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I agree with Joey. It is no longer possible to held a normal debate on this website. I for myself hold the rule that if I dont know enough about something, I wont reply to it, and if I do it is with questions. So maybe I should not write now, because I dont know enough about the topic. But since the people who advertise with the fact that all they say is right, that other people are short-sighted and that the only reason we can't hold a debate anymore is because some (Turkish) members can't accept criticism, started to post useless, meaningless, rude and offensive messages around the forms, I thought I might as well just reply too.
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İt is a misconception to think that Turkish people do not criticise their country and government. How else could people organize meetings of millions of people who do not agree with the government and let this know in an organized way?
Today when I came to my neighbours, they were watching a programme in which 2 persons debated on the fact that Turkey shouldn't ever be ruled on religious grounds and that people should stop saying 'This is the work of Allah', but create their own world and ask scientifical questions. After the programme, the women talked about what was going on and what things they wanted government to do different.
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Also, I understand the Turkish attitude that says 'foreigners cannot understand our situation'. It is such a diverse country, with such a 'two-faced' history, that some problems maybe need to be solved in a way other countries cant understand. Turkey is a beautiful country, and developed in many ways, but the way of thinking of many people isnt as 'developed, modern' (no offense) as the people in Western Europe. So it is very normal that Turkish people have the feeling others cant understand them, because when ways of thinking are different, solving problems is different too. Yes, human rights are the same in all the world, but getting people to keep them requires different things in different countries.
What is of importance now, is that the country doesn't fall in hands of the wrong government (the religious one, from my point of view), who can easily 'brainwash' or 'play' with peoples minds, because they are fragile.
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I think it is so easy to say that Turkish people can't stand criticism. (Im sorry I just cant spellthat word). I agree that its one of their weaker points, I noticed that in friendly discussions with friends, on a tv-programme where a foreign contestant doubted if the Turkish judge had judged her and her Turkish-ice-skating partner right, and after this 10 minutes of discussion followed from the Turkish side. Completely unnecessary. There are many topics that are hard to talk about with some (many?) Turkish people, they cant endure criticism well. But there are two sides of the story.
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And as a last point, there are some people on this website who seem to think that mltm doesnt have a modern way of thinking and is very patriarchic (however that is spelled  ) , but if you ask me she is one of the girls that does talk and think about what is going on. And that is what Turkey needs. Not needless debates on the fact that they cant endure criticism and that we in the West are better because we dont like our governments and are not afraid to say it.
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