Thank you Trudy for this post, I´m going to look for the book, it definitely sounds very interesting.

What you wrote about people being surprised when visiting Turkey reminded me about another book I´ve read, "The Tales from the Expat Harem"which is a collection of writings about life in Turkey from the perspective of foreign women who settled there.

Trudy. I totally agree ... for example read my review about Ayþe Onal´s Honour Killings.

But read the 2 paragraphs I wrote together: they are talking about dress. People who haven´t been to Turkey think either the women will be like afghans under the Taliban OR the other end of the spectrum: sex objects as belly dancers. Normal dress challenges their preconceptions.

That is the whole point of Elizabeth Warnock Fernea´s book: "No preconceptions, please, let the muslim women explain in their own words what they think and want". She actually comes to the conclusion, after doing very detailed research, that many muslim women that we would view as feminists do not want to be called that, because to them feminism has negative connotations from what they see of the west.

I think you would enjoy reading this book ....

Each of these is a far cry from feminism. But if we think a bit deeper we may remember television reports of women under the Taliban organizing secret home schools to teach girls to read and write, and recall the names and faces of female leaders in the Islamic world.

......

Often my Western visitors ask me if Turkish women are oppressed. Their preconceptions are challenged when they see women wearing Western clothes, and often they are challenged to rethink their ideas. I hear from my guests that they thought that women in all Islamic countries were oppressed and undervalued. They are pleasantly surprised when they visit Turkey.

Read more: http://www.sundayszaman.com/sunday/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=165642

***********

Especially the last quoted paragraph got my attention: as if being oppressed or not is only depending on Western or non-Western clothing! Yes, I know that in different countries there are different ´types´ of Islam but to say that because of the clothing women in Turkey are not oppressed.... Tell that to all the girls who can´t go to school because there is no school nearby or whose parents doesn´t allow her to, tell that to the girls ´waiting´ to be married off - often for quite an amount of money, tell that to the girls who are threatened with ´honor´-revenge, for whom is no shelter after they run away from home because the government did not want to subsidize that shelter anymore, etcetera, etcera.

And no, don´t tell me it are only Kurds who do this, don´t tell me it is all them to blame. I know it isn´t, I have several Turkish friends (in and outside Turkey), from all over the country. Nice people but when talking about daughters they find it just very normal that the patents ´own´ their daughter! A mature country, a mature government takes responsibility for all its citizens and if there are groups/persons endangered the government should take action, should protect them. To me stopping honor killing is much, much more important to spend governmental money on than on a new highway or railroad! The latter are prestige objects, the former often cases of life or death.

 A mature country, a mature government takes responsibility for all its citizens and if there are groups/persons endangered the government should take action, should protect them. To me stopping honor killing is much, much more important to spend governmental money on than on a new highway or railroad! The latter are prestige objects, the former often cases of life or death.

But its not that easy, government cant do it alone

i agree. but goverment should initiate actions, make a severe punishment for the culprints, should conduct tv shows, should talk about and NOT sweep under the carpets.

Here we still have this problem mainly in villages and the areas where the percentage of education is low.

strange that you put a blame on poor villagers. you always find a scape goat. and you pay no attention to that its your (muslim) govs idea to keep villagers uneducated and primitive. because if they get educated they will stop obeying idiots in the gov.

and one thing i notice is that you make a difference between villagers and yourself, as if you are more civilised. the fact that you condone arranged marriages due to which many women commit suicide stands to your own backwardness.

Honor killing is prohibited its a killing and treated same as killing by the low

But in those places or mentality you would find that the whole family agree on such action, support it and try to keep it away from the eyes of law

where it says its prohibited? can you produce any law fragments?

When they caught, they go to jail or sentence to death according to their role in the murder.

its very rare, in fact most of them get away.

And its not even different from religion to another...both Muslims and Christians from that criteria do it.

ah, you poor, you again generalise? smuggling into one bag? you know it well that mostly it happens in muslim communities. i reckon more than 90%.

So i believe the solution would be to try to change those people mentality

lets start from yours, because when you change - they will change

And this would be by education...make the primary education is a must for boys and girls and who doesnt allow his children to school should be arrested.

we should arrest your gov.

And in holy places ´mosques, Churches..etc let the Ýmam, priests in Cuma and sunday pray make stress on the sinful of the honor killing so even people who are not educated and above the age can start questions their Traditions.

...

 Seems it is essential to you to argue with me about anything even with no base to start with !

you are free to ignore me, canli, im not forcing you to respond me. you are so strange you behave as if i were flirting you

When i say sun rise from the East you argue that too as long as i am the one who said it.

Well, fine argue...but alone !

You never been to my country, you never lived there, you absolutely have no idea about what you are talking about but of course as usual that never stop you!

that doesnt prove anything. i have never been to antarctica (im not going either) but i know there are lots penguins and no polar bears and its very very cold. 

Ý stated the problem as it is in my community, i didnt cover it up as you said, no one asked me if we have it or not, and also i offered the solution as i see it .

Ý havent seen that you have said anything positive or productive, as usual your post contains criticism to others you did not come up with any opinion or idea that anyone can read and say...ohh yes that i/we can do !

canli, i always give some soluition suggestions, but you dont see them, because you are ignorant.

i too see nothing positive and productive in your posts, but i see lots of hatred and accusation of those who are not muslim.

Btw, my government isnt an islamic government ´

btw i never said this, i said in general your muslim govs. you love twisting my words.

and if it was that is not something that i would feel bad about ´

yeah yeah shariah is something to be proud of.

yes islamic govs are the best, saudis are an excellent example. somalia or sudan is just wonderful, not mentioning many other islamic paradises.

 ,and i sure can get the law fragments about the killing

Honor killing ÝS a killing which is the defined by law as The act of terminating a life´murder´ and treated like one ´surprised?´

So sure i can get that material...but i wont...doesnt worth the time !

no comment in here, its a waste of time. those who read this will know why.

While what Ms. Fernea has to say is interesting, if one wants a view of Islamic Feminism, why depend on the views of an outsider? I like to read Riffat Hassan.....

"What I will say may surprise both Muslims who "know" women´s place and non-Muslims who "know" what Islam means for women. It is this: I am a Muslim, a theologian, and a women´s rights activist, and while I am critical in a number of ways of the life that most Muslim societies offer to women, twenty years of theological study, as well as my own deepest faith, convince me that in real Islam, the Islam of the Qur´an, women and men are equals. Liberating ideas lie at the heart of most enduring faiths, and Islam shares in these. Two themes in particular strike me as being of the highest importance. The first is the fundamental equality of humans before God. The other is religion´s revolutionary aim of hu"man liberation. From religion should come freedom to seek understanding of the will of God and life´s purpose, and freedom to honor God´s creation through self-development and striving toward God´s ends."

 Alameda, the quote is helpful, but I have to take issue with the phrase "dpeend on the views of an outsider." Please read the review in full, and then read the book too. The very point of Professor Fernea´s book is she doesn´t give her own views. She gives a voice to muslim women, like the one you quote. This is why the book is so powerful ... it also is very challenging of western preconceptions.

Incidentally, I also mention in the review that Fernea got criticism from other academics precisely because she did not try to weave in her own views: she quotes almost exclusively from the women she interviewed first hand.