Oh they removed the game? Glad to hear the problem is sorted now. Surely shops is the only way of obtaining a copy and nobody uses the Internet to go against the law...It amuses me how much people want to show they´re actually improving things by doing something that does not matter at all.

BM has a fair point: what´s next? Censorship of films and books? Increased security measures? Funny how people claiming to love their personal freedom cheer for censorship...The problem is not the game, but not educating children to showing them an alternative. Just like it´s not McDonald´s that is responsible for overweight children, eating habits are. You cannot treat all people like idiots unable to make informed choices only because somebody loses it. Can you say without doubt that if it hadn´t been for the game, he wouldn´t have done it? Yeah, I thought so.

Gokuyum, I agree people are attracted to places offering them better life, I am an immigrant myself and I do not regret it even a wee bit. The problem is when immigrants bring along the crap that made them leave their homeland first of all. When you make a decision about moving to a foreign country, you must realise you´re the one who will have to adapt as, apparently, the country functions better than yours. I am in a way glad the recent wave of riots went through Muslim countries. Maybe it´s the ease of access to information, the, as you indirectly call it, propaganda of success of the western countries, but it´s good to see people standing up for themselves against their rulers. Maybe, after all, I will live to see a major cultural shift in the Middle East and abolition of the barbaric Islamic tradition.

Si++ the right-wing politicians are doing what they can to save their face, a terrorist with right-wing tendencies may stop people from voting for right-wing politicians because of pejorative connotations. I, for one, would be happy to see a decline in the support of right-wingers, especially those extreme right ones

No matter what we discuss it eventually turns into a fight of mind-sets, political choices and cultural values.

You seem to have some sacred castles in your minds. You think books and movies must be exempt from censorship. Books and movies could actually be very important sources of inspiration for some. You don´t seem to realize, they do not harm a normal mind; the real harm is done to people with the tendencies. Moreover, books and movies can contain criminal elements; what about child porn, torture, sadism etc. I would not move a finger if somebody put the producer of the SAW sequel in prison. No matter how interesting, I would not mind if Bonnie and Clyde were never produced at all. The same goes for a number of Tarantino movies. I like them too but one must consider their influence on certain individuals.

I don´t want to ruin your holy castles but in my opinion, a well-defined censorship which is well laid out, transparent and simple enough to be understood by anyone is a necessity. This is already in place in the TV and movie sectors. Books and Video games must also be kept under scrutiny.

You would say, I sound like a conservative; well I don´t call myself one. I hate to be classified into some category and have a need to sound like a member of a certain political group. Isn´t that a kind of censorship? Can´t we think without remembering certain guidelines produced by Mr. Unknown? Luckily, I have a nihilist side which is still going strong.

I believe censorship should only go as far as rating the age of target audience rather than banning the content itself, unless the content is illegal and abusive. Just because there are mentally challenged people out there, why should everybody be deprived of entertainment? It is a bit like banning Kinder Surprise Eggs in the US because there is a toy inside and somebody decided it consitutes bigger a threat than easy access to guns.

I do agree with you that the world would do just fine without films like Saw, but I don´t feel in position to decide who should see what. After all, we can´t expect all people to watch Little House on the Prairie. The films released are censored according to individual country´s policies. Some content unavailable int he US can be seen in Europe without problems.

I wouldn´t mind sensible censorship, but it is hard to define "sensible."

You certainly have a point. Nevertheless, we must admit, no matter how advanced our societies can be, they all have structural flaws, shortcomings and persistent problems. Some of these problems may be related to our basic notions about freedoms and their limits wbich can be the subject of another lengthy discussion.

As you say, a "sensible" censorship (though these two concepts hardly fit together) might be what we are looking for.

It´s not about prohibition of the games and violent videos. It´s rather about the social acceptability of them. It´s about the fact that they have not only become socialy acceptable, but are actually preferred to other types of entertainments. What person prefers to see hideous violence that dehumanized the practicioners, what does it say about a society? 

You show your absolute contempt here, and during Ramadan too. You really don´t get it do you? I wonder just who is the barbarian here?

I have not read this guys manefesto or done any extensive research on him so I don´t know to what extent he played these games and we will never know whether or not they truely influenced him with regards to his attack.  I am just curious, if the guy was obsessed with the movie Bambi, would we be pulling that off the shelves of stores too? 

Perhaps I am being a little hard headed about this but once a government goes down the road to censorship there is little that can be done to go back. 

I didn´t read it either. I don´t want that garbage in my mind. Howevever, there is such a thing as good taste, self censorship, rather than external censorship. We (the human race) could use with a bit more self censorship & introspection as to what our values are.

There is much that is censored and there is no complaint about it. Think about it seriously, do you really thing absolutly no censorship is a good idea? 

I think we as parents can censor what our children watch because they are not mature enough to know right from wrong.  However, censoring grown people is what I have the problem with.  I think it dangerous for a government to assume that everyone will go crazy because of a video game. We will always have people who commit terrible crimes.  After 9/11, the US implemented the Patriot Act which everyone went nuts over saying that it violated our civil rights.  Maybe this isn´t exactly the same thing but it is going down the same path...in my opinion.    

I absolutely don´t have a problem with a private business not selling something because it does not conform to their values or mission. This also gives the public the opportunity to boycott a particular business if they so choose.  

Let me think...yeap, still those who mutilate girls, sentence people to death because they converted, pour acid over the face of unveiled women and marry nine-year-olds all in the name of law

After so many years, you still cannot read me properly (not that you need to). I don´t have anything against people whose religion means going to church on Sunday or mosque on Friday, eating or not particular kinds of food or praying facing any direction. I really don´t as long as they keep their religion a personal thing rather than force it upon others violently. And yes, I´ve heard it all about what the real Islam is, what is and what is not in Qran etc. Still, it doesn´t make any difference to those who treat it as the word of God and consider their bloodbath justified. I am not talking about regular crimes, I only mean those who people think they are obliged to commit because that´s how their interpret their holy book. Even more, when the whole societies become barbaric because they think it´s the way of God.

You don´t strike me as a person likely to speak in favour of the above so obviously my comment was not aimed at you

You, of course realize, what you are doing is repeating hateful Islamaphobe talking points. However saying it does not make it so. Do you think pounding out the same tired talking points over and over again will cause it to be?

I admit, it is possible some ignorant people do "in the name of XXX" as they do for other causes, and have done so with or wthout religion. Depravity knows no color lines or borders, it infects all societies. We could go on and on trading what XXX does and what ZZZ does...it does get tedious.  

Oh right, it´s better not to mention it at all, that will surely solve the problem Sorry if you´re bored by my open disgust at crimes committed in the name of religions, but I strongly feel that we need to educate societies about the black pages in religious books of their neighbours