Alpha, dear, I trust that you know more about Turkish ladies and their virtues (or lack thereof) than I do...I stand corrected!  

Is this the last trick you have?

Anyway.. I am out of here..

The hypocracy and the rudeness can stay!!

Yeah. I just want you to understand that i don´t want to talk to you at all.

But thanks God you´re gone! Please don´t come back

Actually....here is what you said.....about me....

"I think we all have been here for a long time and seen the arguments of Alameda..

Apart from supporting  all backwards and primitive behaviours and traditions which we spend almost life time fighting to change, she, even, at some stage, talked about Turkish people´s bad habbit of  not reading books as if it was a good thing!!!."

What you have done is put up unsubstantiated statements that defame my character. While it is not technically not slander...but rather libel...you have a point. However the effect is the same.

The above statement from you may be your impression, but in fact, it is not true.

Wiki has some interesting material on this matter:

Defamation—also called calumny, vilification, slander (for transitory statements), and libel (for written, broadcast, or otherwise published words)—is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, broup, government, or nation a negative image. It is usually a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed (the claimant)

In common law jurisdictions, slander refers to a malicious, false, and defamatory spoken statement or report, while libel refers to any other form of communication such as written words or images. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against groundless criticism. 

A person who destroys another´s reputation may be referred to as a famacide, defamer, or slanderer. The Latin phrase famosus libellus means a libelous writing.

I am interested in idea exchange, in fact I greatly value it. If someone does not agree with me after thoughtful discussion, so be it. However when they insist I have said what I have not, I protest.

H and Oeince,

Speak on the topic please! Or deal your bazar at the bazar.

Thank you.

Dear Alameda,

I hate to get into this but the impression most of us had in the past from your posts was as stated in DD´s last posts. You claim you never said this or that or some people twist your words but somehow there are people who share DD´s opinion on your viewpoints on certain topics.

As for the difference between arranged and forced marriages again it differs from culture to culture. DD is right. If you grow up in those cultures you will with most certainty agree to "arranged marriages". Its obvious as the bright moon on the clear night sky. So, it can be categorised as forced marriages, even though nobody holds the gun against your forehead, but the local customs do a better job than the real gun.

My own personal opinion is that nobody can change the reality in those cultures. The mentality doesnt change over the night. In Eastern countries laws and regulations dont work. This will carry on and on many years unless a revolution maybe.

Look Alamada..

It is not the first time we are arguing here.. We argued many times about the subjects ranging from women´s rights in the Turkish society; economical rights of women to the results of surveys about Turkish people (one of them was saying that - Turks dont read much- etc)

Now we have some ideas as far as opinions are concerned: Some ideas are liberal, some of them are traditional, some of them are revolutionist, some are racists, some are backwards, some are crazy etc..

I have spent my serious amount time with political ideas. Many of my friends are like that.

When we talk about women´s rights, equality in genders, women as work force,  importance of economical independence for women, buying women like buying cows for marriage, forcing them to marry someone, arranged marriages etc we have always had clear ideas about which one is backwards which one is not.. 

We,Turks, have  some backwards traditions (forced/arranged marriages, honour killings, forcing or persuading very young girls to marry, traditions associated with the religions etc),  some primitive behaviours and ideas (being xenophobic , not liking reading, accepting ultra nationalism-racism- as normal) etc.. 

We call them "backwards"!!

I spent almost my life time fightings against these backwardness.. 

You have supported some of these traditions, we/ I call backwards.

Have you not?

Ah.. You can say that some of those traditions/behaviours are not backwards!!

That is fine. You have right to do so.

But "I" call them backwards!! I have right to do so..

Where is the libel in here?

ps..Lemon.. I was not trying to argue with anyone.. I was just trying to point at the rudeness of a mod. That was all..

Well I did a lot of research on this topic. These marriages where the girls are very young are outlawed in Turkey now. If they are doing such a thing, the Turkish government is against it. I noticed it said in rural places you might find this taking practice but it is against the law. Actually Turkish women are some of the most advanced as far as rights for women are concerned. They are allowed to vote even before France had allowed women to vote. Marriages that are chosen by the parents are looked down upon today. I have questions about that picture, because her hair is showing. And Turkish women usually don´t show any hair because of their Muslim faith. In reality its a very peaceful religion and so are the people. They are a some who practice bad things. But I am from America and we have some crazy people out here too. Trust me! lol! But I have a Turkish friend who lives close to that area and he is a very kind person... The Torah is the first 5 books of the bible and the Qur´an is very loving.. and I am Christian not Muslim. But I have done my research and still continuing as well.. Thanks, Elizabeth Ross   

If you live in a conservative community where sex is considered a taboo and chances for socializing are limited you are faced with the problem of not being able to find a spouse since there is no way to spend time with them or to understand their character and to make a choice of your own based on mutual experience.

This brings forth the need for some device to initiate socially approvable relations between persons. Matchmakers perform this function. They act as a bridge between potential spouses who would not have a chance to come together. They listen to the parents of the young people to learn about their expectations. They never miss a chance to meet the potential lovers and to learn about their dreams, plans for the future and expectations from life etc. After collecting this information, they begin paving the road for a marriage. For example, if the family are after a rich husband who could offer a comfortable life for their daughter and if for example the girl is undecided, they sometimes try to persuade both the family and the girl to consider a boy for his decency and good manners. They do this in weeks, months sometimes. When the family finally consents, these two meet and see for themselves whether there is chemistry between them. 

I would not recommend this system to anyone living in a society where it is possible for people to socialize with the other sex. Nevertheless, I can´t say arranged marriages are bad or they must be banned or looked down on. Complete with all the mechanisms that evolved with it, it is a solution provided by the inner dynamics of society and has stood against the test of time quite well. This happens in modern society too. If you are shy, a friend may help you. You may not be particularly shy but love might have struck you hard. Then again you may need the help of a friend to arrange some matters for you.

A typical mistake we make when thinking about the world is idealizing it. The world has some 195 countries. Of this, a mere 8 nations are qualified to be the members of the G8 Group. There are G20´s and tens of developing countries that trail behind them. There is also poverty in much of Asia, Africa and Latin America. Poverty still lingers on in countries like Turkey and Russia. 

In this world, the poor starve, the deprived is oppressed and the rich point their fingers at them. Don´t do this. Try to put yourself in their shoes whether as a parent or as a child. What could you change? Everyone will live their destiny, people´s destinies are created by other people both inside and outside.

Hey man. You sound like Captain America.

Thanks Lemon - that was my point exactly! I suppose Alameda prefers to trust dictionaries rather than observe how theory works in practice. Of course I am aware of the theoretical difference between a forced and arranged marriage! But what do you call marriages that the bride does not object to as she has no other option? She cannot meet her mate in any other way than through arranged marriage - not a system of dates, but marriage. Is that an arranged marriage? It is by dictionary definition, but do you feel like there´s free will in that? It is a forced marriage to me, forced because it´s the tradition that forces women to agree by giving them no other option.

In an ideal world, I don´t care if women look for husbands or lovers themselves, go to a matchmaker or ask their family to arrange that for them. But the world is not ideal. If arranged marriage is your ONLY choice, it is a forced marriage in the end. To have a choice you need other options. Is it so hard to understand it?

And I wonder if this really is slander or libel if I´m not the only one who found your posts promoting backwards ideas?