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Forum Messages Posted by thehandsom

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Thread: Our racist oath

91.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 25 Nov 2013 Mon 12:21 am

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

sure. i lived in those places. dont tell me to search more. its you who has to research, being the ignorant one here.

 

Really? where did you see they are forcing people to be´Dutch/German´?

Obviously integration policies are NOT about forcing for  immigrants to become Dutch German French etc.

So where is this forcing you believed exists?

Or just making it up? lol

 

Search more!!



Thread: Our racist oath

92.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 10:24 pm

 

Quoting alameda

A citizen of China is called Chinese, a citizen of Canada is called Canadian....obvoously, a citizen of Turkey would be called a Turk.....need I go on? I asked what term you prefer? Of course renaming the country would be required, is that do you want?

People keep having problems because some people agitate problems. I´ve noticed in areas, with strategic territory or valuable resources, people seem to be turned against one another. It isns´t that difficult as at his most base nature, humans are tribal, like various animals, sheep, goats, oxen, or flocks of birds. 

I am not Turkish, thus don´t have a pony in this race, I am just a history buff who has found the Levant interesting historic area. That is why when you go on about racism, see the absurdity of that comment. Anatolia & Thrace are some of the oldest most traveled crossroads of the world. Humans have been blending there for many thousands of years. 

To try to separate a group, like claiming this area is the homeland of XXX or ZZZ is inaccurate. Study a little archology. 

“Naturally the common people don´t want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” Hermann Goering

As for the rest of your rant, I have studied those issues. You mention the Armenians....

I notice you never mention the Hunchacks, who were established in 1887....."and what was their strategy?

Taken from the Hunchak.org website. ...I´m not linking to it due to malware on the site. 


"III. The Hunchakian program advocated revolution as the only means of reaching the immediate objective. The arena of revolutionary activity was designed as Turkish Armenia. The Party believed that the existing social organisation in Turkish Armenia could be changed by violence against the Turkish government and described the following methods. Propaganda, Agitation, Terror, Organisation, and Peasant and Worker Activities.

Propaganda was to be directed to the people to educate them toward two goals: The basic reasons and the proper time for revolution against the government; The social order that was to be established after the successful revolution.

Agitation and Terror were needed to "elevate the spirit of the people". Demonstrations against the government, refusal to pay taxes, demands for reforms, and hatred of the aristocracy were part of the party´s agitation campaign. Terror was to be used as a method of protecting the people and winning their confidence in the Hunchak program."

The fact of the matter is there are always a variety of different ethnic groups in an area, all humans are related, we are cousins.

Fixed borders are a recent phenomenon, formerly people were more mobile and crossed, stayed here a while then went there. We are similar to the birds and other creatures. 

 

 

 

 

We wont need to change the name of the country. We should just learn how to live together and that will be all..

Apart from anything else, say a Turk like me accepted  this racist oath: Closed my eyes, closed my ears etc. But what about the others. Specially the Kurds!! They dont want it naturally.. And that is their basic human rights. Why would a Kurdish kid should be forced to say that every morning? Just to please a few nationalists? Why are we NOT able to accept a Kurd as a Kurd?

That is where nationalism is coming into equation. The nationalism, which you are talking as if everybody has to have it, as you see here is  making people to see others enemy. They think anybody who does not want to say this oath is their enemy. This ideology could divide Turkey.

 



Thread: Our racist oath

93.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 10:11 pm

 

 

 

Do you seriously think all these integration policies meant ´FORCING PEOPLE TO BE DUTCH/GERMAN etc´?

Search more!!

 

 



Thread: what caught my eye today

94.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 10:08 pm

 

Quoting giz

Beykoz - 1900 ler ferah istanbul simdi nefes alacak yer yok.. ( pic.twitter.com/EpZnWFiHlY

Gömülü resim için kalıcı bağlantı

 

Ah... {#emotions_dlg.love}



Thread: Our racist oath

95.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 02:22 pm

 

Quoting alameda

Well, I disagree with you. In the case of a Turkish citizen it´s not in reference to a race, it´s in reference to nationality.

So let me get this straight, you are against nation & flags, you can´t say what other term you would like to call citizens of Turkey, you are even against having a flag, so it seems in your post # 88 in this thread. "...I would support banning to use any flag..... "

I´m afraid you are not going to find any place that doesn´t have citizen requirments. Here is a guide to citizenships in a variety of different nations. I might suggest you go over what a nation is and what a nationality is

Like it or not, you will be rather lonely and quite vulnerable as a stateless person. 

 

 

 

 

Well let me tell you one thing Alameda:

As a turkish citizen, I am telling you "the word Turk refers to a race/ethinicity". And as I said many times, ´apart from a few sentences, it was used to describe a race/ethnicity´. 

I am a citizen of Turkey and I have always been proud of it.

What I am not or you have to get a grip of the fact that you can be a proud citizen of your country without a flag fetishism or without being a racist or even without being a nationalist!!

Racism/nationalism is not a  requirement of citizenship!!

ps.. Look. This nationalism does not stay there as innocent as you try to show. Check what sort of ideology is behind of killing 17.000 unlawfully during the fight with kurds in 1990s, check which ideology was behind the  pogrom of 1956 in Istanbul, check the idology supported all those coups in Turkey, check the ideological  back ground of 1915 Armenian deportation.. Do I need to give more examples? why do you need we are still struggling to live together? why do you think Turkey is one of a few countries  almost does not have any ethnic minorities?  



Edited (11/22/2013) by thehandsom



Thread: Our racist oath

96.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 01:58 pm

 

Quoting AlphaF

 

 

What else do you know about fetishists, Agop ?

 

do you need to repeat yourself with the same racism again and again as if to say I dont have any logical  thing to say any more ? lol

 

 



Thread: Our racist oath

97.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 01:15 pm

 

Quoting burakk

and another thing that infuriates me is this new-age trendy anti-"racism" in turkey. when did this trend start? when akp came into govt. then they fucked all nationalist things and you guys real face came out. so your idea of anti-"racism" required nothing but a govt change. before that you guys were all nice and tidy turkish citizens who faked tears in bir başkadır benim memleketim songs. and now someone came and said "ok im the prime minister now i ban all turkish flags" you belly dancers all went along with it. so what will happen when he says "ok im selling this country to america"? you will also go along with it. your whole philosophy and ideology is about syncronising it to the philosophy of the governing party or whomever is in charge. just like the ottoman citizens who sided with the british and french when the ottoman empire has been invaded by british and french.

 

turkey. land of mosaics. on one hand you see a mother who has lost his son a matyr to the firefight and says "i sacrifice him to the country. i have another son. i would sacrifice him as well. as long as the land is intact" and on the other hand you have people who say "turkish flag? man im not turkish. turkish land? please dont be racist". its like mystic.

 

I am not going to defend the PM. I dont care what he does or he does NOT.

But I have never seen anybody banning the Turkish flags!! (or selling Turkey to USA. Get a grip with the facts!! No one is banning the flags or no one is seeling the country to anybody!! lol )

But I know many behave like flag fetishists!!

They make flags so big that they can be seen from the space!!

I even remember an incident where 10-11 yo kids dyed a flag by cutting their hands and use their blood.. 

For those parents, yes, I would support banning to use of any flag because they belittle my country´s image!  

 



Edited (11/22/2013) by thehandsom



Thread: Our racist oath

98.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 01:00 pm

 

Quoting burakk

 

 

why not? they force people to become dutch/german/french/british in europe. or in russia. you can say you are kalmyk but if you say you want to throw away your russian id and become independent, then they invade you (their own land actually) and nobody says anything. because russia is big, strong, nuclear etc. as i said before, the thing that infuriates me most with the petty anti-racists is that their anti-racism can only touch the politically weak countries. 1.5 million iraqis killed? oh sure! its america! they have to be right! but fuck turks and their racist oath! those pigs who sing their own national anthem! bla ba

 

You have to get a grip on what is hapenning in the world!!

Nobody is forced in civilised world to become dutch/german etc.. That is the halucination and imaginary world you have been forced to live and lies you have been brain washed to believe.

And please.. Stop commenting before searching about your subject!!

 

 



Thread: Our racist oath

99.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 22 Nov 2013 Fri 10:33 am

 

Quoting alameda

My comment was quite specific, and has nothing to do with the other countries you mentioned, in an attempt to divert the conversation. I asked specifically it it was Turk you objected to, you did not answer. If so, please give us a link to the post. 

Turk is not a race, it´s the name of a nationality, and the name of an ethnic group....similar naming conventions have been used in other countries..as I pointed out to you in an earlier post. I asked you what you would prefer, no answer. To me it seems you are hung up on the name Turk. Would you prefer Lasland, Kurdistan, Zazalaz? Trakitolia? What do you want, really, other than to sow discontent, that is?

Here it is again: 

Most countries have settled on a name for their country. Many of the names actually are derived from some tribe or another, but we don´t hear the people getting upset and calling the names racist. Here, take a look:

Endonyms and most exonyms for Poles and Poland derive from the name of the West Slavic tribe of the Polans 

The name "England" is derived from the Old English name Englaland, which means "land of the Angles". The Angles were one of the Germanic tribes that settled in Great Britain during the Early Middle Ages. 

The name "France" comes from the Latin Francia, which means "country of the Franks". There are various theories as to the origin of the name Franks: one is that it is derived from the Proto-Germanic word frankon which translates as javelin or lance as the throwing axe of the Franks was known as a francisca.[20] Another proposed etymology is that in an ancient Germanic language, Frank means free as opposed to slave.

Hungary, Atilla the Hun

In the 7th century, Bulgar tribes (likely of central Asian Turkic origin), migrated to the lower courses of the rivers Danube, Dniester and Dniepr under the leadership of Asparukh. After 670 he moved into the Balkan Peninsula with a horde of 50,000 Bulgars across the Danube and in 680 severed Scythia Minor from the Byzantine Empire. A peace treaty with Byzantium in 681 and the establishment of a permanent capital at Pliska south of the Danube marked the beginning of the First Bulgarian Empire. The Bulgars gradually mixed up with the local population, adopting a common language on the basis of Slavonic."

 

 

 

Alameda for the last time:

-The word "Turk" is a name for an ethnicity.  As a word, except a few sentences, it has been used as a name for a  race/ethinicity. What is my ethnicity? I am a Turk? what does a person who comes from the East of Turkey, say about his ethnicity? He/she is a Kurd. Why would you force a Kurd, an Armenian, a Greek child to force to say ´he/she is a Turk?´ can you give a logical answer? NO.

-I dont prefer any other name. Why do you need any name as if  there is no life without screaming an oath .You do NOT need to be NATIONALISTIC. That is not compulsary. Being a good citizen will be enough.

-Nobody objects the existing of the races or ethnicities.

-BUT GLORIFYING A RACE IS RACISM.

-The past oath was a racist oath.

 

 

 



Edited (11/22/2013) by thehandsom



Thread: Our racist oath

100.       thehandsom
7403 posts
 21 Nov 2013 Thu 11:50 am

 

Quoting alameda

Um....well you must excuse me, but I sure didn´t see it. Can you direct me to where you explained what you meant by the term "racist" in regards to the oath?  I asked it it was the word Turk....but you didn´t answer that...(maybe I missed it?) Is it that you are against oaths in general, do you have a better one you would like to share?

 

 

 

Alameda, I wonder where you were when we were discussing about ´Turk´ is being the name of a race and apart from a few sentence, it has been used for the race. Obviously, it has been bothering many people.  Because they are not Turkish!! Would you be happy to see your children forced to scream their heads of every morning if you lived in Turkey as an American citizen?

And it really naive to think the entire thing  was not racist.

Can you defend the racist italian or german oaths from 1930s? 

No..

You can not.

It is the same thing.

It was racist and it is gone for good.

 



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