Iraqi Kurds, Palestinians in Jordan, Pakistan and Turkey appear to be the worst offenders but media freedoms in these countries may over-compensate for the secrecy which surrounds "honour" killings in Egypt – which untruthfully claims there are none – and other Middle East nations in the Gulf and the Levant. But honour crimes long ago spread to Britain, Belgium, Russia and Canada and many other nations.

Source: here

Hardly a surprise looking at the number of immigrants of Muslim upbringing...it´s natural that wherever they go they take their ways along...it´s reprehensible but unavoidable I suppose

Yeah. So much that now Sweden Democrats fear Islamic revolution.

I, for one, would hate to see that. But I´m not really into the whole conspiracy thing and I don´t think Islam will take over secular Europe and throw us back into the Middle Ages. I think if we continue to try and educate immigrants, they (especially women) will see that western culture gives them more freedom and that religion is a private matter - practise whichever you want, but keep it away from the law. i met quite a few Muslims (both men and women) in Europe who prefer the European lifestyle.

It´s actually similar in Turkey. 99% of the people I met there were no different than Europeans as far as lifestyle or attitude to religion is concerned. It´s true, all the Turkish people I met are from big cities in the west, maybe somebody from east would be different, but I think turkey is handling religion vs the state policy quite well and no different than Europe.

There is no "maybe" but "definetely". You have only seen one face of Turkie. There is definetely the other side of the coin. The last referendum has clearly shown who´s where:

And below is the map greens are "yes", and reds are "no"

Sweden

Malmö - ~25% (NEWS) [percent of immigrants, foreign born or both parents foreign born: 36% (STAT)]
Stockholm - 20% (>155,000 of 771,038) (EUMAP) [percent of immigrants: 36% (STAT)]

Source: Muslim population in Europe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmL1UVFBm24

Here is my present to the people who are scared of those Anatolians who said YES to the constitutional amendments.

Duvara astığın o çorapların sahibi geldi 
Altına aldığın o kilimlerin sahibi geldi 
Kıro keko hırbo zonta maganda 
Kıro keko hırbo zonta maganda 

===

The owner of the village socks you hang up on the wall, has come

The owner of the authentic  kilim you sit on, has arrived.

The rest (Kıro keko hırbo zonta maganda ) are the words generically speaking  the white Turks use to insult village people, Kurdish people or the people who think they are uncultured..!!

According to that approach we can explain the increase of despicable crime rates and gangs in the UK with the Polish migrants.

I expected there to be more than one Turkey now, the question is, what should be done to make the east more like the west? I´m talking about solutions that will not require force or making people reject their regional culture.

I think crime rates in the UK was dropping down

The latest figures show some divergence between the two sources in offences

of theft from the person (e.g. pickpocketing) and bicycle theft. The BCS shows

increases in both theft from the person (25%) and bicycle theft (22%), In

contrast, thefts from the person recorded by the police fell by 12% while there

was no change in thefts of a pedal cycle.

http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs09/hosb1109summ.pdf

I have no idea about crime rate in the UK, but if it increased because of Poles, then I´m not going to argue with statistics. If Poles steal bikes and pick pockets then why should we not talk about it?

Crime happens in Poland, so, naturally, when Poles spread over Europe, the criminals followed as well. Nobody sane would think that the criminals stayed home

Honour killings happen within Muslim communities and it´s a fact. Do all Muslims speak in favour of it? No. Are all Muslims like that? No. Still it doesn´t change the fact that those who would kill a girl at home because of a vaginal membrane, will do it wherever they will go.  Mentality does not change overninght only because you moved to another country. People bring their revolting habits with them.

That´s exactly what I thought when I saw wikipedia statistics for homicide. But Oeince refers to despicable crimes (ie bike theft), not petty ordeals like murder...

More like west? Forget it. We will never be. If even Swedes are afraid of becoming like Iran, there is no hope for us. We are more likely to be next Iran than them for sure.

Theres more freedom in Iran than in any western country.

 Oh yes, you see it everyday.....Westerners being forced to flee their homelands because of government crackdrowns on their rights!   

yup, seems some people cannot stand so much freedom and move somewhere more restrictive

 Yes, I have been considering a move recently.  I have had enough of being able to criticize my country, ignore whatever religion I choose and wear whatever slutty bits I desire! 

It´s just more than a human should have to endure!!! 

DD, this comment of yours is irrevelant. Not everyone seeks a comfortable life.

If your definition of freedom limits to shouting out your rights at some governmental buildings and being able to put your pants on your head then I´ve got nothing to say, but congratulations!

 Lemon, my darling, you know I love you but this makes absolutely zero sense. 

So tell me....you say people in Iran have more freedom than westerners.......how?  What freedoms do they have? 

I have lived in Iran, I still have friends who still live in Iran.....they are not free people!!! 

Freedom doesnt have to be the way the westerners paint. The freedom you have is just an illusion. You are a system slave who is happy by being granted somewhat rights that anyway belong to you wether you want them or not.

If you, americans, are such a democracy queen then as a nation why cant you stop the war in Iraq by the freedom and rights you possess? What holds you as a nation to deal this in a "democratic" way?

You belong to the system and you will do as the system says to do.

I suppse in Iran you can do many things despite its regime. It doesnt have to be sweet and pleasant.

Lemon - you know I love you, but I would like to know what you mean by freedom? How free are you in a country like that? What can they do that we cannot and can they do everything that we do? Ahm...I don´t think so. Sure, they´re free to play their social roles in accordance witht the legal system, but so are we!

Everyone loves me today!

I havent been to Iran. Not that I defend Iran or something, but I would prefer to live among Iranians no matter how they are uncivilized or backward.

They can drive as they wish, park anywhere, sell and buy anything and anywhere etc. Theres no organised system but an organised police.

They belong to regime, and you belong to the system which in someway is a regime too.

Oh I see now. You´re an anarchist in heart!

What is a political correctness? Can I cook it and drink it?

I myself am a kazakh who come from uncivilised and a bit backward country. Whats wrong with it? Do you grade me by my level of civilization or education or ethnicity? If you do, who do you think you are? Cant be bothered. Iran is my neighbour over the sea.

Political Correctness:  A term used when the speaker is trying cover up how they REALLY feel with pretty words and fake sympathy/empathy.  You can cook/drink it.....but it will make you very sick! It´s safe to say I would never use this term to describe your posts, lemon.  

"POLITICALLY CORRECT TERMS"

Dirty Old Man: Sexually focused chronologically gifted individual.

Perverted: Sexually dysfunctional.

Serial Killer: Person with difficult-to-meet needs.

Lazy: Motivationally deficient.

Fat: Horizontally challenged.

Fail: Achieve a deficiency.

Dishonest: Ethically disoriented.

Bald: Follicularly challenged.

Clumsy: Uniquely coordinated.

Body Odor: Nondiscretionary fragrance.

Alive: Temporarily metabolically abled.

Worst: Least best.

Wrong: Differently logical.

Ugly: Cosmetically different.

Unemployed: Involuntarily leisured.

Short: Vertically challenged.

Dead: Living impaired.

Vagrant: Nonspecifically destinationed individual.

Spendthrift: Negative saver.

Drunk: Chemically inconvenienced.

Pregnant: Parasitically oppressed.

Ignorant: Knowledge-based non-possessor.

 I think this about covers it.....I"m Free!

good to see the spirit of turkishclass.com still alive and well...i miss debates...at least we can debate without fear of being jailed for offending...´t-ness´....even public spaces like bars and restaurants my ´free´ friends lower their voices and whisper their opinions as if the secret police were watching our every move and recording our words...Yes, when you are raised to say pretty much whatever you wanted about our government and then you move to a place were it can land you in jail...believe me, you learn to appreciate what you had! i love my host country but have to admit i am not as free as i was before...but i do enjoy freely looking at the bosphorus...so there are the trade´offs...no youtube but great cups of cay...life is all about the trade-offs...

 Maybe it´s getting to be time to come home? I think you actually have an illusions as to how free we actually are in the US... It is a trade off.

I love the freedoms in the US, but I am not under many delusions about my "freedoms". You have heard of Free Speech Zones, have you not? I am not free to choose to or not to eat GMO salmon, drink fluoride or in general have my body polluted with a multitude of chemicals.

I think the freedom you speak of is a thing of the past....if it ever was. Most of the world, Europeans and Turks in particular, have a much longer view of history....they have seen the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, Alexander, Napoleon....Hitler, Stalin...and many many others.

Americans, on the other hand, are incredibly naive. Have you ever heard the song The Gambler?  Discretion is always a good policy.

I can write a book about these things unfortunately

After all those years living in a different country, I am just begining to feel more relaxed when I hear police sirens. Yeas after years, when I heard of sirens, if I was on the street, I was just cheking around with  my eyes very quickly, getting alert and ready for any eventuality. 

Of course it is better now..

That´s a fair point, Alameda, about the Americans taking freedom a bit for granted, not really having memories of what life is like in a police country. Not that Americans haven´t founght for their rights, surely they have, but it´s a bit different to compare countries whose history is over a thousand years old and one that was established a few centuries ago.

I know what Handsom means talking about police sirens. I know what it feels to lose a member of the family and never have any explanation of what happened, just because paramilitary troops could beat you to a pulp and you had no right to protest.

Sure there are more than one meanings of freedom, nobody is fully free in the world. But I´d rather live in a world where I can speak my opinions than one that has no parking rules...

Fair enough Daydreamer.......it´s all your point of view.....I sort of think of it like "Freedom is just another word for nothing left to loose...."    It all depends on your perspective......if you were Amadou Diallo, Sean Bell, Oscar Grant Mumia Abu-Jamal you may have a different perspective on things. .....

Si++ but we have changed the system since It´s safe to talk about such things now

I kind of agree with this (but wish you didn´t put in all those links!!!).  Personally, I feel less and less "free" in the UK.  

"I have freedom of speech" (but because I work for a local government, I may not speak out when I see wrongdoing or money wasting within that organisation).

"I am free to do what I like" provided I can support myself and pay all my taxes and have any money left at the end of it.

"I am free to use internet without any censorship" (provided I don´t type anything which may suggest national security is at risk, then just see how quickly your "private" emails are being monitored!)  

I can walk about wherever I like (provided I accept the fact that from the smallest town to the largest city, 90% of my journey will be recorded on surveillance cameras)

Basically, you have to join rat race, the capitalist dream, the materialistic society that we have become and the more you get, the more you want.  

An interesting article from 2007 in the Times Online has a few things to say about our "free society" and "freedom of speech" in the UK too! 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2106422.ece

Sorry....force of habit I guess....but you don´t have to click on them.

I find it annoying when I get adds that are obviously designed for "me"....it lets me know they are building a profile...which I really do not like. BTW...your link hits it on the head exactly...so what will they do with all that information, what we look at where we go....and all....???? Interesting link you posted too....actually....it is like that all over now.

you are only as free, as you are free from desires.....

Yes it may be but I don´t think theh is happy with it being known publicly.

TheH and I are not related so why would he mind me talking about my second cousin murdered by communist troops? or have I misread what you wrote?

On freedom, I love the quote from The Handmaid´s Diary by Margaret Atwood "There´s more than one kind of freedmom, there´s freedom of something and freedom from something"

Regimes usually provide sort of safety as they operate with the help of brutal police force, but anyone who dreams of freedom  of expression is considered an enemy to the state. Countries respecting individual people´s freedom to speak their mind are usually less strict when it comes to penitentiary (sp?) system. Apparently criminals have their rights too.