A 10 year old Romanian girl gave birth in Spain....her mother says it´s perfectly normal! 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11684854

Yeah, the Romani way...kids married way below the legal age of the country they live in, police can´t do anything as there´s no legal way of checking whether two people are married, girls abducted by guys who want to marry them, often not allowed to see their families ever again. I know I´m going to sound politically incorrect again, but I really think although traditions like dancing, music and language are beautiful and worth preserving, it´s time to stop barbaric Romani traditions. Human rights are human rights, closing your eyes to abducting minors and knocking them up is not keeping political correctness by the state, it´s a crime against these poor children.

Such a tragic thing.. DD canim, you are not politically incorrect by what you said, at least not in my opinion. I think this is almost as primitive behavior/tradition as we can find in today´s world, which on the positive note I guess can serve as a reminder of how far some people have changed. The most beautiful example of this change was a man I saw in an emergency room who had a purple ribbon on his shirt, as a sign of domestic violence awareness.

I think it is politically incorrect to express anything but disgust and revulsion toward a mother who will allow a 10 year old to become pregnant.  

As much as I agree with Elizabeth´s comment, what I´m not so sure about is why this case has been thown so much into the media when really, cases like this happen all the time. So sad. Kids having kids

 The question shouldn´t be why this case has been thrown into the media it should be why haven´t the others! 

In the report on BBC yesterday they were interviewing people who were saying that people shouldn´t be upset by this....it´s a cultural issue.  That argument always seems to be thrown about when an act cannot be adequately defended. 

Yes, perhaps in the dark ages it was acceptable for children to marry and procreate but these are not the dark ages!  People have evolved and times have changed and this type of case is not only unacceptable in modern times.....it is criminal! 

My heart breaks for these children.

I find the mother´s attitude very disturbing.  There is something very very wrong with this woman!

I find the "it´s a cultural issue" argument annoying. It´s not culture to have underage sex, it´s a crime in civilised societies. I wonder if a group of cannibals came to Europe and started hunting for food in the streets, would political correctness defenders justify them because of cultural issues. One may argue that since nobody outside the culture was hurt and thus it´s a inner matter of Romani people. But it´s just not true. Everybody deserves to be protected by laws of the country they are in, including Romani people. If you read interviews with Romani women, you´ll see that if they are to live a better life, the change must come from the outside. Otherwise the pattern of abuse will repeat itself

Lis - I´m not really surprised by the mother´s comment. She has been brought up to believe this is the normal way. It´s the same in all societies that give one group more privileges than another one (Islamic countries, slavery, system of castes etc). Most of the underprivilleged will never rebel against their fate as most people follow others, don´t think for themselves. Some even become advocates of barbaric traditions as it´s the only way they know and, as result, feel secure in...

When western women chained themselves to white house or got arrested for protesting in the streets, some other women were calling them crazy and considered them to ruin the only moral/rightful way where men were heads of the house and women´s job was to be a housemaker. Changes take some time...

 Totally agree. It was kind of my point/what I meant - just worded it wrong  When I say about why this one when all others haven´t, what I meant was what about all the others? You can´t just pick and choose cultural or not. Like DD said, it´s not a cultural issue, it´s an issue of underage sex - and abuse! People just use it as an excuse to justify things that cannot be contained in the right way.

Honor killings are because of cultural issues but you don´t see those cases being waved with an ignorant hand because it is by law, Murder. Just like these cases, it´s rape, it´s abuse and it´s neglect. So why are these cruel and ignorant bunch of fools (would have like to have said what I really think here) not doing sod all about it?

My guess is it´s easier not to do anything. The fact that it concerns a relatively small group only helps pretending such things don´t happen. Besides, from what i know, the Romani are a pretty hermetic group and it´s very hard to get them to cooperate. Surely, it´s not an excuse for police or courts, but I think ignoring this abhorrent phenomenon is their policy

People like not doing a sod about anything. They actually don´t think it´s a cultural issue, but it´s a nice excuse to sit on one´s behind. So much is happening around the world with young girls, but in general humanity likes to close its eyes for it.

Let´s not forget that it is not just a young girls who are victims.  The father in this particular situation is a 13 year old boy!  He is just as much a victim in this case as the girl....and their baby! 

Sure he is, GG. However it´s not his organism that has been physically worn out by pregnancy and birth. Plus, in his society he has a higher position than her. Mentally, however, the boy is done wrong beyond doubt

I ever played "doctor" when I was young. Experimenting is one thing, but it´s not natural for a 10 year old to have sex. When I was 10 I was still playing with my barbies, and was convinced all boys had flees.

 Their parents ignorance of birth control????  So are you saying it´s ok for children of this age to have sex as long as they are using birth control?!?!?  I´m sure that can´t possibly be what you meant to say.

Stumpy - I think there´s more to it than just lack of sexual education. Since it´s a Romani family the boy and the girl were probably married and had legitimate sex aimed at procreation.

As for contraception, Isle of Wight introduced a scheme with free pills for teenagers, if I´m not mistaken, which stirred up quite a controversy

Due to the fact that more and more teenagers/children are "experimenting" The question it comes down to is this, would you rather them safely doing so or dangerously doing so? As much as I don´t like to admit it, it´s got to the point (and gone past it!) a long time ago that more teenage girls are getting pregnant (and then usually left to defend for themselves) or either teenager has caught some STD at least once.

Why is it though, girls who sleep around are known as "sluts/whores" where as with guys it seems to boost there egos and makes them more of a "man"? It´s something I´ve never quite understood. In my eyes, they are both as bad as each other, after all, it takes two to tango

I mean if she gave birth at 10, then she must have had sex at 9 something. Either she has really entered the puberty very early or her age is somewhat more than it is on her identity card which is a common thing in some societies. Anyway, i cannot imagine in which conditions they are brought up as someone must have taught these children to do such a thing because at 9 I was still drinking milk from biberon.

It is not very complicated. it is something that has been developed till today since the old times. Women have been treated almost always differently than man since the old times, at least from the time of civilization. it is no wonder that it has not disappeared. It should be mostly because of the lack of birth control in the old times, which is a quiet recent thing. The mother of the offspring is always clear but the problem is the father. Unknown father or he doubt (not being sure if the biological father is the considered father), it is not hard to imagine which problems/conflicts it can cause. the sexual freedom of women has always been limited by the motherhood. with the effective birth control methods, women have somewhat earned their freedom but since over years moral and social values and culture have been structured over this handicap, it is not easy to get rid of the rooted discrimination. 

Well, other things can be said but this is how I see it.

Here is a provocative answer to your question, but do not attack me, just found it while surfing...

Busyb - I think times are changing now and a woman who has slept with a considerably large number of partners is not labelled anymore. I mean, she still might be labelled by men who fear strong, independent women who are not afraid to take care of their needs, but the society will not ostracise her (unless she livesin one of this easter countries where they stone people as a hobby). Most women I know have had a number of partners, especially those who didn´t marry young. And I don´t know even one woman who´d be a virgin on the day of her wedding.

I think a lot of women weren´t virgins when they got married 50 years ago either, but back than they lied about it Do you know how many giant "5 months babies" there are out there People got married when they found out a woman was pregnant, and I doubt they all did the virgin Mary-thing

hahaha that´s true

It is also true for Poland to be hypocritical about abortion (it is legal only if mother´s life is threatened, foetus has a terminal disease or if thepregnancy is a result of rape). Most people protesting against it are old people, most of whom had their fertility years back in the old commie days when abortion was legal. So, a huge percentage of women protesting against abortion had it themselves and now are on the anti-abortion, catholic side . We´ve a saying in Poland that point of view depends on the point where you´re sitting.

I think you can still be anti abortion and still support a womans right to have one.  I think the idea is that people want to push their views on others who may not feel the same way and that is wrong. 

I am totally against abortion (so I would never have one).  However, I would hate it if someone elses opinion was forced upon me.  The fact of the matter is women should have freedom to choose their own path, their own destiny.  It shouldn´t be shoved in their face or assumed that all women should feel a certain way about child bearing.  Men are free to walk away from a pregnancy (and they do it often in my culture) Why shouldn´t women have the same freedom? 

In any case, this young girl whether by culture or by ignorance, will never have any choices in her life.  She will forever be caught up in her circumstances and her daughter will probably share the same fate and it will go on and on and on....

It´s just sad....so very sad.

 Yes, it does seem unfair. The fact of the matter is though that it is the female who is left holding the bag, so to speak. The female anatomy is more hospitable and receptive to germs than the male anatomy is. Didn´t you know HIV is growing more in the female population than the male. The moist humid temperature is perfect for growing things other than babies.

So IOW...females are more vulnerable than males...like it or not.

I don´t agree with women being more vulnerable to diseases related to sex, to pregnancy yes. No, it´s not because I´m a feministic/hippy/complainer But there is risk for men too in being more sexually active. For example, the risk of prostate cancer goes up as men are more sexually active. Also, having good sex in a good ADULT relationship has large positive effects on both men and women. Both mentally and physically.

However you twist or turn it, there is a different standard towards both men and women that doesn´t have a base in the physical differences between the two. Perhaps it has something to do with men being scared that their wives would have babies that were from another dude, in pre-DNA times.

But the scary thing here is that two kids are being thrown into parenthood, when they should still be running around the playground of school, playing tag instead of doing the nasty in a bedroom. Bringing me back to women being more vulnerable in pregancy...if a girl has babies at such a young age, her body isn´t ready for it yet. Inside the baby can damage the girl in such a way that she can (for example) become incontinent.

Labelling stems from the stereotypes and upbringing. If you come from a community where males have more power than females, you´ll think it´s normal that men get away with more. It´s absurd to try to justify it with pseudoscientific evidence. It´s all in what we were brought up to believe.

As a general rule women are more resistant and have a longer life expectancy, so maybe, at the end of the day, they´re not as weak a sex as some would like to believe

I agree with a lot of comments on here, and I must admit, the comment about the master key that opens all locks made me laugh (though I don´t agree with life in that way).

And I suppose it does go back years and years where women were treated unfairly. From being burned/drowned etc as witches (though some men were but not nearly as much as women). From women not allowed to wear the trousers, to not being allowed to vote, or not allowed to go down certain career paths, or even being paid differently in a job. It really is a man´s world when you think about it. And I´m not being feminist by making this comment, it´s just the way it is. Which is a shame, because when given a chance when being told you can´t do something, that person (in general) seems to shine brighter at it.

Busyb - I hope you don´t mind me asking, but why are you saying you´re not being a feminist as if it was something bad? I´ve often wondered why women are so afraid of this word. According to the Oxford Dictionary, feminism is:

the advocacy of women´s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes

So, the way I see it, if you believe that men and women should have equal rights, you are a feminist. It Does not require you to be a member of the movement portrayed as a bunch of bald-shaven lesbians hating or wanting to castrate men. I love men and at the same time I think they´re no better or worse than women as a general rule. Hence I call myself a feminist.

Yes I´m aware of what it means, but there are others that don´t and for that reason or just "because" they argue about being mad feminists or that i´m saying it´s men´s fault which is an avenue I really can´t be bothered to go down. Especially when it get´s nowhere

I´m a feminist And there are enough people who have used it as a dirty word towards me, or have assumed things about my personal hygiene or appearance because I say I´m a feminist. But hey, ignorance is the hardest thing to battle It would be nice if people would pick up a dictionary once in a while, instead of linking men and women´s rights to armpit-shaving

Exactly, it´s the stereotyping that I don´t get. I imagine the lesbian-man hating feminist stereotype was created by people afraid to admit that men and women deserve the same opportunities and responsibilities.

Some people assume feminists are all about sending women to work, whether they like it or not, shouting at men for opening the door for them or not cooking because of principles. This is as ridiculous as the idea that women have to cook, be allowed first in the door or stay at home and raise children. Any imposed role is wrong, what both women and men do with their lives should be a matter of choice and compromise between two people and circumstances, not anyone else

As a feminist I also try to get more people behind the idea of men having the choice to stay at home with the kids more. You notice that some men, who have the traditional pattern in their relationships, feel like the kids are growing up without them even noticing it. They feel like they are missing out on so much. Why shouldn´t these men also have the choice to stay (part-time) at home? I´m all for patternity leave at well

 Where its written in the article "Romanian girl" ??? Or am İ blind ??? Look here the quote:

"A 10-year-old girl from Romania has....."

Those gipsies are only Romanian citizans not Romanians! Make the difference yourself!

Technically, if they are Romanian citizens, the nationality adjective is Romanian. Additionally, the said girl is a Gypsy and some of them insist on being called a politically correct term "Roma/Romani"

 Just do not confuse Romanians with Romani!

Never! that´s a huge difference. But in the article the girl was both a Romanian immigrant and a Romani, ie a gypsy from Romania living in Spain

Strange, gypsies in Poland react the same way. They blame everything on Romanians.

It´s human nature to blame everything on a group that you can identify as "different as yourself". I blame every bad thing in my life on people without attached earlobes.

Just some thoughts I have been mulling over for a few years:

I´m not sure anyone is "blaming" any group.  Have we sunk so far into political correctness that we can´t just state the obvious?  I grew up in Europe and I do know a bit about Roma people.  They are different.  They have different social norms.  Some of these norms are very shocking to some people.  Why can´t we talk about how shocking it is?  Or do we need to confine our speech about Roma to how wonderful their music is or how fascinating their culture is?  I don´t know why it is so offensive to talk about how shocking some cultural differences are? 

It is very disturbing to me that a woman who has a child thinks it is perfectly OK for this child to have a baby.  Does that make this woman horrible?  I wouldn´t venture to say whether or not she is a good or bad person...but by our social norms she is an abomination to motherhood!  Does that make me a racist?  Well, if it does then I will happily accept the title. 

As for attached earlobes....scary VERY scary!!!

I wish there was an option to thank a poster bazillion times, this is how many thanks Lis would get from me for the above.

Political correctness cannot be equivalent of silent agreement to things standing in opposition to accepted norms and/or legal system

İt happened to know a small "comunity" of gipsies living in İstanbul for many years.. for them "being married" means "living together" . Doesnt mean they went and say that "İ do..blabla" thing. And they like to steal...makes me think this is in their blood. Father steeling cigaretts and encourage his daughter and nephews to steel from Carefoor because " the owners anyway have too much money to care about this". Of course im sure that not all can be the same but...

There is a difference between seeing the problems within a group (like the Roma) and addressing them, and blaming all of your own problems on that group. As a Roma from Poland, you can´t blame all of your problems on Roma from Romania. That was what my comment was refering to. This has nothing to do with being politically correct.

Roma in Poland are not too noticeable (but for their annual international folk festival), sure there are some issues but all in all it´s not bad. I´ve heard Czech and Slovakia had terrible experience with Roma people. I remember a sudden huge surge of Romanian Roma when I was in econdary school, the streets of my city were full of begging women and children who didn´t speak Polish. And hard shoulders were full of Romanian and Bulgarian prostitutes (not Romani). Then a few years later they disappeared and beggars are Polish while hookers are mostly Ukrainian or Belarussian