Seems it is essential to you to argue with me about anything even with no base to start with !

When i say sun rise from the East you argue that too as long as i am the one who said it.

Well, fine argue...but alone !

You never been to my country, you never lived there, you absolutely have no idea about what you are talking about but of course as usual that never stop you!

Ý stated the problem as it is in my community, i didnt cover it up as you said, no one asked me if we have it or not, and also i offered the solution as i see it .

Ý havent seen that you have said anything positive or productive, as usual your post contains criticism to others you did not come up with any opinion or idea that anyone can read and say...ohh yes that i/we can do !

Btw, my government isnt an islamic government ´and if it was that is not something that i would feel bad about ´ ,and i sure can get the law fragments about the killing

Honor killing ÝS a killing which is the defined by law as The act of terminating a life´murder´ and treated like one ´surprised?´

So sure i can get that material...but i wont...doesnt worth the time !

While what Ms. Fernea has to say is interesting, if one wants a view of Islamic Feminism, why depend on the views of an outsider? I like to read Riffat Hassan.....

"What I will say may surprise both Muslims who "know" women´s place and non-Muslims who "know" what Islam means for women. It is this: I am a Muslim, a theologian, and a women´s rights activist, and while I am critical in a number of ways of the life that most Muslim societies offer to women, twenty years of theological study, as well as my own deepest faith, convince me that in real Islam, the Islam of the Qur´an, women and men are equals. Liberating ideas lie at the heart of most enduring faiths, and Islam shares in these. Two themes in particular strike me as being of the highest importance. The first is the fundamental equality of humans before God. The other is religion´s revolutionary aim of hu"man liberation. From religion should come freedom to seek understanding of the will of God and life´s purpose, and freedom to honor God´s creation through self-development and striving toward God´s ends."

 Alameda, the quote is helpful, but I have to take issue with the phrase "dpeend on the views of an outsider." Please read the review in full, and then read the book too. The very point of Professor Fernea´s book is she doesn´t give her own views. She gives a voice to muslim women, like the one you quote. This is why the book is so powerful ... it also is very challenging of western preconceptions.

Incidentally, I also mention in the review that Fernea got criticism from other academics precisely because she did not try to weave in her own views: she quotes almost exclusively from the women she interviewed first hand.

 I agree, perhaps my phrase, "outsider" was too harsh for Professor Fernea, however, I don´t believe she is actually an Islamic scholar like Dr. Hassan, who reads writes and speaks classical Arabic, has an amazing knowledge of the Quran, and Hadiths and can document where things went astray, and explain things very clearly.

I respect Professor Fernea´s work a great deal, but after all is said and done, she is not an Islamic scholar, or a Muslim woman thus her research is from the view of those she has interviewed, who may or may not be knowledgeable on the actual facts.  I did read the whole review, and have followed her writings for a while now. I must admit to not actually reading any of her books all the way through. They are on top of my list of books to read some day.

As the title of this thread is In Search of Islamic Feminism, I was seeking to add to that topic from another angle.

I have spent time in North Africa and Turkey and spent extensive time with Muslims from a wide variety of countries, from North Africa, Turkey, Afghanistan, Saudi, many times I was told this and that were forbidden, when on actual investigation, I found that was not the case, but rather their unique cultural and uneducated version of things.

It is interesting to note that Western women are seen as almost a third sex, and the rules are applied to them in a more libeal manner, even if they adopt Islam.