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Kurdish children jailed in Turkey under anti-terror law
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40.       vineyards
1954 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 09:04 am

Yes teacher, I think you will require an attendance sheet too. We are sorry for being so thick headed. If we followed your footprints there would be no problems since there would be no country left.

 

Quoting gokuyum

 

 

 I refer to most of you.If you just chat in front of your computers and don´t take action;you are showing off. The worst part is you are kicking out people who took action like spritzer. You are typical orientalists who talk much as you know everything but do nothing. Yes I do nothing also but I don´t try to save the world with empty words.You can´t save anything or anybody with empty words and without action. You can take Rachel Corrie as an example. You should be either an activist or you shouldn´t talk too loudly.Because one day one can ask you what you did except talking  and you can be ashamed.


 

 

 

41.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 11:54 am

There are some people who go very far in their protests, and it´s nice to see how far people can go to help others. However, being run over by a bulldozer is not the most productive way to change the world. There are many levels of protesting agaist injustice. The first one is opening your mouth. The worst thing is to say "Wir haben es nicht gewust" (We didn´t know)

My first step of protest is actually opening my mouth. I was part of a project in which we went to visit schools throughout Holland, to teach them about the Children´s Rights charters. How these rights applied to the kids in Holland, and how the status of children´s rights were in other countries. No, there were no bulldozers involved, but I think at least I did a little something to make those kids aware of what was happenig in the world. Did I earn the right to complain on this forum? Or is there another level of "doing something" that I need to reach before I´m allowed to have an opinion?

42.       Trudy
7887 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 12:26 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

There are some people who go very far in their protests, and it´s nice to see how far people can go to help others. However, being run over by a bulldozer is not the most productive way to change the world. There are many levels of protesting agaist injustice. The first one is opening your mouth. The worst thing is to say "Wir haben es nicht gewust" (We didn´t know)

My first step of protest is actually opening my mouth. I was part of a project in which we went to visit schools throughout Holland, to teach them about the Children´s Rights charters. How these rights applied to the kids in Holland, and how the status of children´s rights were in other countries. No, there were no bulldozers involved, but I think at least I did a little something to make those kids aware of what was happenig in the world. Did I earn the right to complain on this forum? Or is there another level of "doing something" that I need to reach before I´m allowed to have an opinion?

 

Probably you need to join the army and go to Afghanistan..... 

43.       scalpel
1472 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 01:38 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

 

Probably you need to join the army and go to Afghanistan..... 

 

 in BURKA or in the standard uniform of Royal Dutch Army?  {#emotions_dlg.unsure}

44.       scalpel
1472 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 02:09 pm

 

Quoting SuiGeneris

 

 

Nothing gets birth in prison, i mean such internationally organised terrorism, its name was ASALA before. As we all know...

 

 

 

We Armenians must try to share our enthusiasm with them. For this, we do not have any other means except out motivation, with which we could strengthen ourselves and become live models, and show that we Armenians are capable of defending our and our neighbor’s rights as well. If we create this vigor, then we will have the Kurdish ally. Otherwise, Armenians will remain as raiding and robbing targets for the Kurds, and at no time will they accept us as partners in the struggle against the common enemy.”

Kristapor Mikayelian

(Founding member, A.R.F)



Edited (5/31/2010) by scalpel [warned not to send "long messages"]
Edited (5/31/2010) by scalpel

45.       gezegen
269 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 02:10 pm

 

Quoting scalpel

 

Then what they say is false. It has no sociological perspective nor scientific depth of understanding. Things would be totally different in Turkey if there was no Diyarbakır Prison back to early in 80´s? Turkish Marxists were as much tortured as Kurdish Marxists in some other prisons, if you must know.

 

Even before 80´s military coup, it was a great debate among Kurdish Marxists whether the main contradiction was between imperialist Turks and oppressed Kurds, or between the central oligarchy and the oppressed peoples of both nations, and PKK was founded in 1978 by a group of Kurdish Marxists claiming that the main contradiction was rather based on ethnic differences than the class conflict.

 

 

I am now enlightened, thank you! Those, who claim PKK was born in Diyarbakir prison, evidently don´t know when, how and by whom it was founded. Personally I have learnt thanks to you. But what they do know and obviously you don´t, is that Turkey has a PKK-problem, or in other words PKK is what we today know as PKK, since 1984, a date which corresponds to the period of the first prisoner releases from the prison in question after 1980.

As you missed in my previous post, which you quoted, I will repeat it here again. The word ´torture´ simply and ridiculously sucks, to describe what were done to the prisoners in Diyarbakir prison. It is fair, to some extent, to describe what has happened in other prisons as ´torture´, but in case of Diyarbakir prison, it is something different, beyond ´torture´. As we humanity don´t yet have more corresponding words/adjectives to describe such events, we inevitably use "torture, inhumane, fierce, brutal, etc.", which can be close but not exact describing and which in some cases works. Like we inevitably use ´genocide´ to describe what Nazis did to the Jewish.

An homework to you: what might, in your opinion, be the reason why most of those, imprisoned between 1980-1990 in Diyarbakir prison, even deny ´the torture´, some never talk about it at all and only a few talked about their life there even after 25-30 years later, and hence we today still know little about the Diyarbakir prison fact, while we know well enough what happened in other prisons thanks to ´Turkish Marxists´ tellings?

46.       gezegen
269 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 02:13 pm

 

Quoting Trudy

 

Probably you need to join the army and go to Afghanistan..... 

 

To help or to shoot at afghani children? {#emotions_dlg.unsure}

47.       barba_mama
1629 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 06:34 pm

The Dutch army hasn´t shot any Afghan children, thank you very much Not all armies in the world are the same.

48.       Paramedic
24 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 09:08 pm

 

Quoting barba_mama

The Dutch army hasn´t shot any Afghan children, thank you very much Not all armies in the world are the same.

 

many things occur that the public are never told why because

most could not handle the truth

but from what I know all respond the same when out in the field.

 

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2009/10/afghan_civilians_killed_in_dut.php

http://article.wn.com/view/2010/02/21/Dutch_troops_to_leave_Afghanistan_as_planned_PM/

 

 

 

as a soldier and a paramedic who has been out in the field , I can say you don´t always

have a choice who you shoot  when you are under attack, nor do you always know.

Many kids are used as bate and armed up to the gills. This is not the only war that uses children. Please do a google search of children used as weapons for war.

 

R.O.E. (rules of engagement) for Military troops and repeated by commanders

of the NATO troops is ´if you feel threatened by someone at anytime you can

remove that threat´. Thus you have a very wide discretion placed upon the

individual soldiers perception on what if any threat is presented. Someone might

percieve a threat simply by a Afghan villager sticking his/her head outside their

door. Another might perceive a threat if a young Afghan holding a gun is peering

thru a window. Sadly, in the Marjah campaign a convoy of Afghan civilians fleeing

the fight were perceived as a threat and a air-strike was called in which killed all

of them.

Complicating that accurate perception is the wide scale use of anti-depressants

which hype the sensory inputs of the soldiers and ambian to knock the soldiers

out to sleep. Ambian intoxication when taken for many days invariably leads to

confused thinking and a walking while still asleep condition. Either of those two

drugs can greatly lead a soldier to ´see´ or sense a threat to their life where no

such threat exists.

An Afghan man/boy  with a strange smile and holding his cell phone could be

mistaken to be a Taliban soldier holding a remote detonator and immediately

dropped with a 3 round burst.

 

 

None of this should of ever happened: 40 years ago Afghanistan was a very

cultured city look it up.

Afghanistan wouldn´t of have to fight the Soviets had it not been for the

West´s intervention in the country. King Daud made a mistake by siding

with the West and later Mujahedeen made a mistake fighting the Soviets.

They should´ve allowed the Soviets build Afghanistan and today Afghanistan

wouldn´t be a ruined desert occupied by Nato bases getting ready for future

energy battles with China/russia.

He never saw it coming. On Jan. 4, 2002, Sgt. Nathan Ross Chapman

was the first U.S. serviceman to be killed by hostile fire in Afghanistan.

A 31-year-old Green Beret who also served in the Persian Gulf War,

Chapman was killed by sniper fire after meeting with local tribal leaders

in Paktia province. He knew the dangers he faced but probably never

imagined he would die from a bullet fired by a child soldier.

An isolated incident? Sadly, no. Seeing gun-wielding children as

young as 7 or 8 shooting at U.S. troops may shock the American public,

but war no longer is the exclusive domain of adults. Child soldiers are a

growing phenomenon in Third World countries as gun manufacturers

have produced ever-lighter assault weapons that can be carried by

children. By definition a child soldier is younger than 18. While the

United States allows those as young as 17 to serve with parental

consent, many Third World countries appear to be robbing grammar

schools to support their regimes.

Today, as many as 300,000 child soldiers are engaged in military

fighting in approximately 30 countries on every continent except

Antarctica and Australia. In addition to Afghanistan, for example

, child soldiers are serving in armies in Angola, Uganda, Pakistan,

Burma, Sierra Leone, Colombia and Chechnya. Not even little girls are

exempt from this conscription. Often they find themselves forced into

sexual slavery or used as human minesweepers.

 

 



Edited (5/30/2010) by Paramedic
Edited (5/30/2010) by Paramedic
Edited (5/31/2010) by Paramedic

49.       metehan2001
501 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 11:22 pm

-



Edited (5/30/2010) by metehan2001
Edited (5/30/2010) by metehan2001
Edited (5/30/2010) by metehan2001
Edited (5/30/2010) by metehan2001
Edited (5/31/2010) by admin [Deleted because message was breaking page layout ]

50.       gezegen
269 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 11:47 pm

metehan - the children in question here are the ones in streets throwing stones at the armed forces, not the ones supposedly in guerilla camps of the PKK.

 

P.S. Edit your post, so that one could post their reply. Currently it is technically impossible due to copy&paste of a formatted frame, unless you quote someone´s post and then delete the whole quote, like I have done now.

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