u really think that the leaders of PKK are the real leaders??? You must be kiddng me!

Yakışıklı, if u still didn´t get the strategical difference between a european country and a country in the middle east u must be living in a cave for the last 15 years...

Quoting oeince

Yakışıklı hearing the realities made u nervous ha! Stay calm The do u really think that the leaders of PKK are the real leaders??? Ur kiddng me!

Ha ha

I m not kidding at all..and I really like your realities  

Can we have them with cream at the top?

I think we discussed about the importance of Diyarbakir before in tc

 http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_34039_3

in number 22 , I tried to tell what some people from that prison thinks about it..

That post includes some pkk leaders´ opinions as well..

Pkk leaders are telling how important diyarbakir prision has been to them. 

People who says that ´Diyarbakir prision was not that important´, do they really know something we dont know or they are merely trying to prove that ´nothing was done to anybody because they were kurdish´? 

I say it is just the reason that the nippers (PKK leaders) show to society.

You did not read fully..

There are some accounts from people who are not pkk leaders..

I thought PKK leaders´ accounts would be enough ...
In the end they have nothing to gain or lose from saying that..

But however for you accepting it as  a fact means ´we tortured them more because they were kurds´ would mean you were wrong all along about our Kurdish problem. You just believed the people who did not want to finish this war

They will lose the black money of gun and drug traffic.

Do you think they would say to their militans or syphatizans that they are insisting on terrorism for the money?

Do you think that they could say; "we just use you neither Turks, nor u are important to us"?

"All kids all soldiers u kill means more money to us" Do you think they can say that?

Do you think they can say "Yes, some intelligence services use us but whatever, we are fine with that. We could never have that power if we did not sell our souls to them"

Of course they will show themselves like heros. Do you think they are stupid?

If they want rights why dont they support the Kurdish openning?

If they dont do this for money how can you explain that the best cars of Turkey is being sold in Hakkari to a very little minority? The black money owners.

You are sleeping. And you think that your dreams are realities. I am sorry for you!

And i repeat one more time. I never supported the coup goverments acts. They did significant human rights violations to  Communists, Ulkuculer, Religious people, Alevis, Kurdish people etc. I condemn these all.

What happened in that era deepened the problem and made it more complex.

However the basis of the terrorism in Turkey is; intelligence services extraordinary plans in that geography. These services used Kurdish feudal leaders as nippers. The reward of these leaders are black money, respect and power.

I hope my Kurdish brothers and sisters also see that too. I hope that they get aware of that they have been used by them.

I hope Turkish goverment creates social policies which will let Kurdish people to trust their goverment again.

Please dont be sorry for me, please

As I said, you can NOT show any proof about intelligence services blah blah thing!! It is what 80s generals used to say and they made you believe..

I never said that pkk leaders are stupid or heros.. 

But who is against the Kurdish opening is a different matter.. Kurdish population wants and supports Kurdish opening. Who is against it? I am afraid, you go and check who ever says ´this is just a terrorism´ 

If yourself believe that Kurdish opening is a good thing you accept the fact that ´what we did in the past was not right and we have to give some basic rights to these people. then you are saying that it was NOT JUST TERRORISM´.

If the problem is not money and was not money at any stage, Turkey is a rich country, We could have bought all the leaders easily!!

Ah who is against the Kurdish opening in Turkey and why?

That will bring us the problem which some people say ´we have a Turkish problem´!!!!

unfortunately I am not sleeping I am having my chronic shoulder ache..

Proof?

Who divided Iraq into three? USA

Who is the leader of Northern Iraq? Barzani

Who is the president of Iraq? Talabani

Do you think these two are selected in order they are so democratic people or great leaders? No becouse they have been bought.

Do you really think the same think didnt happen in Turkey with the relatives of these two?

If your answer is no, there is no need to talk more.

what you are saying is no proof is it? What is it got to do with our almost 100 years old Kurdish problem?

Usa did not say to us ´deny basic rights to Kurds´, in fact if you go deeper, USA did not have anything to do with our Kurdish assimilation policies or Dersim massacres etc.

They were all our doings..

So can we say that  you are not going to come up with a credible proof  and not going to say anything apart from conspiracy theories??

You are not worth to talk!

Sorry to hear that

Please dont go, I was planning to bring the water melon to eat (in Turkey, sometimes, just before leaving a house you were a guest, the host would say ´ah dont go, we were about the bring the watermelon- daha karpuz kesecektik-) 

I disagree with the limited affect of words. It also depends on where you say those words, and who you say them too. It´s not all about screamig, kicking and shouting. The biggest heroes in history are the people who used their mind and mouth as form of protest, and not their fists. I have the same talk with people who felt sympathy for the PKK, and I will have the same talk with people who feel like they have to jail children who say they support PKK. An intellectual approach towards any problem might work less well on the short term, but on the long term it is the only way that REALLY works.

As one of my personal heroes, Ghandi, said:

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

PS: The quotes about the army in Aghanistan shooting children or whatever was about the U.S. army. There was only one article in that piece about the Dutch hitting civilians, which led to a government wide investigation. No children were hit in this incident, and the government made an official apology to the Afghan people, even though the incident happened because the Taliban used those people as a human shield in the bombing. The Dutch army is internationally well known (nowadays) as being quite diplomatic.

 pkk itself?

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=six-turkish-soldiers-killed-in-rocket-attack-navy-base-2010-05-31

Please, feel free to support this terrorist organisations with full of shit heads!  

Let´s say for a moment that some Kurds were tortured in Diyarbakır Prison in 1980´s...does this give them the right to kill anyone they want in 2010?

Do you happen to know the joke about Temel who recently heard that Christ had been curicified by jews?

Just out of curiosity- are these lines yours? Did you write them? I like the style and the ideas are not too bad.

No, it were the voices in my head who said it... Ofcourse these lines are mine

All I am trying to say here is you can not understand what war is about when you are not actually in it. This happens with every army and the dutch are included. Human error occurs every day everywhere. But for you to blanantly deny the truth when you have not fully searched all avenues is the  reason why people allow the genocide of the palestian´s world wide,

How the dutch army watch 8000 people killed when they were suppose to protect:

Bosnian Serb forces overran lightly-armed Dutch soldiers in the United Nations-designated enclave in July 1995 and subsequently massacred more than 7,000 Muslim men and boys, the worst mass killing in Europe since World War Two

I can´t find it in the English news. But the Dutch media tells that yesterday the Dutch Army killed 6 children and 9 other civilians with F-16´s. The British were first fighting with the Taliban (I think they were loosing) and then the Dutch mujdrimeen came to help their shayateen brothers.

The mudjrimeen are saying that the British army "is taking care of" the injured children and WOMEN.

Peter van Uhm, the devil, says that this unfortunately happened at the hands of the Taliban. The pilot isn´t getting punished and he will still fly. May Allaah give them the punishment of fir´awn. Na´latu-Allaah ´alaihum.

An air strike carried out by a Dutch F-16 fighter jet in the southern Afghan province of Helmand has killed at least eight Afghan civilians, including six children. The F-16 conducted a precision bombing raid on a suburb of Lashkar Gah, capital of Helmand province.

A spokesman for the British armed forces confirmed the casualties, "ISAF forces take every precaution to prevent civilian deaths. But it sadly looks that this case is a result of the enemy shooting at an ISAF patrol. When fire was returned, eight civilians, six of them children, were killed".

The commander of the Dutch armed forces, General Peter van Uhm could not confirm the report but says the airstrike followed extensive fighting between British ISAF forces with Taliban insurgents.

AMSTERDAM - Bij een luchtaanval door een Nederlandse F-16 in de Zuid-Afghaanse provincie Helmand zijn woensdag Afghaanse burgers omgekomen.

© ANP

Dat heeft de commandant der strijdkrachten, generaal Peter van Uhm donderdag vanuit Kabul gemeld.

De F-16 voerde een precisiebombardement uit op een buitenwijk van Lashkar Gah, de hoofdstad van Helmand. De luchtaanval volgde op langdurige gevechten op de grond van Britse ISAF-militairen met de Taliban.

Kinderen

Een woordvoerder van de gouverneur van Helmand sprak tegen het Franse persbureau AFP over negen burgerdoden, onder wie zes kinderen. Getuigen spraken over zeven of acht slachtoffers.

Van Uhm kon die cijfers niet bevestigen. Wel weet hij dat er een vrouw en kinderen gewond zijn geraakt. Die krijgen medische zorg van Britse militairen.


Taliban

Van Uhm zei te betreuren dat er burgerslachtoffers zijn gevallen, maar legt de schuld daarvoor bij de Taliban. Er waren twee Nederlandse F-16´s gestuurd om luchtsteun te geven aan ISAF-militairen die een vuurgevecht voerden. De tegenstander schoot vanuit een Afghaans huis. Achteraf bleken daar burgers, onder wie vrouwen en kinderen te zitten, aldus de commandant.


Triest

Van Uhm: ´´Uiteindelijk zijn we hier om de bevolking te helpen. Het is diep triest dat er mede door het optreden van de Taliban slachtoffers zijn. Dat geeft nog maar eens aan dat de tegenstander zich van god noch verbod iets aantrekt.´´ ISAF praat nu met familie van de slachtoffers en met stamleiders om te kijken hoe de missie de gewonden en nabestaanden kan helpen.

De Nederlandse piloot heeft zich volgens de generaal aan de regels gehouden. ´´De onderzoeken lopen nog. Maar aan de hand van de gegevens die we van de vlieger hebben, kunnen we zien dat hij zich aan alle procedures heeft gehouden.´´

Dat was een hele geruststelling voor de vlieger, aldus de commandant, die de piloot heeft gesproken. De piloot blijft ook nog steeds inzetbaar.

Vooruitgang

Van Uhm was de afgelopen dagen op troepenbezoek in Afghanistan. Behalve de luchtmachtbasis in Kandahar bezocht hij de Nederlandse militairen in Kabul en in Uruzgan. ´´Iedere keer als ik hier kom, zie ik vooruitgang.´´

another nice blog telling how great the dutch army is

http://gerrymaxeyworkshop.com/blogging/?p=403

war is ugly I hate it but lets not be delusional it has occurred since the beginning of time.

Some rescally people still asks for proofs!

Shame on you Handsome!

The soldiers that have been killed in Iskenderun by PKK terrorists who have been managed by Israel will call their account to you on the other side!

I stand corrected about the children´s death.

My problem is, that because of video-images of trigger-happy soldiers, a lot of people have gotten an image of armies shooting people for fun, harassing children, and destroying everything they see. I have some friends in the Dutch army. I´m not a fan of armies, but I do know that it´s not the case that every army in the world goes to other places around the world, just to play "occupier". And I also know that most people in the Dutch army, are happier when they are not shooting. The tactical people in the army try to reduce civilian casualties, and to say that the Dutch army is going to Afghanistan to "kill children" is hurtfull. I will defend my friends who are there, because I have seen how they have actually helped people. I have changed my view of the use of armies after I have seen what they have accomplished.

(I can only speak about the Dutch army, since I don´t know soldiers in other armies.)

 I said sometimes words can be very effective but most of the times not. If you know words are in vain and you still continue to say same thing over and over again either you are showing off or you are scaring of taking action. Gandhi´s words were very effective. But without passive disobedience they would be useless. Passive disobedience is an act too. Acts don´t mean they have to be violent. You can´t change anything with only words. There is a saying in Turkish "The dog which barks, doesn´t bite" For example everybody said Israel to not to hinder human aid to Palestine but they were no use until now. Some activists took action and now it is an international matter. And everyone now condemns Israel. Without this action could it be possible such a thing? I don´t say go and be killed. But at least don´t make noise if you don´t have enough courage to take action like me.

That is what Kurds of Diyarbakir would say....

 he is from mersin not diyarbakir

forever DJxxx

 Mersin...yet another Turkish city that Kurds claim as part of their region...they need a port in mediterranean if they ever be able to found a state by the help of US and EU...

Never heard of this one!!!

Do you have any link/proof etc about it or just one of these Chinese whispers which you come across a lot in retired- men coffee houses?

You are delusional about the subject!!!!

Only delusional people will think SERIOUSLY Israel has been pulling the ropes of PKK and Israel has somehow planned and executed the killings of Iskenderun without a PROOF!!

Do you HAVE ANY PROOF?

What is Israel got to do with our almost 100 years old Kurdish problem?

Was it Israel stopped our Kurdish opening?

Was it Israel tried to assimilate Kurds in Turkey?

was it Israel tortured all those Kurds in Diyarbakir?

was it Israel putting all those stone throwing kids into jail for stone throwing?

Yes.. Shame one YOU and people like you who blindly believes what they were TOLD by the army and racist politicians..

Yes this is a terrorism only  problem..And  terrorism can be solved by fighting only..Then more war..More black money (Turkey´s war related black money is estimated as 50 billion dollars btw).. More deaths..More young people coming back as martyrs .. And eventually separation...

Excuse me..We dont want all above.. We want a peaceful, democratic Turkey in which every citizen can live without needing to HIDE their identity or religion or their political ideas..

And your superficial and paranoid ideas  are against this..

Yes..Shame on you!!

I think the agreement was made with PKK about Kurdish opening.. And I think Kurds showed every indication that they are ready for the opening and they want it..

The latest surge in the attacks is the result of ´Not implementing the opening- because a serious number of people who are against the opening in Turkey- I am afraid that number of attacks will increase, so as the death toll!!

Kurdish opening should have not been stopped or frozen..

People who are against the war and in favor of peace should come up and raise their voice..

By looking at Turkish nationalist approach, some Kurds started to lose faith in living together already

Going back to war can result is separation!!!

Do you want separation? 

 You are like a poisonous snake. Every word coming from your mouth is poisonous. Your words can only make things worse. I also support Kurdish opening but I don´t approve an agreement with terrorists. Do you have any proof that an agreement has been made with PKK. If you don´t you are a liar. I am sick of your shows.

Wonderfully stated!

One thing for me to note. Children must be punished! Not by the same punishment that is practiced on adults but by giving them lessons. They should not go into the conflict areas. If you are a child and went onto streets and attacked the police, military and gov representatives then you must be jailed and bear the consequences of your own acts.

we dont want to raise bullies and anarchists, do we? If they are allowed to demolish and destroy the neighbourhood for the sake of their own ideologies and politics then they must face punishment. Vandal and terror acts are not a game for children to play.

Thank you, paramedic, nice post, informative esp for those who wear pink glasses.

if you pluck out my eye, I will pluck yours. you and I will remain single eyed. the whole world doesnt participate in our eye plucking ritual.

that poor ghandi missed out the second part of that law. tooth for a tooth. what would ghandi have said in this case? "there would be no job for dentists" ?

Language mate, language!!!

Ah, you are that naive that you believe British stopped blood bath in Northern Ireland without talking to IRA? or Spanish stopped ETA without talking to them?

We have been in war with PKK for a long time, have we not?

What sort of naivety do you have which makes you even think you can stop this war without  dismantling PKK? 

Peace mate, peace..We need peace..  You like it or not but we need peace..

Proof of this agreement? I read many articles about how pkk members would surrender and give up their arms and Turkish authorities would not JAIL THEM.

They even started several months ago but unfortunately, nationalist sentiments were marching up and down..The biggest fascist/racist party of Europe -MHP- even threatened to take arms and  go to the mountains like pkk did.. People staged demonstrations against the Kurdish opening as if the war is better

Anyway, it is a deep subject..I think you are not following the news in depth.. The latest thing is, Apo threatened to pull out from the talks since end of May..And here we go:  more incidents more deaths, again!!!!

ps..A warning for you..After reading your post again, pls do not use that type of language.. I wont have a choice but dissect that naivety of yours and you wont like it..!!

It is simple... if I hit you, you will not hit me back with a single blow... because once you hit me, i will hit you back. One action, will not lead to a single reaction, but to a series of events. If somebody hits you, perhaps your whole family will come to your rescue, resulting in lots of hits.

Hit me baby one more tiiiiiiiime

This thread is being locked because of the escalation in personal attacks and insults.