Ok, I think we´re finally agreeing here. True, I was referring more to forced marriages than arranged ones. If you google Wikipaedia you´ll see that arranged marriages are arranged by parents, match-makers or matrimonial offices. No problems here, as long as it is the bride and groom who have the last word at the end of the day, it doesn´t matter how they get to know each other.

What I cannot understand is why the notion of romantic love is discredited by you. I am not a very romantic person myself but most people I know married because they fell in love with each other. Romeo and Juliette were 13 or thereabouts so no wonder they were not emotionally mature to have a relationship. Plus, it´s fiction Let´s get back to reality, I´ll give you an example of how things are with my friends. I´m 30 and I there were 28 people in my class in secondary school (we don´t have classes to pick individually, we choose a group and have all classes together for 4 years). So, there were 28 people, 20 f and 8 m. The statistics are as follows:

2f live in a long-term relationship

1m and 2 f are single

1m is divorced

the rest are happily married

2 have 2 children

6 have 1 child

All those who got married married out of love. It seems it´s not such a bad base after all. I think you´re mixing up naivety with love. Love comes in phases, first it overwhelms you but you don´t make lifetime decisions at that phase. Once it becomes not so wild you may consider marriage. Most of the people I know have similar attitude towards marriage - love, getting to know each other for some time and then marry if at all. I doubt that what you choose is worse than what your parents choose. I wouldn´t trust my parents to buy me clothes, let alone choose a husband

ha... )))))))))))))))))))))))

we just heard something from someone that you suffer greatly... Usually we do not have orcible arguments. We know almost nothing about your daily life, your rights, obligations etc. Western women differ as well in fact. I completely agree with Daydreammer and her answer. Though, all these things inhere to majority of countries. We all came from one background, some are closer to the source, some farther. Thus, some in the West ( ) see more of the same in their countries, some - less. Some have gotten so many new rights and possibilities that are lost and do not know how and what for to use them. Too much freedom and no skills to use.

though, your question is WHY. Because we learnt our well-being, prosperity, happiness by comparing to others (mislim in this case). Comparison is widely used tool to make things more clear (use of visual methods). We got some information from different sources, felt happy that we were all set (before we could have opposite opinion). Later we adopted that as Truth (and even do not try to say that you are not suffering - we won´t believe, because we know better. why better? because we live in better organized world on the top of social evolution and our vision is better, wider and clearer). Just several had enough interest, will and patience to study the subject more and see the reality. But there are few such people, and we do not hear their voices and still believe the info of the age of Crusades.

We are already formed by different rules of living and we really can not understand where the difference between one covering and not covering her head is. People are always afraid of what they do not understand. So, it is easier to say that your style is not right and of course you are suffering, because we all tend to freedom.

happy marriage is matter of luck. You may marry in a month and live long and happy life together in mutual respect. You may marry after years of knowing each other and feel urge to divorce after month of being married.
We choose our friends (we understand that they are not for other 50 years to come) and we are mistaken in people.
We hire people (we understand that we can fire them at last), we study resumes and arrange interviews, and we still do our mistakes hiring wrong workers. By the way successful companies in the field of direct marketing do not let people switch groups and managers. They suppose we can build good and productive relations with everyone and anyone. We should just want it.
Studies shows that those who had more "trials" ( partners) would have less chances to find right one and stop. Trials are not guarantee of knowing other sex better, finding better person, better understanding of yourself. Maybe because you cannot stay tuned to other person deep enough.
I know only one person whose marriage was arranged and her marriage was happy. Have you ever noticed that when getting older we understand our parents better? Maybe because they already were there, where we were just going to? They knew the result? Of course we all need our own mistakes, decisions and lessons in this life. Though, I am very happy that i did not do everything i wanted while being 15. And it is part of me now. No matter what we did or did not, all those became part of us.
Romeo was the MAN at his age. People died at their 40th then. He was grown already, both physically and emotionally - it was part of evolution. Since that world became more complicated and nowadays kids of 13 are still kids. They are definitely taller, differently clever and developed, but are kids. Somehow we think that everything was so nice and clean in the past centuries. I am more than sure that his socks had some odor (if he ever had socks...), that he did not use perspirants and shave his armpits, that he ran to kiss Juliette after sweaty fights and thought of shower never crossed his mind.
Remember Barbara Streisand? We feel disappointment in real love because when we kiss each other there is no romantic music at backyard... Remember Natasha Rostova in War and Peace? She was touchingly romantic and then married to good deep thoughtful man. Who she became? Just FEMALE who was about making enough stocks for winter, watching servants etc ....
There are a lot of examples to support any point of view I think that there is enough place and space for every thing on this Earth. If it becomes useless evolution will wipe it off with time. Yes, some of us will have to fight to speed the process up, but maybe we were born just for it. If arranged marriage is getting outdated we will see it in the future. Though, as i may see it takes place in all countries – just the ownership prerogative of this subject was given to East

Very interesting message...but what on earth happened with all that code in your message?

I have seen people who have lived together for seven years or more in uncommitted relationships,  and divorced in one or two years after making committed relationships.

I wonder if having a lot of test drives doesn´t make it easier for to move on to another test drive...to find the "perfect ONE"? It seems the First World cultures are finding makiing committments more difficult.

1. I hope i solved the problem with coding - greatly appreciate the help of Lady In Red!

2. sharing room with some guy won´t teach you how to build committed relationships. people often live like room mates. they discuss things, have lunch together, make love, maybe even have kids, but still are room mates. I think we will always be lonely in the world, at the certain extent we (if lucky) have our best half, but no matter how crowded room is one´s death will still come to him/her only

living like room-mates does not require knowing ins and outs of person on other part of bed. It is not test drives. at first we drive using head, then - union of memory and customs. It saves our time and energy. We do not think the how we drive - we just drive. We may learn some new driving skills, but major ability will stay. You can not forget riding the bike. it is your skill - you got it once and forgot, it is already in you. Nevertjeless, advantage in somethig turns to disadvantage in other field. Customs, that save our time and energy, steal the freshness of perception. in relations it leads to the death of the latter.

relations are different. you are looking. in advance you know that new try will come. you are looking for the best half, your ideal candidate, but with every new try you are farther from it. You tried everything at last, got all possible experience and often fail to see the beauty of creature. it becomes more technical: you are looking for smth new (different from your previous experience: if not why you left then?!), and for all characters you liked in previous one (you were with some people for some time for smth, so there were some good sides in each of them). THough what is your chance due to theory of probability? ... answer is obvious i guess. Like drugs - the longer you get, the more you need.

you may be madly in love with man, wake in the middle of the night to thank God for putting this man on your path. this particular man with his particular  heart, mind, soul, spirit and body. To kiss him every morning and to wish sweet dreams, to talk on phone for hours despite seeing him every morning, discussing days every evening and making love every night.

and then his one single phrase will ruin everything... it will crush your own small happy world into little pieces - impossible to collect and no wish to put together.  He is still good person and you are nice, but the finest china of your greatest love ever is broken irretrievably.

you may consider sudden slipping down of wedding ring as tragedy taking you into hysteric and causing heart attack. ANd the next day you meet someone and understand that everything before this moment was not important. and taking off that ring is already so natural...

not all hearts know what the fire of Big True Love is. Some of them are quiet. They choose the partner by reputation, knowing family background and other criteria, which seem natural to them. And in several years will find themselves in deep strong love with someone who looked rather nice arrangement at he beginning.

Most of us cannot know what will be the best and only basement for our happy marriage. We may just ask God to give us wisdom before saying YES to say it to right person, and to ask God to help us to become right person for one whom we heard YES in reply.

wow, what a hot discussion, and very interesting  by the way.

Cultural boundaries and abstacles will exist forever, and may it be always, cause this is exactly that thing which makes each culture, nation, individual different from the rest and attractive.

I am kazakh, in our culture position of woman is very high, it was through all centuries, from the time we were indicated ask one of the Saks tribes. Girls are treated and equaled to flowers, and parents must give them all the best. Usually, young girls should know all about household, but when they live with parents, as a rule parents do everything for them, even regarding household, because they are supposed to have their own family, and will have enough time to deal with this stuff. But some people so fanatic, that understand everything directly, and then appears such opinion as woman should not go somewhere alone and etc.

I must say, that Islam had and have a great influencce upon our culture and history.

one of the must for all Muslims is to educate girls/dauhters. When i was little I could not understand why my parents, in particularly my father pushed us to study hard so much. he invested to our education all that he earned, he never refused for our suggestion to attend some courses, he always supported us.

In my opinion, Islam and attitude of muslims towards woman is different in various cultures and countries. Probably, I am wrong, but I guess that the rest of muslims say that they are muslims, and use islam as cover, but in fact they did not touch the core of Islam, they behave, act and live by the Isalmic rules taught by wrong people.

guess if we look at many cultures worldwide we would see similarity. Theory of all (i will use "all" taking into account that there could be exceptions of course) will cherish women as they and only they could deliver children. Men cannot, and by the way in some thousands years men will disappear. Y chromosome is losing its genes, 2/3 are already gone. I would prefer to think it is evolution and men are losing what they do not need, but X chromosome is stable.... Maybe that is the reason that nowadays men have more and more characteristics of women. Women are still longing for cool guys, but prefer marriage with tender husbands and caring fathers for future children.

Islam is the youngest among main religions. And we can compare it to a child: hot, easy to get offended, quick to follow first reaction, maximalist. Islam will change with time, it is not what i say, it is universal rule. Christianity was the same. It is also changing. I do not feel big difference between Christianity and Islam, people´s nature is the same everywhere in fact. But I will think twice before saying smth concerning Islam because i can not predict reaction in return. I would not take personal anything about my religion as i would face just believes of other person regarding it. We would have discussion, but i would never feel offended.

Though, I know that in the past my nation would feel offended, that would take anyone different as alien and treat the same. Times just changed, and today we cannot avoid globalization. It will make some universal mixed culture. I do not need to follow the rules of my nation, country and religion only, because it will prevent me from exploring the world, other people etc. I see that other people do not have my rules and live happy lives either. Thus, rules are not important. We may create any and still will find the way to be happy.

let´s get back to theory of cultures. as we know practice is far from theory. All customs and habits came from experience or believes (when we do not understand we create some explanations and here just level of our fantasy matters). So, we can say that everything we do today was expedient action in the past.
Little girl wondered why her mom every year buys big piece of meat, cuts it into two and bakes one  after another in oven for Easter eve. Mom could not give the reason: just her mom did the same. Little girl called her granny and asked the same - why?! Unfortunately, granny could not help either because she learnt it from her mother. Fortunately, the grand-grand-mother of little girl was still alive and could answer. And she said: "Honey, when i was young our family was very big and we all lived together. For Easter we needed really big piece of baked meat, but our oven was tiny and we could not bake the meat at once. Thus, we had to cut it into two and bake one after other.” Little girl lived with her parents only and was the only child, necessity is gone, but custom is still here.

It is applicable to other sides of our everyday life. Women that were deeply involved in everyday routine (washing dishes and clothes, some farmer´s duties, cooking, sewing and so on) and delivering many children (at first there was no condoms, and then many just died) did not need, for example, the right to vote. She should have her head covered or her family would find her hair in bread, she would have to wash hair often because of more dust, she could have sunstroke in wheat filed etc. She would be happy to become third wife in the world were many men died for nothing in numerous wars, or she would be unprotected and financial burden to the family of her parents etc.

Modern world is already different. Women stepped from one level to other. We do not spend time for washing dishes, we can get hair dry in 5 minutes, we choose how many children to have to leave free time for ourselves (we still can sew the clothes, though it is for pleasure, our choice). We can and need to vote because we are among those who create national produce. As woman we can be useful for the world in different and various ways.

This is the demand of today ... Demand creates supply. And maybe one generation is enough to see the new quality.

I do not believe that relationships built without love stand more chances than those built on love. Like I said, ideally two people fall in love, spend some time getting to know each other and then get married. This way seems more reasonable to me than meeting your spouse-to-be at the altar (or wherever the ceremony is)

And there´s still the issue of whether sense of duty is happiness comparable to happiness by choice. If you marry of love and are happy 20 years later it´s great. But if you marry without love and develop a sense of obligation to love your spouse only because you´re expected to then is it really happiness? How can you determine the endurance of relationship if you´re not free to leave either because of social rules or fear of not being able to cope on your own? I strongly feel it is the fact that you are free to leave but yet decide to stay ith your partner that speaks of quality of your relationship.

As for Romeo and Juliette, they might have been considered adults at their times but it doesn´t mean they were emotionally mature. Human biology hasn´t changed that much. Besides, they´re more of an argument against arranged marriages - had they been free to decide whom to marry, the tragedy wouldn´t have taken place. Social expectations killed them. And now tell me parents know what´s best for their child

I think marriage and divorce should be about free personal choices. If you love a person and you feel happy and comfortable to take a step and commit further by marrying them, regardless of their religious background, skin colour or whether it is at an earlier or later stage in your relationship, just go for it. You obviously feel that this is the right choice you´ve made at the right time.

Marriage should be an equal partnership and I believe neither of the partners should have the ´upper hand´ based on their wealth, sex or any other reasons. Words like ´obedience´ and ´owner´ should no longer be part of spousal vocabulary. They should be replaced by words like ´partners´ and ´compromise´ (which, unfortunately, is still unacceptable in some of the cultures or religions).

There are no recipes for a perfect marriage or relationship in any country, culture or religion on Earth, because, as correctly mentioned before, we all are human beings and we all do evolve and change with time. Problems and frictions in couples can some times be worked out, unfortunately, sometimes they can´t.

Divorces were hence invented to provide us with a free personal choice of not staying with the person we no longer love or feel happy with.

And for those who frown upon the word ´divorce´. Maybe this isn´t such a bad idea:

A friend who is a lawyer specialising in divorces once told me that the commitment should be called a ´marriage contract´. It should be made for a definite period of let´s say 5 years, and if we are happy and things are working out between us, we can always have the option to ´extend´. And, if we feel we no longer belong together, we just part (no painful and costly divorce procedures!).

want to know person? Divorce him!

Divorce looks logical and easy while only mind is involved. Though we usually add feelings and offended ego.

One man being in third marriage said that he realized that he could live with his first wife. In many years he realised that everything is the same.