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the killing continues, GAZA
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510.       CANLI
5084 posts
 09 Mar 2009 Mon 04:23 am

 

Quoting TheAenigma

I was very interested to see the low levels of aid from muslim countries.  During the tsunami, the reason for their lack of assistance was Islam - they do not want to donate money in case any part of it assists non-mulims (even non-muslim children), but I don´t understand what the problem is THIS time

 

Two examples of questions and answers on IslamOnline at the time, begger belief:

 

Name Mary -

Profession

Question It is permissible for us, as Muslims, to make du`aa’ for those human beings afflicted there even if those people include Muslims and non-Muslims?

 

Answer In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Thank you.

There is no harm or prohibition to pray for those people who lost their lives in that natural disaster. However, your beloved Muslim brothers and sisters deserve more and more of prayers and du´aa’. They deserve your moral and financial assistances. You should share their sorrow and difficult time and do invoke Allah to accept them among the Shuhada’ or martyrs on the day of Judgment.

You can also read:

Du`aa’: Worship and Resort of the Helpless

Helping Disaster Victims (Special File)

Allah Almighty knows best.

 

Name Hakim -

Profession

Question Can we give those afflicted people a portion of our zakah money even if they are non-Muslims? How about giving them charity?

Answer In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Thank you. The receivers of Zakah money are clearly mentioned in the Qur´an. Among them, the poor and needy people. Looking at the situation of those people who are afflicted, one can conclude that the Muslims among them fall under the category of needy people.

In this regard, those Muslims deserve to receive a portion of Zakah. As for non-Muslims, they might deserve donation or any other form of assistance but not Zakah.

Thus, Zakah should be given to poor and needy Muslims. Some non-Muslims may receive a portion of Zakah if there is hope that by giving them Zakah that might lead to their conversion into Islam. They would be then considered under the category of mu´allafati qulubuhun or those whose hearts are inclined to accept Islam.

 

 The answer here is very much clear AE, even its in your post too.

As you see, they are talking about Zakah.

Zakah is one of the 5 concept of Ýslam, where Muslims are OBLÝGED to give part of their own money to the poor.

That part is set, determined with some calculations, and conditions too.

The people who receive Zakah are also categorised, not every muslim fit to receive Zakah.

But also only Muslims receive Zakah no one else.

As alameda said, i maybe responsible of supporting member of the family, but not responsible to support neighbour for example.

But that doesnt mean, i cant help neighbour from other money than Zakah.

 

Meaning, if this year i should be giving 500 $ as Zakah ´after calculations´, im OBLÝGED to give that sum this year and not a penny less, and also must be giving it through that year not a day after.

The people who would receive that money as i said have some conditions but first they MUST be muslims.

Ýf there is a crises, and i want to donate money to help people ´non muslims or muslims doesnt matter´ , i can do that of course with any sum of money i wish to help, BUT other than that 500$ Zakah

Ýn Ýslam that called Sadakah, and Sadakah doesnt have condition except helping people, any people.

The people in your post wanted to take from the Zakah money and help people not under the Zakah conditions, and want to consider it Zakah...it wont be Zakah, it will be Sadakah, and they can do it of course, but that also would mean they still have to pay their Zakah.

 

Ý hope i was clear in my explanation.

 

Ýts something like internal social system, made so muslims help one another in the society.

So we pay it according to its conditions, and if we want to pay sadakah, we also can do it and we will be rewarded for that too.



Edited (3/9/2009) by CANLI

511.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Mar 2009 Mon 07:24 am

 

Quoting TheAenigma

Quoting peacetrain

I´m only going to comment on what I witness myself.  In school, 50% of our children are Muslim, from India, Pakistan, Kenya, Iraq, Iran, Croatia and Serbia. 

 

Yep, that just about sums the UK up! lol  

 Please clarify. In what way does it sum up the UK?

 



Edited (3/9/2009) by peacetrain [the quotes aren´t shown when I add a comment !!!!??????]
Edited (3/9/2009) by peacetrain
Edited (3/9/2009) by peacetrain

512.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Mar 2009 Mon 07:34 am

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 The answer here is very much clear AE, even its in your post too.

As you see, they are talking about Zakah.

Zakah is one of the 5 concept of Ýslam, where Muslims are OBLÝGED to give part of their own money to the poor.

That part is set, determined with some calculations, and conditions too.

The people who receive Zakah are also categorised, not every muslim fit to receive Zakah.

But also only Muslims receive Zakah no one else.

As alameda said, i maybe responsible of supporting member of the family, but not responsible to support neighbour for example.

But that doesnt mean, i cant help neighbour from other money than Zakah.

 

Meaning, if this year i should be giving 500 $ as Zakah ´after calculations´, im OBLÝGED to give that sum this year and not a penny less, and also must be giving it through that year not a day after.

The people who would receive that money as i said have some conditions but first they MUST be muslims.

Ýf there is a crises, and i want to donate money to help people ´non muslims or muslims doesnt matter´ , i can do that of course with any sum of money i wish to help, BUT other than that 500$ Zakah

Ýn Ýslam that called Sadakah, and Sadakah doesnt have condition except helping people, any people.

The people in your post wanted to take from the Zakah money and help people not under the Zakah conditions, and want to consider it Zakah...it wont be Zakah, it will be Sadakah, and they can do it of course, but that also would mean they still have to pay their Zakah.

 

Ý hope i was clear in my explanation.

 

Ýts something like internal social system, made so muslims help one another in the society.

So we pay it according to its conditions, and if we want to pay sadakah, we also can do it and we will be rewarded for that too.

 

 You are more patient and gracious than I Canli .

 

513.       peacetrain
1905 posts
 09 Mar 2009 Mon 08:54 am

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 

I am not your judge, but if you declare "I am a muslim" I wonder why you then declare that you bend your religion´s rules?   

At least Alameda defends her religion - you just want to be all things to everyone!

 

 I don´t believe I gave any example of rule bending.  I gave you an example of how Muslims donate to the wider community, in my experience, which I suppose was my way of defending.  But actually, I have no need to defend Islam to anyone, let alone you.  You can tie yourself in knots, skimming websites for surface knowledge in order to try and score points but it doesn´t matter a jot.  If you want to ridicule people for their beliefs, go ahead.  It says more about you as a person than anything else you might want it to say.  You have your belief or not as the case may be and you have your causes that you are interested in, not a problem.

 

Now I suppose you will reply with a negative tirade about Islam.  You accuse people of preaching about Islam, when all they try to do is give you examples in reply to some of your posts.  It´s not preaching.  You are a more prolific  preacher than anyone here (and I know how proud you are of that).  I think it´s actually a waste of breath for anyone to try and discuss these issues with you, because, actually you´re not really interested.  Your only aim is to ridicule. It´s also very difficult to discuss in depth here because of the nature of the medium.  Direct conversation is always much more fluid than words on a screen.  A great deal of meaning is easily lost and it´s also so time consuming.  I know you know this too.

 

I will only ever make reference to personal experience here and I will not get involved in in depth discussions about Islam, for the reasons I have stated above.  I have nothing to hide, if I had I wouldn´t declare my belief.  You can try and analyse what I say as much as you like and you can print it here, but I really am not bothered what you think because you don´t matter to me. 

 

Now I have spent too much time on you in the last few days.  You made me break one of my own personal rules!!!  {#lang_emotions_rant}     Well I guess that will keep you happy and contented for a while at least

514.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 09 Mar 2009 Mon 10:17 am

 

Quoting CANLI

 

 

 The answer here is very much clear AE, even its in your post too.

As you see, they are talking about Zakah.

Zakah is one of the 5 concept of Ýslam, where Muslims are OBLÝGED to give part of their own money to the poor.

That part is set, determined with some calculations, and conditions too.

The people who receive Zakah are also categorised, not every muslim fit to receive Zakah.

But also only Muslims receive Zakah no one else.

As alameda said, i maybe responsible of supporting member of the family, but not responsible to support neighbour for example.

But that doesnt mean, i cant help neighbour from other money than Zakah.

 

Meaning, if this year i should be giving 500 $ as Zakah ´after calculations´, im OBLÝGED to give that sum this year and not a penny less, and also must be giving it through that year not a day after.

The people who would receive that money as i said have some conditions but first they MUST be muslims.

Ýf there is a crises, and i want to donate money to help people ´non muslims or muslims doesnt matter´ , i can do that of course with any sum of money i wish to help, BUT other than that 500$ Zakah

Ýn Ýslam that called Sadakah, and Sadakah doesnt have condition except helping people, any people.

The people in your post wanted to take from the Zakah money and help people not under the Zakah conditions, and want to consider it Zakah...it wont be Zakah, it will be Sadakah, and they can do it of course, but that also would mean they still have to pay their Zakah.

 

Ý hope i was clear in my explanation.

 

Ýts something like internal social system, made so muslims help one another in the society.

So we pay it according to its conditions, and if we want to pay sadakah, we also can do it and we will be rewarded for that too.

 

Canli thank you for you very patient answer   Actually (of course) what you say is almost completely right.  May I just correct you on one point about your religion?  You made the comment that only muslims are allowed to receive Zakah.  In fact, you are allowed to give non-musilms Zakah in an emergency, where the matter is life or death.  However, the culture remains "we don´t give money to non-muslims, only our Islam family", as Alameda was happy to declare!

 

Despite Peacetrain´s concerns that I am trying to attack Islam, I am actually not.  I am just amazed at how little many muslims (even fervent converted ones!) know about their own religion!  It is a shame that so many take on the antiquated practises of other cultures and think it is part of Islam. I can understand why men would want to keep the status quo, but I do wonder about the women!    For example, ask any Professor of Islamic Studies what the meaning of obeying your husband is and they will reply that it is symbolic and not relevent to modern times.  It is only of significance in prayer.  However, ask many muslim men of its meaning, and you will get a completely different answer

 

Even dear Peacetrain had to wait until she received the comfort of your back-up before replying - mostly with just psychological assumptions about me   Anyway she will need to calm down after all her huffing and puffing ...



Edited (3/9/2009) by TheAenigma
Edited (3/9/2009) by TheAenigma
Edited (3/9/2009) by TheAenigma
Edited (3/9/2009) by TheAenigma
Edited (3/9/2009) by TheAenigma

515.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 09 Mar 2009 Mon 11:02 am

 

Quoting peacetrain

 

 

 I don´t believe I gave any example of rule bending.  I gave you an example of how Muslims donate to the wider community, in my experience, which I suppose was my way of defending.  But actually, I have no need to defend Islam to anyone, let alone you.  You can tie yourself in knots, skimming websites for surface knowledge in order to try and score points but it doesn´t matter a jot.  If you want to ridicule people for their beliefs, go ahead.  It says more about you as a person than anything else you might want it to say.  You have your belief or not as the case may be and you have your causes that you are interested in, not a problem.

 

 Yes I ridicule people for their "beliefs" because you are all following distorted versions and have man made practises.  No religion seems to agree within itself.  You call yourselves "family" but all have varying degrees of understanding of the same religion - you mix antiquated cultural practises with religious ones, you cannot agree on any aspect in fact, until you are attacked and then you become a big "family"!  Religion, and your interpretation of it, depends only on the mere fact of geographical location at birth with the few exceptions of "converted" ones like you. 

 

Ask a simple question about a particular religion and you may get 100s of different replies.  An intellectural will have a different answer to an uneducated one.  A Saudi will have a different view to a Turk..... and so it goes. 

 

How can you have faith, when you have no clear understanding or agreement?  You can answer "but my faith is private and personal to me".  It is not - it affects the whole world...



Edited (3/9/2009) by TheAenigma
Edited (3/9/2009) by TheAenigma

516.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 09 Mar 2009 Mon 12:45 pm

 

Quoting peacetrain

 

 

 You are more patient and gracious than I Canli .

 

 

 And more knowledgeable

517.       chiko
135 posts
 09 Mar 2009 Mon 12:53 pm

 

Quoting TheAenigma

 

 

Despite Peacetrain´s concerns that I am trying to attack Islam, I am actually not.  I am just amazed at how little many muslims (even fervent converted ones!) know about their own religion!  It is a shame that so many take on the antiquated practises of other cultures and think it is part of Islam. I can understand why men would want to keep the status quo, but I do wonder about the women!    For example, ask any Professor of Islamic Studies what the meaning of obeying your husband is and they will reply that it is symbolic and not relevent to modern times.  It is only of significance in prayer.  However, ask many muslim men of its meaning, and you will get a completely different answer

 

 

+ 10000 very true, and it is sad that the ones who know very little about their own religion have ruled Islam world

 

518.       femmeous
2642 posts
 09 Mar 2009 Mon 12:59 pm

 

Quoting chiko

 

 

+ 10000 very true, and it is sad that the ones who know very little about their own religion have ruled Islam world

 

 

they are copies of mohammad. they love mohammad so much that they are acting exactly like him.

519.       TheAenigma
5001 posts
 09 Mar 2009 Mon 01:05 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 

 

they are copies of mohammad. they love mohammad so much that they are acting exactly like him.

 

 Not a nice comment.... thread will just be locked now {#lang_emotions_head_bang}

520.       chiko
135 posts
 09 Mar 2009 Mon 01:19 pm

 

Quoting femmeous

 

 

they are copies of mohammad. they love mohammad so much that they are acting exactly like him.

 

i thought you were a clever woman

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