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Kurdish children jailed in Turkey under anti-terror law
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50.       gezegen
269 posts
 30 May 2010 Sun 11:47 pm

metehan - the children in question here are the ones in streets throwing stones at the armed forces, not the ones supposedly in guerilla camps of the PKK.

 

P.S. Edit your post, so that one could post their reply. Currently it is technically impossible due to copy&paste of a formatted frame, unless you quote someone´s post and then delete the whole quote, like I have done now.

51.       oeince
582 posts
 31 May 2010 Mon 12:03 am

Diyarbakır prison, Diyarbakır prison… So you think a terrorist organization which is the killer of 40000 people; a very active player of gun and drug smuggle is based upon the events in Diyarbakır prison? How ignorant you are!

 

Most people living in Turkey are not supporting the Militarial Goverments’ acts in 80s. 80s is not a period that we memorialize with gratitude. However what happened in Diyarbakır is not more than what happened in İstanbul or any other city or prison.

 

The issue is; international intelligence services provoked some feudal leaders in exchange for more money and power.

 

PKK does not represent Kurdish people. Kurdish people are the main group which suffers from PKK. While PKK does not refrain to use kids for their bloody sakes; which bumpkin can think they do not use Kurdish society for their sakes? PKK is a one of the bloodiest terrorist organizations. And it’s stupid to look back the Diyarbakır prison to find its roots.

 

 

52.       metehan2001
501 posts
 31 May 2010 Mon 12:54 am

 

PKK uses children not only in Turkey but Europe too. The following article explains the details.

http://www.turknorthamerica.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1348

KURDISH TERRORIST ORGANIZATION PKK

and

Child Recruitment and Deployment

The PKK is based in Turkey but has camps in the Bekaa Valley of Lebanon and in the district of Makhmur in the Kurdish area of Iraq. Smaller camps are still operational in very mountainous terrain close to the Turkish and Iranian borders.

From 1994, it appears that the PKK started to systematically recruit more and more children and even created children´s regiments. It was claimed, for example, that a children´s battalion named Tabura Zaroken Sehit Agit was composed of three divisions and was, in theory at least, run by a committee of five children aged between 8 and 12 years. Both boys and girls are recruited by the PKK. In 1998, it was reported that the PKK had 3,000 children within its ranks, more than 10 per cent of whom were girls. The youngest child witnessed with the PKK was 7 years old. 

The PKK was reported to have lost as many as 1,000 guerrillas during a battle with the Kurdish Democratic Party in 1995. Many boys and girls were among the victims, according to KDP sources. In 1997, a 14-year-old girl was one of several female guerrillas taken prisoner by the Turkish army during an offensive in Turkey´s Cudi mountains. She had joined the PKK the previous year and had received political and military training at a PKK camp in northern Iraq. She was a Syrian national. 

Some disturbing reports have been released on recruitment practices of the PKK in Western Europe. During the summer of 1998, Rädda Barnen learnt of PKK recruitment drives in Swedish schools. Seventeen minors were invited to attend a ´summer camp´ in July in northern Sweden before being recruited to serve the PKK in south-east Turkey. By mid-August 1998, only three of them had returned. Many families have reported their children missing to the police. 

A French magazine reported recently on the activities of the PKK in Kurdish communities living in France (about 100,000 people). The French police estimate the number of active PKK members at 300. In addition to taxes imposed on their incomes, some Kurdish families have to support the struggle by giving up their own children. Up to now, no family has formally complained to the police, instead preferring to claim that their child has run away. The PKK uses ‘cultural associations’ in order to indoctrinate these children, most during 15 days in a camp in the Larzac (South of France). The oldest have to follow the ‘big training period’ which takes place outside the child´s country. There, youths receive paramilitary training and the toughest go to the frontline after a final training at the Iranian border.

In Germany, the Police of Bielefeld have inquired into the activities of the PKK in Ostwestfalen-Lippe. In addition to other activities such as racketeering and drug smuggling, the PKK has also forced children, teenagers and youths to join ‘political courses’ for a few days. Sometimes these course have taken place abroad, notably in Belgium and in the Netherlands. It seems that this usually happened with the consent of parents. One girl who had been kidnapped was returned by the police after enquiries among members of the PKK. Two other children are still missing and one other child is believed to be missing. All these children are below the age of 14 years. 

Reports have been received from other cities in Germany. On a number of occasions, the German NGO, the Gesellschaft für bedrohte Völker (GfbV), has denounced the abduction of children by the PKK in Germany. In Celle, for example, it was reported that Kurdish parents of children who have died in hostilities or who are still fighting have been honoured during a PKK celebration in March 1998. On 22 November 1998, the criminal police of Hanover reported that three more children had been trained for guerrilla in camps in the Netherlands and Belgium. 

The GfbV also reported that thousands of parents in many Western countries are mourning their children who have died in combat or whose children have been abducted. It said that messages encouraging the recruitment of children have been released on MED-TV, the PKK´s satellite television. In Cologne, the German Coalition has been informed of a case of a 16-year-old Kurdish girl who is still missing since March 1999 after having joined a cultural meeting in a Kurdish centre.

According to the Turkish authorities, similar abductions have also occurred in Armenia, including three children who were abducted in Yerevan.

TURKISH AMERICAN SECURITY FOUNDATION

Be a Man PKK, Don’t Use The Children.

53.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 31 May 2010 Mon 01:31 am

 

Quoting barba_mama

There are some people who go very far in their protests, and it´s nice to see how far people can go to help others. However, being run over by a bulldozer is not the most productive way to change the world. There are many levels of protesting agaist injustice. The first one is opening your mouth. The worst thing is to say "Wir haben es nicht gewust" (We didn´t know)

My first step of protest is actually opening my mouth. I was part of a project in which we went to visit schools throughout Holland, to teach them about the Children´s Rights charters. How these rights applied to the kids in Holland, and how the status of children´s rights were in other countries. No, there were no bulldozers involved, but I think at least I did a little something to make those kids aware of what was happenig in the world. Did I earn the right to complain on this forum? Or is there another level of "doing something" that I need to reach before I´m allowed to have an opinion?

 I agree opening mouth is the first step. But you can´t stop in the first step if you want to change something. Words can be sometimes very effective but most of the times not. Some people won´t want to listen you. Most of the time a collective action is better than words. Everyone condemns Israel and USA for their crimes but they don´t listen anybody. Words are useless. After you understand words are no use and you keep saying same things over and over again knowing they will change nothing you are either showing off or you are afraid of taking action. I am reading now Frantz Fanon´s Wretched of The World. It tells the struggle of colony people and how words are useless without action. There is a famous foreword of J.P.Sartre for this book. You can find it here.http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/sartre/1961/preface.htm Read it carefully and you will understand what I mean. I don´t approve unnecessary violence. But taking action doesn´t mean only violence. Rachel Corrie´s action wasn´t violent. But it was very effective. I don´t advice you to be killed. But you should do more than talking. Rachel Corrie is now a martyr. She gives me hope for a good and peaceful future.She gives me courage. She tells me you must be brave and afraid of nothing when you are right. If she just talked and did nothing I wouldn´t even know her. I wouldn´t want her be killed by a bulldozer. But I respect her decision. She was so brave and when I remember this selfless act I am ashamed of my cowardice.

 

 I think only way to solve Kurdish problem is diplomacy for Turkey. I support the government´s Kurdish opening. But I am sure Kurdish politicians will want more. Their ultimate goal is having their own country. But Turkey still suffers the traumas of first world war. We lost many lands. And nobody want to lose more lands. It has become a taboo to even talk about giving more lands. So without a war Turkey will never allow Kurds to have their own country. My thoughts are these about this matter.

 

Note: By the way I am not a marxist. I hate marxism. I am a social democrat.

 

 



Edited (5/31/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (5/31/2010) by gokuyum
Edited (5/31/2010) by gokuyum

54.       Paramedic
24 posts
 31 May 2010 Mon 01:45 am

these children that throw rocks were taught somewhere to hate the turkish army

UNICEF: PKK keeps child militants in its Camps

Monday, May 24th 2010 7:37 PM

 


Copenhagen, May 24 (AKnews) - While the echoes of the links between a Kurdish satellite channel ROJ TV and the PKK is still continuing in Denmark; the photos of children being used as militants in PKK Camps have motivated UNICEF to act.
 
ROJ TV is a Kurdish satellite broadcaster which publishes in Kurdish and Turkish as well. The managing director of the Copenhagen-based TV Maonucher  Zanaazi said he was in contact with Murat Karayilan, a leader of the PKK via satellite phone calls since a long time.

Now they are accused of links with PKK and the publishing of photos of children militants in PKK camps has deteriorated the issue.

UNICEF´s Denmark representative Steen Andersen said they will examine the issue after the publication of the photos in a Daneish daily  Berlignske Tidende.

Young children being used as militants in the camps is an absolute clue of  their rights being abused, Anderson said, before adding that they will send official UNICEF observers to the region to monitor the living conditions of  the  children in the camps.
 
He said they will be following the developments in the coming days.

55.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 31 May 2010 Mon 01:57 am

 

Quoting oeince

Diyarbakır prison, Diyarbakır prison… So you think a terrorist organization which is the killer of 40000 people; a very active player of gun and drug smuggle is based upon the events in Diyarbakır prison? How ignorant you are!

 

Most people living in Turkey are not supporting the Militarial Goverments’ acts in 80s. 80s is not a period that we memorialize with gratitude. However what happened in Diyarbakır is not more than what happened in İstanbul or any other city or prison.

 

The issue is; international intelligence services provoked some feudal leaders in exchange for more money and power.

 

PKK does not represent Kurdish people. Kurdish people are the main group which suffers from PKK. While PKK does not refrain to use kids for their bloody sakes; which bumpkin can think they do not use Kurdish society for their sakes? PKK is a one of the bloodiest terrorist organizations. And it’s stupid to look back the Diyarbakır prison to find its roots.

 

 

 

First of all I dont think you our Kurdish problem well .."In fact according to me, you got it all wrong"

Please check the 40.000..(it is actually more than that). See the number and see who got killed by whom..

You will feel embarrassed. And then think about " ignorance, meaning of it, what did I say, who etc"

 

As far as Diyarbakir is concerned, it does not matter that much what you say, all PKK leaders say that how important Diyarbakir prison was for them.. (remember ignorance etc?  

 

Foreign intelligence involvement, apart from the fact that you can not show any proof what you say, I will ask you a simple question, get any money you like, and try to persuade an ethnic group in a western country to rebel (for example welsh people to leave from UK)) And then think why you can NOT persuade them to take arms against brits.. (If Brits start to say  no welsh/no language/change the names of welsh towns etc it would be a different matter )

(btw I am really surprised to see some people REALLY STILL believe that it is all conspiracy. Despite the fact that even the President keeps saying it is OUR INTERNAL problem- Really strange and peculiar)

 

Unfortunately,because in Turkey some believed that it is a conspiracy and just terrorism and it is all west´s plan to divide, governemenst and the army made serious mistakes..Because of their almost state terrorism actions, most of the kurds like PKK and you can not do peace or anything without pkk.. Kurdish people went and voted for them.. The last election was showing that clearly.. And to be honest, they had a state in 1980s where ´there was no Kurd, no kurdish language´ and now they have ´there are kurds and now you have your own KURDISH television channel´. We all know that people who kept saying--this is terrorism only, there are no Kurds in this country , this is all evil west trying to divide Turkey blah blah- ´did NOT give those freedom and recognition of their language to them.

So, they/Kurds know how they got this recognition.. Stop being delusional about pkk and the whole issue..

 



Edited (5/31/2010) by thehandsom
Edited (5/31/2010) by thehandsom
Edited (5/31/2010) by thehandsom

56.       oeince
582 posts
 31 May 2010 Mon 02:09 am

Yes! Action is important! Although social sciences sources are the combination of ideas, written and verbal sources; These works must be turned to action to create broader effects.

 

However action is sth. that everyone expect from others. Noone wants to take the responsibility. To be an actionaist we must just do! Not say others to do! Or not criticise someone for not to do!

 

We followers of Turkishclass are people from various different Nations and ideologic background. Together with that, still we can compromise on some basic points.

 

Why dont we compromise on a press statement than? Such as on that issue! Let off the children!

Being in action and taking responsibility on the solutions is really meaningful!

 

What do you think?

 

57.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 31 May 2010 Mon 02:16 am

I would recommend reading the article from Murat Belge (for my Turkish friends as the article is in  Turkish)

http://www.taraf.com.tr/murat-belge/makale-hakkari-hatirasi-ii.htm

About why those kids would throw stones and why they would prefer throwing stones to playing with barbies..

 

58.       gokuyum
5050 posts
 31 May 2010 Mon 02:29 am

 

Quoting oeince

Yes! Action is important! Although social sciences sources are the combination of ideas, written and verbal sources; These works must be turned to action to create broader effects.

 

However action is sth. that everyone expect from others. Noone wants to take the responsibility. To be an actionaist we must just do! Not say others to do! Or not criticise someone for not to do!

 

We followers of Turkishclass are people from various different Nations and ideologic background. Together with that, still we can compromise on some basic points.

 

Why dont we compromise on a press statement than? Such as on that issue! Let off the children!

Being in action and taking responsibility on the solutions is really meaningful!

 

What do you think?

 

 I agree all what you say. I am not perfect. I am not an activist. I tell others what to do. But the main difference is I know who I am. I say I  am ashamed of my cowardice when I remember Rachel Corrie´s selfless action. But some people here feel like they are freedom fighters when they say empty words. I think a collective action is way better than empty words. It will not change anything if I say "Don´t send children to prison!" or "PKK, don´t use children!" I f you say something will change I am ready to say these all day.

 

59.       oeince
582 posts
 31 May 2010 Mon 02:34 am

Yakışıklı hearing the realities made u nervous ha! Stay calm Do u really think that the leaders of PKK are the real leaders??? You must be kiddng me!

 

Yakışıklı, if u still didn´t get the strategical difference between a european country and a country in the middle east u must be living in a cave for the last 15 years...



Edited (5/31/2010) by oeince

60.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 31 May 2010 Mon 02:37 am

 

Quoting oeince

Yakışıklı hearing the realities made u nervous ha! Stay calm The do u really think that the leaders of PKK are the real leaders??? Ur kiddng me!

 

Ha ha

I m not kidding at all..and I really like your realities lol lol 

Can we have them with cream at the top? lol

 

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