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"-En", "-Dik" ve "-EcEk" Orta├ž Eki
1.       Ytchan
4 posts
 17 Aug 2008 Sun 09:34 pm

Can anybody please explain to me WHEN and WHICH one to use in the sentence?

 

And when using "-Dik" or "-EcEk"WHEN to use possessive?

 

Thanks

2.       CANLI
5084 posts
 17 Aug 2008 Sun 11:11 pm

İ cant help you much,but maybe you will find some answers here ?!

 

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_11806_-1

http://www.turkishclass.com/forumTitle_11068

 

3.       erdinc
2151 posts
 18 Aug 2008 Mon 01:07 am

This is an advanced topic. It would take pages to cover all the details. I will give a very short summary.

 

These suffixes are used instead the relative pronouns ´who´, ´that´, ´whom´, ´where´. Here are a few examples:

 

1. the places where we have been : gittiğimiz yerler

2. the dog that barks : havlayan köpek

3. the car which broke down : bozulan araba

4. the man who just run away  : az önce kaçıp giden adam

 

Let´s take sentence three and look closer. To brake down is something that happaned to the car. It is a description or feature of the car.  The pronoun ´which´ is connecting this feature to the car. Since we don´t have this pronoun In Turkish, we add a suffix to the verb. I think now you have an idea about when to use these participle suffixes.

 

-en is the noun participle. -dik is the past tense participle. And -ecek is the future tense participle. But these participles are not limited to any tense. They are timeless.

 

One thing that is easy about this topic is that the verbal adjective (the word that takes the suffix) is always before the noun it modifies.

 

You also wanted to know how to decide which one to use. This is a detailed issue. In general:

 

a) -an, -en is used if the noun it modifies is the subject of the verb in the relative clause.

 

Example 1:

"The dog that bit me, run away."

Here the relative clause is "the dog that bit me..." The verb in the reative clause is ´to bite´. The subject of this verb is ´the dog´. "To bite" should refer to this subject. Does it? Yes, it does because to bite is a description or feature of the dog.

 "Beni ısıran köpek kaçtı".  

 

First, find the verb in the relative clause . Then find the subject of that verb. If you are describing this subject then you can only use -an, -en. The other two participles are never used that way.

 

b) Generally -dik or -ecek is used if the noun it describes is the object of the verb in the relative clause. -ecek is used if the relative clause (not the whole sentence) refers to a future situation.

 

Example 2:

"A person that I don´t know died yesterday"

First thing we do is to identify the relative clause: "A person that I don´t know ..."  You need to think this as "There is a person I don´t know". ´To know´ is the verb. ´I´ is the subject. ´a person´ is the object. So we use the -dik participle because it is not a future situation:

 

"Tanımadığım biri dün öldü."

 

Example 3:

"I received the book that you have send."

Relative clause: the book that you have send (think as "You have send a book.")

Verb in relative clause: to send

Subject of relative clause : you

Object of relative clause: book

 

The noun that is described in the raltive clause is the object of the relative clause. Therefore we use -dik participle:

Gönderdiğin kitabı aldım.

 

Example 4:

I have seen the car that you will buy.

Here the car is described as "the car that you will buy". This is our relative clause. Although the verb in the main sentence "seen" is not future tense, we use the -ecek because the verb in the relative clause is about a future situation and at the same time "you will buy the car" has the car as object. So -ecek is used.

 

This is only the half of the topic. So far we saw verbal adjective clauses. There are also verbal adverb clauses with the same suffixes. Examples: 1. İstanbul´a geldiğinde beni ara. 2. Hasta olduğum için işe gidemedim.

 

I don´t suggest to anybody to study these topics in detail. You will not learn it that way. When you need to build a sentence still you won´t be able to. My suggestion is, that you learn enough grammar to know roughly what is what and then read a lot.

Moha-ios, lana- and sf melek liked this message
4.       si++
3785 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 10:04 am

 

Quoting erdinc

Here are a few examples:

 

1. the places where we have been : gittiğimiz yerler

 

the places where we have been : gittiğimiz yerler

the places where we have been : gittiğimiz yerler

 

Now the tricky part: Personal pronouns correspond to possessive suffixes in Turkish (-dik and -ecek specific)

the places where I have been : gittiğim yerler

the places where you have been : gittiğin yerler

the places where he/she has been : gittiği yerler

the places where we have been : gittiğimiz yerler

the places where you have been : gittiğiniz yerler

the places where they have been : gittikleri yerler

 

So:

the places where we have been : gittiğimiz yerler

 

You can also add personal pronouns (with genitive suffix) in Turkish examples but meaning differs a bit.

the places where I have been : benim gittiğim yerler

the places where YOU have been : senin gittiğin yerler

the places where HE/SHE has been : onun gittiği yerler

the places where WE have been : bizim gittiğimiz yerler

the places where YOU have been : sizin gittiğiniz yerler

the places where THEY have been : onların gittikleri yerler

 

lana- and sf melek liked this message
5.       pmitride
47 posts
 19 Aug 2008 Tue 02:44 pm

 

Quoting erdinc

This is an advanced topic. It would take pages to cover all the details. I will give a very short summary.

 

These suffixes are used instead the relative pronouns ´who´, ´that´, ´whom´, ´where´. Here are a few examples:

 

1. the places where we have been : gittiğimiz yerler

2. the dog that barks : havlayan köpek

3. the car which broke down : bozulan araba

4. the man who just run away  : az önce kaçıp giden adam

 

Let´s take sentence three and look closer. To brake down is something that happaned to the car. It is a description or feature of the car.  The pronoun ´which´ is connecting this feature to the car. Since we don´t have this pronoun In Turkish, we add a suffix to the verb. I think now you have an idea about when to use these participle suffixes.

 

-en is the noun participle. -dik is the past tense participle. And -ecek is the future tense participle. But these participles are not limited to any tense. They are timeless.

 

One thing that is easy about this topic is that the verbal adjective (the word that takes the suffix) is always before the noun it modifies.

 

You also wanted to know how to decide which one to use. This is a detailed issue. In general:

 

a) -an, -en is used if the noun it modifies is the subject of the verb in the relative clause.

 

Example 1:

"The dog that bit me, run away."

Here the relative clause is "the dog that bit me..." The verb in the reative clause is ´to bite´. The subject of this verb is ´the dog´. "To bite" should refer to this subject. Does it? Yes, it does because to bite is a description or feature of the dog.

 "Beni ısıran köpek kaçtı".  

 

First, find the verb in the relative clause . Then find the subject of that verb. If you are describing this subject then you can only use -an, -en. The other two participles are never used that way.

 

b) Generally -dik or -ecek is used if the noun it describes is the object of the verb in the relative clause. -ecek is used if the relative clause (not the whole sentence) refers to a future situation.

 

Example 2:

"A person that I don´t know died yesterday"

First thing we do is to identify the relative clause: "A person that I don´t know ..."  You need to think this as "There is a person I don´t know". ´To know´ is the verb. ´I´ is the subject. ´a person´ is the object. So we use the -dik participle because it is not a future situation:

 

"Tanımadığım biri dün öldü."

 

Example 3:

"I received the book that you have send."

Relative clause: the book that you have send (think as "You have send a book.")

Verb in relative clause: to send

Subject of relative clause : you

Object of relative clause: book

 

The noun that is described in the raltive clause is the object of the relative clause. Therefore we use -dik participle:

Gönderdiğin kitabı aldım.

 

Example 4:

I have seen the car that you will buy.

Here the car is described as "the car that you will buy". This is our relative clause. Although the verb in the main sentence "seen" is not future tense, we use the -ecek because the verb in the relative clause is about a future situation and at the same time "you will buy the car" has the car as object. So -ecek is used.

 

This is only the half of the topic. So far we saw verbal adjective clauses. There are also verbal adverb clauses with the same suffixes. Examples: 1. İstanbul´a geldiğinde beni ara. 2. Hasta olduğum için işe gidemedim.

 

I don´t suggest to anybody to study these topics in detail. You will not learn it that way. When you need to build a sentence still you won´t be able to. My suggestion is, that you learn enough grammar to know roughly what is what and then read a lot.

 

 

Now that I´ve found those useful threads I have a little comment about what you wrote here "I don´t suggest to anybody to study these topics in detail. You will not learn it that way."

 

I speak a few languages and I´m only 2 months into Turkish, so I can tell you that when you´re a learner, you want two things :

1/ to communicate orally or in writing with other people as soon as possible

2/ to read the press, articles, books asap

 

 

I´m working hard on grammar to do 1/ and I hope to go to Turkey soon in order to practice, but in the meantime, I only have the great TC forum and I´m trying to read articles online for 2/.

And this is where all the examples and explanations you gave are extremely useful.

 

So, I would encourage you (when you have the time of course, thank you for helping us all) to keep writing those advanced detailed topics because the articles I try to read are full of those (-dik, -ecek, -en) adjectives and adverb forms. Often, even with a good dictionary, I find that I´m lacking those little examples that would allow me to understand the pattern and make sense of a sentence.

 

teşekkürler

 

Pascal

6.       Ytchan
4 posts
 24 Aug 2008 Sun 09:59 pm

Thank you very much CANLI and ERDINC for the explanation.  Now it´s clear in my head. {#lang_emotions_bigsmile}

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